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Author Topic: Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt  (Read 1802 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
« on: January 24, 2015, 09:45:43 AM »
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  • The part in bold resonated the most with me.

    If you're in a hurry, just scroll down to the end. That's the "meat" of why I posted this.

    I don't think Disney is promoting liberty here, they are promoting license. Why else would they have a problem (or suggest to kids that there's a conflict or problem) with the RATIONAL LIMITS on their behavior imposed by their parents? That gives away the Disney game right there!


    (CNN)You can't escape Disney's phenomenon "Frozen."

    It is the highest-grossing animated film of all time and one of Disney's top franchises.

    It was the most downloaded movie from Apple last year, and kids everywhere are still singing the movie's anthem, "Let It Go."

    Heck, it's now probably stuck in your own head right now, even if you have never seen the film.

    So why has the 2013 movie stuck around for so long for the under-5 set?

    Experts say it is not just because you can find images of movie's sisters on everything. Elsa and Anna are on dresses, on scooters and, just in time for the Easter season, even on jelly beans.

    To understand the psychology behind "Frozen" Mania, CNN reached out to psychologists who are sisters themselves: Yalda Uhls is regional director for Common Sense Media. Maryam Kia-Keating is an associate professor of clinical psychology at University of California, Santa Barbara. Here is our edited conversation.

    CNN: Princess movies have been around since the beginning of time, but this has really resonated. What has made this one so unique?

    Yalda Uhls: One of the things that really struck me, and I think struck little children, is that there is a really strong intergenerational, family-themed message here. Despite the sisters Anna and Elsa being separated for so long, the story is ultimately about the bond between the two of them.

    When you're little, that is your zone; that's your group; they define your world.

    Highlighting that and making it feel important -- your sister, your brother, your mom and dad -- is something little kids can really identify with.

    Maryam Kia-Keating: Kids can really understand the idea of their sister wanting to play with them, and sometimes not, but still having a strong family bond.

    Ultimately, it's about the love between the sisters. That's a message that many little children understand. There are also good lessons about overcoming struggles and facing life challenges. But, what's interesting about preschoolers, in particular, is there's this loyalty and unrelenting interest to watch this movie over and over again.

    Part of it is because it was so well done, but there are some themes that younger kids can really identify with.

    My 4-year-old daughter told me that she also liked that it didn't have a witch.

    I wouldn't have thought that until she said it, but it made me more thoughtful about all the other movies -- great movies -- that have scary witches and themes in them.

    This was something that little kids under 5 aren't going to have nightmares about.

    CNN: Why is not having a witch important to a preschooler?

    Kia-Keating: When you're an adult, you've heard a lot of these stories, like "Snow White" or "Cinderella," and you forget the power they can have.

    It's helpful to have a child's point of view on this.

    Kids are living in this world where the line between what's real and what's not really is blurry, and because they have such vivid imaginations, witches and monsters can feel very real.

    As adults, we may see these villains or monsters as a way to tell a story or a lesson, but when children are in the moment of being scared, they are caught up in the fear and not in finding the larger lesson.

    Uhls: I used to work in the film industry, and as adults, we're told that we need conflict to drive drama. Take Grimm's Fairy Tales; there are always dire stakes. Or movies like "Bambi" and "The Lion King," where the mother or father die.

    These are serious issues and themes, and sometimes little kids aren't ready to process and understand these ideas.

    CNN: What about the characters seem so easy for kids to empathize with?

    Uhls: Preschooler imaginations are really strong, and so they respond really well to stories with magical realism.

    In "Frozen," Princess Elsa has these powers to control ice and snow -- and that really captures kids' imaginations.

    When you're small, you don't feel powerful. Everyone is always dictating what you can and cannot do. Having a character they can empathize with that has these powers can make them feel more empowered, as well.

    Kia-Keating: That magical piece is exciting and is one of the things that really sets this movie apart from others.

    Another aspect that kids see themselves in Elsa and Anna is the impulsiveness.

    Parents are constantly trying to teach their little ones how to self-regulate their emotions, how to behave, how to sit down.

    Elsa is constantly trying to tame or control her emotions -- and while this is something that is salient to everyone throughout their lifetimes, this is something preschoolers deal with all the time.

    CNN: The song "Let It Go": It's everywhere, and kids can't stop singing it. What is it about this anthem?

    Kia-Keating: My 4-year-old came home and learned the song before we had even seen the movie.

    One of the lines she and all her friends connected to was "Be the good girl that you always have to be."

    And when they sing it, they wag their fingers like they do in the movie.

    I think it looks a lot like something they see and hear from parents -- be a good girl or boy, don't do this or that -- so part of it is copying what they frequently hear.

    But when I asked my daughter what she thought the song was about, she said it was about "Elsa being happy and free, and nobody bothering her."

    That's a message that everyone wants: to be happy and free.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #1 on: January 24, 2015, 09:51:31 AM »
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  • Someone should also look into the role of magic in this movie.

    I realize that many fairy tales involve magic -- but I bet there's a difference in how magic is used.

    Just like there's a fundamental difference between how Gandalf uses magic in Lord of the Rings (like an angel using God's power for specific purposes), and how characters in Harry Potter use magic (for their own will, their own whims, "Do What Thou Wilt")

    One of them is more like an angel using God's power for specific purposes that God allows, or within God's will and framework. Note how rarely Gandalf does anything "magic". During the battle at Minas Tirith, he uses his sword and staff as melee weapons to fight the orcs. He's not allowed to use preternatural power willy-nilly.

    The other way is to use magic FOR YOURSELF to bring yourself power, satisfaction, etc. This latter portrayal of magic primes children for the devil and witchcraft.
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    Offline songbird

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #2 on: January 25, 2015, 03:09:38 PM »
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  • I have no knowledge of this movie, BUT, do you recall "Secret Garden" or "Care Bears"?  Secret Garden had magic/seance.  That was not in the book.  Then "Care Bears", in a circle and all we have to do is join hands and say over and over again, "We Care", and things will happen. Now correct me if I am wrong, but were these movies rated "G".  And who is the person behind the curtain who rates movies?  For what I have seen in these movies, cultish/witchcraft and so on get a "G" rating!

    Do you recall the "Pokie Man" movie?  There was one or similar to it in Japan, I think, and about two-thirds through the movie, children and adults became ill and ran out of the movie.  They say that the thing/lights that went round and round was like hypnotism,  Hm?  

    Be sure to know about hypnotism.  It does not take much and it is dangerous.

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #3 on: January 25, 2015, 04:16:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Just like there's a fundamental difference between how Gandalf uses magic in Lord of the Rings (like an angel using God's power for specific purposes), and how characters in Harry Potter use magic (for their own will, their own whims, "Do What Thou Wilt")


    For the record I despise Harry Potter books and the movies along with Disney movies but you know even in the Lord of the Rings movies there was a lot of undesirable elements which is why I refuse to watch them to this day (like Faromir not refusing the One Ring as in the book when he refuses temptation, Eowyn as a feminist soldier fighting, Arwen's role is expanded to another fighting elf princess, Sam and Frodo's friendship dips into ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ infatuation, etc.)

    Offline Thursday

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #4 on: January 25, 2015, 08:30:54 PM »
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  • I've seen Frozen, the only thing which is a little suspect is the "Let it Go" song which could be interpreted as promoting "do as thou wilt." Other than that I found the female characters to be feminine and the male characters to be masculine and the songs pretty good, I really liked the "Do you want to build a snowman song." Pretty good story and character development.

    BTW I am convinced that Disney produces a lot of shows that are harmful to children, Teletubbies, sponge Bob, and a lot of other shows contain a lot of sɛҳuąƖ innuendo, gender neutral characters and bad behavior.

    Frozen didn't seem to contain any of that.


    Offline Matthew

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #5 on: January 25, 2015, 11:02:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thursday
    I've seen Frozen, the only thing which is a little suspect is the "Let it Go" song which could be interpreted as promoting "do as thou wilt." Other than that I found the female characters to be feminine and the male characters to be masculine and the songs pretty good, I really liked the "Do you want to build a snowman song." Pretty good story and character development.

    BTW I am convinced that Disney produces a lot of shows that are harmful to children, Teletubbies, sponge Bob, and a lot of other shows contain a lot of sɛҳuąƖ innuendo, gender neutral characters and bad behavior.

    Frozen didn't seem to contain any of that.


    I tasted this cup of lemonade here and it's overall pretty good. It has natural lemon juice; not too much. Just enough sugar to bring out the lemon flavor. And some ice cubes to make it cold and refreshing.

    So many drinks aren't served cold, or they're too sweet.

    Only one problem I found -- this glass of lemonade has some arsenic in it.

    So no big deal. Overall, it's a "win". I can't say I'd steer anyone away from it. It gets a score of 95% in my book.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #6 on: January 25, 2015, 11:04:58 PM »
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  • Why are we Trads so DESPERATE for entertainment that we're willing to consume crap just because it's "not completely crap"?

    Would a man dying of thirst consume a glass of delicious lemonade with a fatal dose of cyanide or arsenic in it?

    But the analogy doesn't hold, because we're NOT dying of thirst. There are hundreds of things we could spend our time on instead.

    When something has one fatal flaw, it needs to be mercilessly cast from our Catholic homes. And if that leaves us with 5 movies to watch, then it's time to take up reading, discussing, or a thousand other hobbies!

    Just because The World says we must watch TV for hours every day doesn't mean that we must. The World has got it wrong before...very wrong.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #7 on: January 25, 2015, 11:10:15 PM »
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  • And yes, I am automatically suspicious of anything The World accepts or lavishes praise on -- from Pope Francis to Disney movies including Frozen.

    The World says Catholics are foolish for having large families. They call us imprudent, earth-destroying rabbits. The World says that men and women are the same. That women should have "control of their bodies" and killing the unborn is no big deal. The world says that wanting a normal "middle class" life is a great reason to kill your unborn baby.

    Do I need to go on? The World can jump in the lake. The World was happy to persecute Our Lord and every last one of the Saints.

    The World, as such, is (and always has been) the enemy of Christ and our holy religion. You and I must choose.

    I have made my choice.
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    Offline ggreg

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #8 on: January 26, 2015, 06:49:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Why are we Trads so DESPERATE for entertainment that we're willing to consume crap just because it's "not completely crap"?

    Would a man dying of thirst consume a glass of delicious lemonade with a fatal dose of cyanide or arsenic in it?

    But the analogy doesn't hold, because we're NOT dying of thirst. There are hundreds of things we could spend our time on instead.

    When something has one fatal flaw, it needs to be mercilessly cast from our Catholic homes. And if that leaves us with 5 movies to watch, then it's time to take up reading, discussing, or a thousand other hobbies!

    Just because The World says we must watch TV for hours every day doesn't mean that we must. The World has got it wrong before...very wrong.


    There are two ways to fight an infectious disease.

    One is to isolate yourself from it.  That worked for the American natives for millennia.  It works now with Ebola.  We put people in quarantine and don't expose the population to the disease.  There's nothing wrong with this method.  It works.  In the short term it is a perfectly acceptable option PROVIDING you can isolate yourself.

    The other method is to expose yourself to the disease, in a limited way, so your immune system can recognise it as harmful and learn to fight it.  This is not without risks.

    I've seen people fail at both methods and I've seen people succeed at both methods.  I know of families that ditched the TV long long ago and spoke of religious and wholesome things in the house and rejected anything worldly from entering the door.  I've seen them do this while remaining in the burbs as well as moving their entire life to the boondocks.  In some cases their children became priests and nuns or went on to have good families themselves.  In other cases, they ALL lapsed, to a man.  I'm talking families of 8 children none of whom practice.

    My siblings grew up with the TV and we watched a LOT of it, always with my father keeping the remote in his hand.  About 2/3rds of my siblings have ditched it now and 3 still have it (tend to watch a lot of sports and stuff more than soaps and other trash).  All of their children still go to Church and the oldest is 36 years old.  The way we were taught to handle it was to watch the movie and point out where the poisoned message was.  Then we would discuss it around the dinner table or in front of the TV.  My father would often switch channels when something inappropriate came on.

    In time you learn to recognise the poison and can therefore, with an act of your will, resist the poison, since the poison in many movies is an idea, not always blatant pornography.  Obviously if you choose not to fight the poison then it can do you more harm.  So spiritual poison is different in that it involves your voluntary will, not merely your biological, involuntary, response.

    I am not sure that the only Catholic defence consists of running away and isolating yourself from the poison, otherwise the first apostles would not have headed to Rome and other large cities in the Roman world to convert people.  These cities were full of brothels, smut, human corruption, porn scrawled on the walls of toilets and alleyways.  Why were they not terrified of entering?  They were after all simple fishermen from the countryside in Judea.

    Let's assume that you marry a middle class girl at aged 25.  You have a job as a compliance officer in a bank that pays $80k per year and will rise to $150k per year.  But that means you have to live in travelling distance of the bank.

    That income means your wife does not have to work and you can afford to have a large bunch of children without too much difficulty.  You're not going to be rich, by any means but you will be able to cope and afford what comes along.  But it also means that while you don't have a TV and your wife homeschools she also invites the WASPY neighbours children to play in the garden or involves your children in a local amateur dramatics group for children.

    They do a couple of songs from Frozen.  Do you.

    1.  Give it all up and move to the boonies?

    2.  Pull them from the amateur dramatics class and therefore just about every other group since the SSPX are not going to provide these things and the resistance has trouble even providing regular mass?

    3.  Let them take part and maybe even watch the movie, but around the dinner table explain the good and bad aspects of the cartoon and where the poison lies?

    Offline ggreg

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #9 on: January 26, 2015, 07:13:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Thursday
    I've seen Frozen, the only thing which is a little suspect is the "Let it Go" song which could be interpreted as promoting "do as thou wilt."  


    It could also be interpreted as a resistance against the established order.

    For example, Princess Diana, not being willing to simply "stay quiet" and "keep a stiff upper lip" when her husband was running around with Camilla Parker Bowles.  Which, clearly, she was expected to do within the British Royal Family.

    While I agree there is an agenda and the writers are sufficiently clever to create a song that can be interpreted in multiple ways, deliberately, I am sure, as it increases the appeal of the movie, if you go strictly from the plot of the cartoon prior to the song, Elsa had a magical power that she was stopped from using.

    If that is a sɛҳuąƖ perversion that is one thing, though the movie doesn't suggest that.  But what if it is simply a way of the Royal Family not embarrassing themselves and wanting to keep things hidden and swept under the carpet?  Which in history Royal Families and other rich establishment figures are wont to do.

    Should a Royal Princess like Diana be pressured by the rest of the monarchy and their courtiers to put up and shut up when Charles is running around with his girlfriend?  Or should under those circuмstances should she be allowed to expose what is going on to the world and shine a light on it?

    Another example, Queen Elizabeth had two cousins who were locked in an asylum and essentially forgotten about.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2059831/The-Queens-hidden-cousins-They-banished-asylum-1941-left-neglected-intriguing-docuмentary-reveals-all.html

    If they escaped and were adopted, cared for and happy and sang a sort of "let it go" lyric aimed at the establishment that had no real love for them and saw them as an embarrassment, would you see that as a rebellion or a justified break for freedom against a corrupt order?


    Offline Matthew

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    Frozen introduces children to Satan motto Do What Thou Wilt
    « Reply #10 on: January 26, 2015, 09:31:55 AM »
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  • One interesting idea --

    By NOT jumping on the Frozen religion/bandwagon, and picking something outdated for your children to watch like, say, "Gumby" --

    1. They won't have to obsess about it, because the whole world is not obsessing about it.
    2. They won't be able to get Gumby sheets, Gumby toilet paper and Gumby clothing, because they don't exist. In other words, there is no merchandising empire built around Gumby.
    3. They won't be able to desire, much less nag you for, these things.

    You could substitute something else, but you get the idea.

    By the way GGreg, I'm not for complete abstinence, although you have to remember original sin/fallen human nature that kids will watch ANYTHING and yes I mean absolutely anything. From a lecture teaching homeschooling techniques to parents, to a video teaching children their letters, to a crappy modern cartoon. I've seen 5 to 10 year olds clamoring to watch all of the above! There's something about a moving picture that attracts like candy.

    That's one thing that surprised me as a parent. My older kids who are voracious readers would drop everything to watch a half hour "learn your letters" video if I let them. (This is actually a very helpful video for YOUNGER kids to learn their letter sounds, by the way.) And a few weeks ago my wife was watching a boring seminar on homeschooling, and my younger kids sat around her computer and watched it with her.

    As a corollary, I've noticed that there's no quenching the desire by letting them watch X minutes a day. They always want more. Just like other vices, when you give in, nature starts craving more. So just like with sweets, you could give them 0 a day, 1 a day, 2 a day, etc. and you're still going to have to keep the box of cookies up high where they can't reach them.

    Another interesting tidbit -- kids are naturally attracted to screens in general. If I took out my digital camera to take a picture of a double rainbow in the backyard, and snapped a few pictures, the kids would say "let me see, let me see!" since my digital camera has a screen on the back to view the pictures stored on it. Nevermind the fact they can see a MUCH better version by simply looking at the rainbow itself which is still there for all to marvel at!

    It's like something doesn't exist until it's turned into a picture or movie. Bizarre.

    I remember Dr. David Allen White talked about this -- how people get all excited if they appear on the local news for 3 seconds. It's like they're celebrating their own birth  -- like they now truly exist since they've been on TV!

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