Author Topic: German Catholics and the tax man? (Read 730 times)

Marlelar · « **on:** August 05, 2015, 01:48:52 AM »

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Germany is the richest Newchurch country in the world after the United States, but it won't be for long. A record 217,716 Germans officially cancelled their membership of Newchurch in 2014, the defections increasing by 22 per cent in just one year, from 178,805 in 2013. In contrast, a mere 2,809 people entered the Newchurch. Over 820,000 quit in the last five years and personally took the trouble to contact the tax authorities to make it official.

I took this from the Traditio website. The decline does not surprise me but my question is why do they have to let the tax authority know???

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2015, 08:36:48 AM »

Quote from: Marlelar

Quote
Germany is the richest Newchurch country in the world after the United States, but it won't be for long. A record 217,716 Germans officially cancelled their membership of Newchurch in 2014, the defections increasing by 22 per cent in just one year, from 178,805 in 2013. In contrast, a mere 2,809 people entered the Newchurch. Over 820,000 quit in the last five years and personally took the trouble to contact the tax authorities to make it official.

I took this from the Traditio website. The decline does not surprise me but my question is why do they have to let the tax authority know???

Normally, I would take Traditio with a massive grain of salt (as they tend to overexaggerate and even slander) but they're absolutely right on this.

Maybe in the past, it was like a tithe - similar to the Mormons - that paid for everything church-related - construction, schools, seminaries, etc. Of course, the German Church is a trainwreck and if any of them left, it's probably a good thing.

The more people that leave the theological plane crash going on in Vienna and Berlin and stop giving them even a single Euro, the better.

Marlelar · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2015, 10:51:13 AM »

Aha! They are taxed to go to church !

compulsory church tax

Apparently the church co-operates by denying the sacraments if you don't pay up :shocked:

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Catholics who renounce their church membership are barred from confession and communion, and from the anointing of the sick, unless they are on the point of death.

Sounds more like a sacrament vending machine than a church. Put your money in, get your product out the other end.

Anyone here from Deutchland?

TKGS · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2015, 11:14:52 AM »

Quote from: Marlelar

Aha! They are taxed to go to church !

compulsory church tax

Apparently the church co-operates by denying the sacraments if you don't pay up :shocked:

Quote
Catholics who renounce their church membership are barred from confession and communion, and from the anointing of the sick, unless they are on the point of death.

Sounds more like a sacrament vending machine than a church. Put your money in, get your product out the other end.

Anyone here from Deutchland?

I can understand how people can be barred from communion and anointing of the sick (one of the new Novus Ordo sacraments that replaced extreme unction), how do they bar people from confession? Does the German church only have face-to-face confession? Do you have to insert your tax card into a slot before going into a confessional (if they still exist)?

Just curious.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2015, 03:14:44 PM »

In Germany, taxes actually go to Churches based on their numbers. A church of 1,000 members would receive more tax dollars than a church of 300 members.

Marlelar · « **Reply #5 on:** August 06, 2015, 02:01:03 AM »

What is shocking to me is that a church member is forced to support their church at a mandatory rate of 9% and that it is administered by the secular government, which happens to keep 3% for their "administrative" expenses.

Did Christ say that tithes should be wrung out from people or is it a reflection of their thankfulness to God?

I suspect that treating tithing as a business expense impacts how a person views his church. Is it just another bill to pay? If so what is being "received" in return for the payment?

Dolores · « **Reply #6 on:** August 06, 2015, 08:13:40 AM »

Germany has an interesting system that is actually quite ancient. They pay an income tax of 8 or 9% (depending on where they live), which is then distributed to the religious group of which the person indicates they are a member. If you officially declare yourself to not be a member of any religious group, you don't pay the tax.

From what I've read, the church tax goes back to the early Christian time where chiefs of Germanic tribes would collect money from the whole tribe, and then distribute it to the priests. This continued through the middle ages and renaissance when princes would impose a tax for the support of churches, and it continues to this day.

In my opinion, the church tax has completely outlived its usefulness. It now creates a grotesque incentive on the part of German clerics to try and change Church teaching in order to placate people, and convince them not to leave the Church (and thus lose revenue). Additionally, as others have mentioned, it has also recently caused German clerics to impose a kind of simony where you are actually denied the sacraments if you don't pay the tax.

According to some sources, German NO bishops have an average monthly salary of about $8,000. Given that at least 70% of church revenue in Germany is attributable to the church tax, it's no wonder the NO clerics will do whatever they can to keep the money flowing. Greed does horrible things to people.