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Author Topic: Gender segregation in church  (Read 5364 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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Re: Gender segregation in church
« Reply #75 on: September 05, 2018, 04:05:12 AM »
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  • The Syro-Malabar Rite/Church does segregation, and I imagine other Eastern Rites/Churches still do this as well.
    .
    The Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria, Diocese of Los Angeles, Southern California, and Hawaii · St. Mary and St. Athanasius, 17431 Roscoe Blvd, Northridge, CA 91325, segregates the men from the women in their church.
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    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #76 on: September 17, 2018, 03:09:31 PM »
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  • His Hebrew tagline translates to:  "Blessed be the Lord Jesus Christ."  
    I would translate it  more literally, as "Blessed be the Name of Jesus the King."  I'm not sure that it makes much difference in this case.   

    In regard to the topic, there is an old church in my area which has the statues and stained glass pictures for male Saints on one side and female ones on the other.  I was told that this corresponded to seating for men and women in the congregation.

    There is a lot of evidence that this was the traditional practice, although, as Matthew points out, I wonder how about how practical it would be to implement under current conditions.




    Offline christy

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #77 on: September 22, 2018, 10:46:31 AM »
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  •  there is still carnal temptation in looking at the face of a woman or hearing a feminine voice. Both of these seem to be working against the sanctity and holiness of the mass. 
    How is that?
    Only creeps or freaks would be carnally tempted in Church by hearing a feminine voice.
    Seriously? Get realistic.
    Church segregation would be weird. 

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #78 on: September 22, 2018, 10:58:17 AM »
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  • How is that?
    Only creeps or freaks would be carnally tempted in Church by hearing a feminine voice.
    Seriously? Get realistic.
    Church segregation would be weird.
    There are some hardcore Orthodox Jєωs who believe that hearing a woman's voice is tempting and violates Jєωιѕн law.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #79 on: September 22, 2018, 11:15:05 AM »
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  • There are some hardcore Orthodox Jєωs who believe that hearing a woman's voice is tempting and violates Jєωιѕн law.
    Yes, this is why they put their women behind a wall in the ѕуηαgσgυє, not just separate sides of the seating.  
    Old Order Amish and some very conservative Mennonites seat women separately from men.  It doesn't seem to be a problem there because everyone is related and all the women and older girls help with the infants and toddlers.  
    It might work in some chapels where there is a similar family set-up, but in most places, I can't see it being satisfactory at all.  Many women would just have to give up being able to really hear Mass or focus on prayer for a period of maybe 10 years until an older girl could take charge of the young ones.  And if she's blessed with lots of boys?  Too bad!  
    The world has already done too much damage to our Catholic families without adopting a rule to make it harder to come to Church.  What of the women whose husbands lost their Faith and don't go to Mass?  Must they and their children be separated for worship or, if the children are very numerous and young, not come at all?


    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #80 on: September 22, 2018, 12:54:07 PM »
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  • I have read that the chief reason for the separation of the genders during Holy Mass was because of the ancient practice of the Pax or "kiss of peace", which all of the faithful and clerics participated in, then. Nowadays the Pax is limited; given only during a solemn high Mass and between the clerics only. So, separation of genders--not a necessary thing anymore. It made sense to me. And I agree wholeheartedly with Seraphina on this topic.

    Offline dymphnaw

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #81 on: September 25, 2018, 12:22:14 PM »
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  • Yes, this is why they put their women behind a wall in the ѕуηαgσgυє, not just separate sides of the seating. 
    Hardcore Orthodox Jєωs also advise men to check on their sons multiple times a night to wake the boy up in case he has a nocturnal emission. Can you imagine how neurotic those boys mustbe by the time they are adults? Before we imitate another cultures ways  we should understand what they are. Have anyone ever noticed how rude ultra Orthodox men are to gentile women?  They scowl, speak curtly and toss change rather than place it in a customer's hand. I don't want Catholics imitating that.

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #82 on: September 25, 2018, 03:02:11 PM »
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  • There are some hardcore Orthodox Jєωs who believe that hearing a woman's voice is tempting and violates Jєωιѕн law.
    The SSPX forbids female soloists in the Catholic liturgy. (I'm not sure if this is something specific to SSPX or if it is/was a liturgical law.)
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    Offline christy

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #83 on: September 26, 2018, 10:33:38 AM »
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  • The SSPX forbids female soloists in the Catholic liturgy. (I'm not sure if this is something specific to SSPX or if it is/was a liturgical law.)
    What? that's kind of crazy.
    Do you know why they do this?

    Offline RoughAshlar

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #84 on: September 26, 2018, 10:54:20 AM »
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  • What? that's kind of crazy.
    Do you know why they do this?
    Pius X re-emphasized this prohibition on the ground that women were not permitted to fulfil any liturgical function (Motu proprio ‘De musica sacra’, 1903).

    Quote
    “Women should not be part of a choir; they belong to the ranks of the laity. Separate women's choirs too are totally forbidden, except for serious reasons and with permission of the bishop”
     (Sacred Congregation for Liturgy, decree 22 Nov. 1907).

    Quote
    “Any mixed choir of men and women, even if they stand far from the sanctuary, is totally forbidden”
    (Sacred Congregation for Liturgy, decree 18 Dec. 1908).

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #85 on: September 26, 2018, 10:59:42 AM »
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  • The one at my SSPX chapel is mixed, as most chapels do not have the resources or musical capital to do so otherwise, like a men's chorus or a men and boys choir.
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Gender segregation in church
    « Reply #86 on: September 26, 2018, 11:50:55 AM »
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  • Pius X re-emphasized this prohibition on the ground that women were not permitted to fulfil any liturgical function (Motu proprio ‘De musica sacra’, 1903).


    No, the original SSPX, Archbishop Lefebvre, etc. are not dumber than you. They are well aware of those quotes forbidding women in "choir".

    The "choir" spoken of in that prohibition is a completely different animal than the thing you call a "choir" at your local Trad chapel. That is the short version.

    I've answered this question in depth before, but with all the activity and traffic on CathInfo, I can't find it at the moment.

    If the singing isn't liturgical (an official part of the liturgy; as in, the priest doesn't have to repeat it up there at the altar) then it's just a lay choir, and that's completely different.
    The prohibition is about liturgical choir, as in "choir stalls" that monks or seminarians sit/kneel/stand in while they recite the Divine Office (the official, public prayer of the Church). Example sentence, "Sister Mary was in Choir reciting Terce when the bishop arrived at the convent."

    It's a confusion of terms. Sometimes a term can mean two completely different things.

    For example, the term "anti-semitism". It depends on who is defining it.

    Anti-semitism (hatred of a human being because he is Jєωιѕн) is a grave sin.
    Anti-semitism (opposing the errors of Judaism, and/or the agenda of the Jєωs following the тαℓмυd and trying to bring about the One World Government of the Antichrist) is a virtue.

    This is a good example of why reading a single book doesn't make one an expert. A person with high intelligence might assume that because he can read and understand English that he knows how to interpret or apply a given sentence that he reads somewhere. That's not always the case.
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