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Author Topic: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?  (Read 12397 times)

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Offline Steve

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I have Francis Spirago's "The Catechism Explained," which is excellent... what else is out there* that could be quoted in support of MORE flexibility about going out to eat at restaurants on Sunday?


My understanding is that we are not forbidden to do work that is absolutely necessary ... 

  "All work may be done which is required for the support of life;  we may have our food prepared, and are allowed to gather in our crops if the weather threatens their destruction.  All work that is indispensable for the public service may be carried on:  e.g., the postal service, the railroad, telegraph, and police service."  ("The Catechism Explained")

1.  If the "we may have our food prepared" part of the above allows for Mom (or Dad, elder sister... ) to cook breakfast on Sunday for the family... does it also permit ALL restaurants to do business - and employ chefs, waitresses et al on Sunday?  

2.a.  If yes to 1., on what scale can traditional Catholics participate?  Nowadays if we go out on a Sunday, there are TONS of restaurants and all of them are PACKED on a Sunday - should we make even moderate efforts to not be part of the Sunday restaurant crowd?  Or is it just an unavoidable fact-of-modern-day-life that almost no one stays home on Sunday for their meals?

2.b.  Assuming the Church has provided clear guidance permitting one to eat out at will on Sundays, what of the possibility of scandal?  Is it even an issue?  Only an issue of Protestants (see below) taking scandal from Catholics (and other non-observing Protestants :laugh1: )?

This in the context of the phenomenon of certain restaurants (Chick-Fil-A, local private restaurants) that make an explicit practice of closing on Sundays, and my understanding that even in the U.S. of old almost ALL businesses (incl restaurants?) were closed on Sundays, and only in more recent times has Sunday been normalized as a regular business day in the U.S.**,***

3.  For those who choose to generally NOT eat at restaurants on a Sunday but occasionally must travel, what do you do?  We have routinely packed home-prepared food (which we might even do on a non-Sunday, so I realize that is more of a family habit and not something necessarily to be enjoined on others).  Would you choose a hotel or airport specifically if you HAVE to eat out on a Sunday, since those are services that might(?) be more readily classed as indispensable public services? 

4.  What about other necessary shopping?  I am inclined to consider places like grocery stores, auto parts stores, hardware stores, possibly even Wal-Mart since it is SUCH a public institution that carries many essentials... 

5.  ... I would would think we should rule out Macy's, Dillards... 'The Mall' , the chocolate shop, cigar store ... since these are generally NOT essentials?  Or, are we in such a place in modern society that it's possible to imagine actual essential requirements that come up on Sundays that cannot be served any other way (e.g. need a suit for important business on Monday)?   

Of interest:  I once read that John Paul II used regularly to have breakfast with his father on Sundays at a hotel in his hometown as a boy... is this what caused him to have heterodox views later in life? :laugh1:

*(please:  only sources that have more or less general acceptance by the Traditional Catholic Church, so I can avoid paroxysms of scrupulosity trying to conform to some obscure mystical handbook:laugh1:)

**How true is this actually?  I.e. was downtown really a ghost town on a Sunday in say, 1885?  If not, what businesses generally WERE open on a Sunday?

***Some have commented that the Sunday closure for restaurants is actually a Protestant thing.  There is a great little book by Catherine Ho, "The Lark and the Dragon," in which she describes her teenage youth in China in the 1950's when Mao's hammer was coming down hard on Catholics (she was in the Legion of Mary), and she heroically did ~20 years in Communist labor camps for holding on to her Catholic Faith.  She related that the Protestants often took more of the Communist's ire in the camps because they refused to work on Sundays whereas she understood that the Church relaxes the rules on servile labor when in such situations.  My Spirago seems to corroborate this:  "if a servant does what a master commands him through fear of evil consequences to himself... in this case the sin rests with the master"

Offline Confiteor Deo

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Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2024, 03:17:39 AM »
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  • A catholic is required to find a job where he doesn't work on Sundays, if at all possible. This means that when we go out to a restaurant on a Sunday, we are actually encouraging the business to continue functioning on the Lord's Day. If the jews have Shabos Goys to serve them saturdays, aren't Catholics behaving the same way by being waited on in a restaurant on Sunday?

    Just throwing this idea out there for discussion as I have tried to discuss with priests and not had a clear answer. My gut feeling is that we should avoid restaurants, bowling alleys and anywhere else on a Sunday which relies on someone having to work to entertain us.  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #2 on: March 04, 2024, 06:35:23 AM »
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  • There's a great talk out there by Bishop Sanborn discussing it.

    Since eating is essential and someone has to prepare meals (we don't hire Sunday Jews to cook our meals), it's permitted to have others prepare meals for us, and then to compensate them for their work.

    There are reasons that could justify working on Sundays, so not everyone who works preparing meals on Sundays is forbidden from doing so.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #3 on: March 04, 2024, 10:33:49 AM »
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  • I've wondered about this myself, though I refuse to develop a scruple over it.

    When you prepare meals at home, it is just one person (or more than one) preparing, usually, a single meal, and the various kitchen appliances do most of the "work", cooking, baking, heating, and so on.  We are surely not expected to go hungry on Sundays, or only to eat cold or pre-cooked food.  (Much of Jєωιѕн shabbos preparation revolves around cooking all the food before Friday evening, and finding ways to keep it warm for 24 hours without lighting fires or doing work involving creation of something new, hence dishes such as cholent and innovative kitchen appliances such as the blech, a metal sheet that fits over the range top and diffuses heat created before sundown on Friday.)

    As to restaurants, OTOH, someone is working an eight-hour shift (or more), and is working all day to prepare food to order for guests, keep a buffet stocked, and so on.  Again, I refuse to develop a scruple over this, but it is servile work, and one could debate back and forth whether it is "necessary" because people have to eat, and it takes work off whomever would otherwise prepare a meal at home.  I'm willing to settle the doubt in favor of enjoying a simple restaurant meal that requires minimal work from anyone (but I cannot afford to eat out all that much), and to be at peace with the matter.  I would look to responsible traditional Catholic priests to weigh in on this, using principles of moral theology such as may be found in Jone, McHugh and Callan, and so on.  There is also local custom to consider.

    Offline Steve

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #4 on: March 05, 2024, 08:28:11 PM »
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  • There's a great talk out there by Bishop Sanborn discussing it.

    Since eating is essential and someone has to prepare meals (we don't hire Sunday Jєωs to cook our meals), it's permitted to have others prepare meals for us, and then to compensate them for their work.

    There are reasons that could justify working on Sundays, so not everyone who works preparing meals on Sundays is forbidden from doing so.
    Thanks, this does help, along with SimpleMan's refusal to develop a scruple over it, because, I mean, you got to put a pin in it somewhere...


    SimpleMan's illustration of the issue of preparing meals for the family vs. 8 hrs of preparing meals for many families is a good one though...

    ...would the latter be analogous to maybe royalty of old where the lord of the estate had a large family and retinue of servants they might have a cook/kitchen staff and 3 meals /day to prepare... incl everyone has to eat on Sundays?

    Still, the Sunday restaurant scene today seems overwrought and in a Catholic society more would be eating at home and the sheer scale of it all (the ' necessary' servile labor and commerce) would be much mitigated.


    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #5 on: March 05, 2024, 09:43:56 PM »
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  • THE MORAL THEOLOGY
    https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/35354/pg35354-images.html

    2579. Servile Works.—The prohibitory part of the precept is concerned with servile works, that is, labor of a kind that tends to make one unfit for devotion or that shows disrespect for the sacredness of the day, even though the labor be done gratis, or for recreation, or out of devotion. Hence, the law forbids:

    (a) works given to the service of the devil, that is, sins that deprive one of holiness, such as riotous recreations, gambling, drunkenness, reading improper matter, and attendance at evil movie performances. But these works are opposed to the end, not to the text, of the law; and hence the circuмstance of time aggravates their malice but does not give them a new species (see 2314);
    (b) works given to the service of the body (servile works properly so called) or to the service of external goods (forensic and commercial works). Servile works in the strict sense cause bodily fatigue and are taken up with material things, and hence they distract the mind from religious thoughts. Such are manual labors (e.g., plowing, digging, housecleaning) and mechanical or industrial labors (e.g., printing, building, plastering, shoemaking). Forensic and commercial labors (e.g., arguing in court, auctioneering) are also of a very worldly kind and unsuitable for the quiet and recollection of Sundays and holydays.
    2580. The prohibitory part of the Sunday precept does not affect works which are no impediment to devotion and which cast no dishonor on the day. Such are:
    (a) works devoted immediately to the service of God. The purpose of the law is to allow leisure for these works, and hence manifestly their performance is not forbidden. Such works are saying Mass, preaching, administering the Sacraments, singing in church, and visiting the poor and sick (John, vii. 23; Matt., xii. 5). But works that are only remotely related to divine worship (e.g., cleaning the church, painting the altar, repairing the vestments, decorating the shrines) should not be done on Sunday without necessity;
    (b) works devoted to the service of the mind (liberal works). These works are of a more elevated kind, do not require great bodily exertion, and are not looked upon as unsuitable to the Sabbath. Such are intellectual works (e.g., teaching, reading, writing, studying), artistic works (e.g., playing the organ, singing, drawing, painting a picture, embroidering), and works of recreation (moderate sports or diversions such as baseball, tennis, and chess).
    2581. Other Kinds of Works and Sunday Observance.—(a) Common works are those that stand between the liberal and the servile, since they are exercised equally by mind and body, such as walking, riding, hunting, and fishing that is not very laborious. These are lawful.
    (b) Doubtful works are those that are now non-servile, now servile, according to the manner in which they are conducted, such as the work of painters, sculptors, typists, seamstresses, and photographers. Thus, it is a liberal work to paint a portrait, a servile work to paint the walls of a house. In settling the character of various kinds of work, one must be guided by the prudent opinion of one’s locality, and in case of doubt and need must seek a dispensation. (For a history of the theology of servile works see Franz X. Pettirsch, S.J., “A Theology of Sunday Rest,” _Theology Digest_, Vol. VI, no. 2, Spring 1958, pp. 114 ff.; for a survey of modern studies on the problem see _Proceedings of the Catholic Theological Society of America_, 1957).

    2582. Is it lawful without necessity to hire the servile work of non-Catholics on Sunday, if these persons are not thereby impeded from the natural duty of worshipping God and no scandal is given? (a) If the non-Catholics are infidels and not bound by church laws, this is lawful. The same would be true of those who lack the use of reason (see 427 sqq.). (b) If the non-Catholics are heretics, it is not lawful in the case given to make them work on Sunday.



    CATECHISM OF TRENT
    https://www.saintsbooks.net/books/The%20Roman%20Catechism.pdf


    "Six Days Shalt Thou Labour And Do All Thy Work"

    And as the observance of the precept is very strongly assisted by these words: Six days shalt thou labour, but on the seventh day is the sabbath of God, the pastor should therefore carefully explain them to the people. For from these words it can be gathered that the faithful are to be exhorted not to spend their lives in indolence and sloth, but that each one, mindful of the words of the Apostle, should do his own business, and work with his own hands, as he had commanded them.

    These words also enjoin as a duty commanded by God that in six days we do all our works, lest we defer to a festival what should have been done during the other days of the week, thereby distracting the attention from the things of God.

    Third Part of this Commandment
    The third part of the Commandment comes next to be explained. It points out, to a certain extent, the manner in which we are to keep holy the Sabbath day, and explains particularly what we are forbidden to do on that day.

    Works Forbidden
    Thou shalt do no work on it, says the Lord, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thy beast, nor the stranger that is within thy gates.

    These words teach us, in the first place, to avoid whatever may interfere with the worship of God. Hence it is not difficult to perceive that all servile works are forbidden, not because they are improper or evil in themselves, but because they withdraw the attention from the worship of God, which is the great end of the Commandment.

    The faithful should be still more careful to avoid sin, which not only withdraws the mind from the contemplation of divine things, but entirely alienates us from the love of God.

    Works Permitted
    But whatever regards the celebration of divine worship, such as the decoration of the altar or church on occasion of some festival, and the like, although servile works, are not prohibited; and hence our Lord says: The priests in the temple break the sabbath, and are without blame.

    Neither are we to suppose that this Commandment forbids attention to those things on a feast day, which, if neglected, will be lost; for this is expressly permitted by the sacred canons.

    There are many other things which our Lord in the Gospel declares lawful on festivals and which may be seen by the pastor in St. Matthew and St. John.

    Why Animals Are Not To Be Employed On The Sabbath
    To omit nothing that may interfere with the sanctification of the Sabbath, the Commandment mentions beasts of burden, because their use will prevent its due observance. If beasts be employed on the Sabbath, human labor also becomes necessary to direct them; for they do not labor alone, but assist the labours of man. Now it is not lawful for man to work on that day. Hence it is not lawful for the animals to work which man uses.

    But the Commandment has also another purpose. For if God commands the exemption of cattle from labor on the Sabbath, still more imperative is the obligation to avoid all acts of inhumanity towards servants, or others whose labor and industry we employ.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #6 on: March 05, 2024, 09:48:59 PM »
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  • I've wondered about this myself, though I refuse to develop a scruple over it.

    When you prepare meals at home, it is just one person (or more than one) preparing, usually, a single meal, and the various kitchen appliances do most of the "work", cooking, baking, heating, and so on.  We are surely not expected to go hungry on Sundays, or only to eat cold or pre-cooked food.  (Much of Jєωιѕн shabbos preparation revolves around cooking all the food before Friday evening, and finding ways to keep it warm for 24 hours without lighting fires or doing work involving creation of something new, hence dishes such as cholent and innovative kitchen appliances such as the blech, a metal sheet that fits over the range top and diffuses heat created before sundown on Friday.)

    As to restaurants, OTOH, someone is working an eight-hour shift (or more), and is working all day to prepare food to order for guests, keep a buffet stocked, and so on.  Again, I refuse to develop a scruple over this, but it is servile work, and one could debate back and forth whether it is "necessary" because people have to eat, and it takes work off whomever would otherwise prepare a meal at home.  I'm willing to settle the doubt in favor of enjoying a simple restaurant meal that requires minimal work from anyone (but I cannot afford to eat out all that much), and to be at peace with the matter.  I would look to responsible traditional Catholic priests to weigh in on this, using principles of moral theology such as may be found in Jone, McHugh and Callan, and so on.  There is also local custom to consider.

    It's impossible to know whether the individual serving your meals is justified in putting in the labor.  Some people need the extra income to support their families, which scenario would permit them to work on Sundays.  I've never known a Traditional Catholic priest who opined that it's sinful to eat at a restaurant on Sundays.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #7 on: March 05, 2024, 09:53:38 PM »
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  • These are a couple of the best talks out there on the subject ...





    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #8 on: March 06, 2024, 10:22:39 AM »
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  • It's impossible to know whether the individual serving your meals is justified in putting in the labor.  Some people need the extra income to support their families, which scenario would permit them to work on Sundays.  I've never known a Traditional Catholic priest who opined that it's sinful to eat at a restaurant on Sundays.

    I have to think that relatively few people get into food service as their highest and best choice.  A lot of people have to take whatever job they can get, and accept whatever hours their boss mandates.

    I'd settle the doubt in favor of those people needing their jobs, and not being free to refuse Sunday work if the restaurant is open on that day (and most are).  If Sunday work is required as a condition of their being able to work at a job they need, then I have to think it becomes "necessary servile work" due to that fact.  A lot of people work in food service because that's the only job they can do, it requires no education (trained chefs would be another matter), and it's a fairly easy job to get.  I know of someone who has a prison record (for a non-violent crime of larceny) and is the manager of a chain restaurant.  I'd say she has to work on Sundays (pretty sure she's Catholic). She's done a fine job of straightening her life out, and I admire her for that.

    Offline Steve

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #9 on: March 07, 2024, 12:10:21 PM »
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  • I have to think that relatively few people get into food service as their highest and best choice.  A lot of people have to take whatever job they can get, and accept whatever hours their boss mandates.

    I'd settle the doubt in favor of those people needing their jobs, and not being free to refuse Sunday work if the restaurant is open on that day (and most are).  If Sunday work is required as a condition of their being able to work at a job they need, then I have to think it becomes "necessary servile work" due to that fact.  A lot of people work in food service because that's the only job they can do, it requires no education (trained chefs would be another matter), and it's a fairly easy job to get.  I know of someone who has a prison record (for a non-violent crime of larceny) and is the manager of a chain restaurant.  I'd say she has to work on Sundays (pretty sure she's Catholic). She's done a fine job of straightening her life out, and I admire her for that.
    Okay, I think between Ladislaus' abt inability to tell (in doubtful things, liberty), and this in re restaurant work generally not a preferred choice for most, I think I'm satisfied.

    But I'm not sorry I inquired abt it so at least - with the generous help of other sincere Catholics - I have thought it through.  I think I will be okay eating out on the occasional Sunday, but moderate my use of this generally and not make it an ollie-ollie-oxen-free kind of thing.

    Thank you all for your help!

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Official Church 'Dispensation' for Eating at Restaurants on Sundays?
    « Reply #10 on: March 07, 2024, 12:20:20 PM »
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  • Okay, I think between Ladislaus' abt inability to tell (in doubtful things, liberty), and this in re restaurant work generally not a preferred choice for most, I think I'm satisfied.

    But I'm not sorry I inquired abt it so at least - with the generous help of other sincere Catholics - I have thought it through.  I think I will be okay eating out on the occasional Sunday, but moderate my use of this generally and not make it an ollie-ollie-oxen-free kind of thing.

    Thank you all for your help!
    That's precisely what I do --- settle the doubt in favor of liberty, but I don't run it into the ground, keep the work that my order requires as minimal as possible.  As a rule, I rarely dine at a sit-down restaurant with a waiter anyway, can't afford to do that every whipstitch.  It would be quick-service food (or even something taken off a warmer or pizza rack, such as Circle K or 7-Eleven) which requires little or no additional work from the staff.  I'm not a fancy person, nor do I have money to burn.

    Side point worth making, 7-Eleven cheese pizza must have something put in it.  I call it the crack cocaine of pizza.  For gas station pizza, it's not bad at all. Just something about it I can't quite describe.  Circle K pizza is garbage by comparison,but will do in a pinch if I'm hungry and if it's the best and most affordable option, there are far worse things one could eat if you're busy and have to be on your way, one slice is quite enough.

    If it's 7-Eleven cheese pizza, one slice will not do, you find yourself wanting two.