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Author Topic: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology  (Read 14379 times)

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Re: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology
« Reply #55 on: May 12, 2023, 07:51:42 AM »
Because his understanding of St. Bellarmine’s position is not his own, but that of his esteemed contemporary, Cajetan (as well as John of St. Thomas and Journet), and not that of some internet jockey who thinks he knows better than them what St. Bellarmine “REALLY” meant.
I don't recall quotes from them explaining St Bellarmine's position.   Where are they? 

Re: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology
« Reply #56 on: May 12, 2023, 07:57:02 AM »
I don't recall quotes from them explaining St Bellarmine's position.  Where are they?

See quotes over on pp. 2 from myself and PV.  I feel confident you’re up to the task.

I quoted JST commenting on Bellarmine.

PV quoted Journet commenting on Bellarmine.


Re: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology
« Reply #57 on: May 12, 2023, 08:11:05 AM »
John of St. Thomas: "Hence, Bellarmine and Suarez are of the opinion that, by the very fact that the Pope is a manifest heretic and declared to be incorrigible, he is deposed [ipso facto] by Christ our Lord without any intermediary, and not by any authority of the Church."

In other words, Lad does not truly hold St. Bellarmine's opinion, but a distorted bastardization of it, for even St. Bellarmine -according to John of St. Thomas- requires a declaration from the Church before he is deposed.

Effectively, Lad has called St. Bellarmine "stupid" for judging the pope.

The truth of the matter is that any sede appealing to St. Bellarmine does not understand St. Bellarmine.  But we can be pretty sure John of St. Thomas does, and it is his description of St. Bellarmine's position that we have quoted here.

Or will you choose the twisted ramblings of the flat-earth Feeneyite pope deposer to impart to you "the true" position of St. Bellarmine?
Well then John of St Thomas must have been mistaken because St Bellarmine himself said this:

The fourth opinion is of Cajetan. There, he teaches, that a manifestly heretical Pope is not ipso facto deposed; but can and ought to be deposed by the Church. Now in my judgment, such an opinion cannot be defended.

Re: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology
« Reply #58 on: May 12, 2023, 08:13:02 AM »
Well then John of St Thomas must be mistaken…

When you and Lad, et al., start doing that, I tune out.

It’s one thing to weigh an esteemed theologian against another, but when you say an esteemed theologian doesn’t even know what another esteemed theologian is even talking about, I have grass to mow.

Re: Francis Includes Schismatic Heretics in Martyrology
« Reply #59 on: May 12, 2023, 08:15:13 AM »
When you and Lad, et al., start doing that, I tune out.
I know.  St Robert Bellarmine's own words are difficult to swallow.