Author Topic: First Experience of the TLM  (Read 940 times)

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Offline poche

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First Experience of the TLM
« on: June 24, 2019, 10:32:19 AM »
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  • In attendance at that presentation and Mass were a devout Catholic mother and—compulsorily—her 16-year-old son. Her son had wanted nothing to do with the Mass or with the faith of the family. During the Mass, though, something changed. Her son’s attention was riveted on every word, action, and song of the Mass. Afterward, he thanked his mother profusely for having brought him to the Mass, exclaiming, “That was the most beautiful, the most sacred thing I have ever seen!” Not only his excitement, but his word choice caught my attention: “sacred.” That is not a word most teenagers use every day. It prompted me to ponder our natural search for truth and beauty.

    https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/first-reactions-of-teenage-boys-to-the-traditional-latin-mass

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 11:46:03 AM »
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  • This is the Mass that Paul VI forbade priests to say when the new Mass was promulgated.  He did so because he knew that if he had allowed the two the freedom to exist side-by-side, the novus ordo mass would have died out within a decade or so.

    I give the new mass less than 75 years before it becomes extinct.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #2 on: June 24, 2019, 12:43:51 PM »
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  •  What follows are my students’ reflections on their first experience of the TLM. I have left their quotes unaltered, except for an occasional correction of punctuation, capitalization, or spelling, for the sake of uniformity and to avoid filling this article with “[sic].” These are teenage boys, and because they are minors, I have omitted their last names.

    “Overall, the Traditional Latin Mass seemed more holy than the ordinary Mass I’m accustomed to. Rather than an interaction between the priest and the people, as it seems to be at an ordinary Mass, the Extraordinary Mass was almost exclusively an interaction between the priest and God. The priest was almost entirely focused on the altar, which made it truly seem like the ‘holy sacrifice’ of the Mass. This sense of sacrifice was furthered by the actions of those attending the Mass, as the majority of the time we were kneeling in silence. The silence and reverence of the Mass is significantly greater than that at ordinary Mass; personally, this made me feel and understand the sacredness of what was truly happening. This sacredness translated to all parts of the Mass, most notably the reception of the Eucharist, which was different than what I have previously experienced. By kneeling and receiving the Eucharist, I felt the real presence of Christ stronger than in times past. The final obvious difference was the use of Latin for most of the Mass instead of English, which, although hard to follow, made it seem more sacred.”  ∼ Jack

    “The Latin language as a whole, I feel, is much more fitting for what the Mass really is. […] I felt more in the presence of God than I normally do during a normal Mass. […] I also really enjoyed the relative silence and meditativeness that came with it. […] It was much more beautiful in comparison to the modern Mass.”  ∼ Peter

    “One thing I really liked about the Latin Mass was the meditation that is involved. For me, it forced me to examine my conscience. It helped me realize how much I sin, and how I need to do a better job of going to Confession and to try to avoid committing the same sins. Another thing about the Mass I really liked was the way we received Communion. We went up and knelt down in front of the priest. It was like I was kneeling before Christ. When we received Communion, I also liked having the priest place the Eucharist in our mouths without me touching it. […] I felt I was receiving Communion directly from Christ. […] I also liked how the priest was turned around most of the Mass. I felt like he was offering everything up to God.”  ∼ Noah

    “I thought the Traditional Latin Mass was better than the ordinary form of the Latin Rite Mass. […] It sounded as if angels were singing […]. Everything they did and said was meant to be respectful towards the Sacrament and God. […] If I had to choose between going to the Traditional Latin Mass and a normal Mass, I would definitely choose the Traditional Latin Mass, because everyone there is very reverent, dressed nicely, and everything they do is for the honor and glory of God, not for the people like the regular Mass.”  ∼ Brett

    “I like the Latin language, and the way that it sounds is much more beautiful than the English language and is very fitting in a Mass. […] I think it gives the Body of Christ much more respect and the authority it deserves when the priest gives us the Eucharist by mouth when kneeling.”  ∼ Alex 1

    “The Mass itself just, to me, seemed right. The way that the priest was facing toward the altar seemed that he was talking more to God than he was to us, and I thought it was better. Also, I liked that we, as witnesses to the Eucharist, had to kneel when the priest was talking to God. The Mass seemed more like an offering to God. I also liked the way we had to receive the Eucharist.”  ∼ Alex 2

    “The music seemed to fit very nicely with the tone of the Mass, which allowed for a more reverent and beautiful Mass. When I went up for Communion, I noticed that we had to kneel in a line and Father would give us Communion on our tongues. I believe receiving on the tongue is a lot better in some ways than receiving in the hand.”  ∼ Blaine

    “I had a much easier time staying alert and focused, which is sometimes hard for me to do at regular Sunday Mass. […] I also noticed that everyone there, including the women, was dressed very modestly. This usually isn’t what you see in regular Sunday Mass, and without these distractions it was easier to spend my time focused on the priest instead of the people around me. Another thing that I noticed was that when I went up for Communion, I had the Body of Christ placed straight in my mouth, which was new for me, and it was much more humbling to have it placed directly in my mouth instead of me doing that myself. […] Although most of the Mass was said in a different language and it was hard to follow along, it was a lot more holy in my opinion, because I don’t speak that language, so it put me in a different mood than I would have been if I was speaking in the language I do every day.”  ∼ Tommy

    “I was speaking and listening to the prayers, blessings, and consecrations of the Mass in a language the earliest Christians used. […] It is truly amazing to experience something that has withstood the test of time, truly showing the power of Christ’s established Church, an extension of Christ’s Kingdom on earth, and demonstrating the eternal reign of Christ the King, as the Church, which has been persecuted and scrutinized since its beginning has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic through schisms, attempted destruction, and other evils.”  ∼ Drew

    Offline poche

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 01:06:56 PM »
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  • What follows are my students’ reflections on their first experience of the TLM. I have left their quotes unaltered, except for an occasional correction of punctuation, capitalization, or spelling, for the sake of uniformity and to avoid filling this article with “[sic].” These are teenage boys, and because they are minors, I have omitted their last names.

    “Overall, the Traditional Latin Mass seemed more holy than the ordinary Mass I’m accustomed to. Rather than an interaction between the priest and the people, as it seems to be at an ordinary Mass, the Extraordinary Mass was almost exclusively an interaction between the priest and God. The priest was almost entirely focused on the altar, which made it truly seem like the ‘holy sacrifice’ of the Mass. This sense of sacrifice was furthered by the actions of those attending the Mass, as the majority of the time we were kneeling in silence. The silence and reverence of the Mass is significantly greater than that at ordinary Mass; personally, this made me feel and understand the sacredness of what was truly happening. This sacredness translated to all parts of the Mass, most notably the reception of the Eucharist, which was different than what I have previously experienced. By kneeling and receiving the Eucharist, I felt the real presence of Christ stronger than in times past. The final obvious difference was the use of Latin for most of the Mass instead of English, which, although hard to follow, made it seem more sacred.”  ∼ Jack

    “The Latin language as a whole, I feel, is much more fitting for what the Mass really is. […] I felt more in the presence of God than I normally do during a normal Mass. […] I also really enjoyed the relative silence and meditativeness that came with it. […] It was much more beautiful in comparison to the modern Mass.”  ∼ Peter

    “One thing I really liked about the Latin Mass was the meditation that is involved. For me, it forced me to examine my conscience. It helped me realize how much I sin, and how I need to do a better job of going to Confession and to try to avoid committing the same sins. Another thing about the Mass I really liked was the way we received Communion. We went up and knelt down in front of the priest. It was like I was kneeling before Christ. When we received Communion, I also liked having the priest place the Eucharist in our mouths without me touching it. […] I felt I was receiving Communion directly from Christ. […] I also liked how the priest was turned around most of the Mass. I felt like he was offering everything up to God.”  ∼ Noah

    “I thought the Traditional Latin Mass was better than the ordinary form of the Latin Rite Mass. […] It sounded as if angels were singing […]. Everything they did and said was meant to be respectful towards the Sacrament and God. […] If I had to choose between going to the Traditional Latin Mass and a normal Mass, I would definitely choose the Traditional Latin Mass, because everyone there is very reverent, dressed nicely, and everything they do is for the honor and glory of God, not for the people like the regular Mass.”  ∼ Brett

    “I like the Latin language, and the way that it sounds is much more beautiful than the English language and is very fitting in a Mass. […] I think it gives the Body of Christ much more respect and the authority it deserves when the priest gives us the Eucharist by mouth when kneeling.”  ∼ Alex 1

    “The Mass itself just, to me, seemed right. The way that the priest was facing toward the altar seemed that he was talking more to God than he was to us, and I thought it was better. Also, I liked that we, as witnesses to the Eucharist, had to kneel when the priest was talking to God. The Mass seemed more like an offering to God. I also liked the way we had to receive the Eucharist.”  ∼ Alex 2

    “The music seemed to fit very nicely with the tone of the Mass, which allowed for a more reverent and beautiful Mass. When I went up for Communion, I noticed that we had to kneel in a line and Father would give us Communion on our tongues. I believe receiving on the tongue is a lot better in some ways than receiving in the hand.”  ∼ Blaine

    “I had a much easier time staying alert and focused, which is sometimes hard for me to do at regular Sunday Mass. […] I also noticed that everyone there, including the women, was dressed very modestly. This usually isn’t what you see in regular Sunday Mass, and without these distractions it was easier to spend my time focused on the priest instead of the people around me. Another thing that I noticed was that when I went up for Communion, I had the Body of Christ placed straight in my mouth, which was new for me, and it was much more humbling to have it placed directly in my mouth instead of me doing that myself. […] Although most of the Mass was said in a different language and it was hard to follow along, it was a lot more holy in my opinion, because I don’t speak that language, so it put me in a different mood than I would have been if I was speaking in the language I do every day.”  ∼ Tommy

    “I was speaking and listening to the prayers, blessings, and consecrations of the Mass in a language the earliest Christians used. […] It is truly amazing to experience something that has withstood the test of time, truly showing the power of Christ’s established Church, an extension of Christ’s Kingdom on earth, and demonstrating the eternal reign of Christ the King, as the Church, which has been persecuted and scrutinized since its beginning has remained one, holy, catholic, and apostolic through schisms, attempted destruction, and other evils.”  ∼ Drew
    The young people searching for what is relevant. 

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 01:45:01 PM »
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  • Yes, Poche, this was a great link you posted.  Thank you.

    However, in all charity, I have to challenge your view on the TLM, since you regularly post defenses of the V2 popes, most of whom were anti-TLM (especially +JPII and +Francis).  How do you reconcile your support of anti-TLM popes while promoting the TLM?


    Offline poche

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2019, 11:10:59 PM »
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  • Yes, Poche, this was a great link you posted.  Thank you.

    However, in all charity, I have to challenge your view on the TLM, since you regularly post defenses of the V2 popes, most of whom were anti-TLM (especially +JPII and +Francis).  How do you reconcile your support of anti-TLM popes while promoting the TLM?
    I don't see Pope Francis as an anti TLM Pope. When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires he went out of his way to help the SSPX with the Argentine immigration, something that no North American or European bishop would do. Many of his criticisms could equally apply to frozen liberal modernists also. (aka those who are attached to the dust of their failed modernist theories.)    

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #6 on: June 26, 2019, 08:57:38 AM »
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  • Quote
    I don't see Pope Francis as an anti TLM Pope. When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires...
    His actions as an archbishop are separate from those of his papacy.  I could link to 10+ articles of his papacy where he trashes Traditionalists and where he authorized closing Trad convents and masses.  If he's not anti-TLM, then it's not possible to be such.

    Offline poche

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 12:53:20 AM »
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  • His actions as an archbishop are separate from those of his papacy.  I could link to 10+ articles of his papacy where he trashes Traditionalists and where he authorized closing Trad convents and masses.  If he's not anti-TLM, then it's not possible to be such.
    There is more to the issue of the convent closing than what you have been told. There were allegations of sex abuse that were confirmed relating to the founder of that community. What he says critical of traditionalism can also be applied to others as well. Beware of those who live frozen in the ashes of the failed tradition of modernism.   


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 08:23:09 AM »
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    There is more to the issue of the convent closing than what you have been told.
    He has closed MULTIPLE trad convents since his papacy.  You defend one particular situation while ignoring the others.

    Quote
    What he says critical of traditionalism can also be applied to others as well.
    No.  Criticizing a specific liturgy is not a general statement.

    Quote
    Beware of those who live frozen in the ashes of the failed tradition of modernism. 
      50 years is not a tradition.  Modernism is not traditional, in any sense of the word.  +Francis still supports V2, the new mass and all things Modernistic.  What you fail to grasp is that Modernism is ever changing because it has not reached its goal yet - which is a one-world religion, where "diversity" no longer means a diversity of "catholic" liturgies (i.e. latin mass, english mass, spanish mass, charismatic mass, anglican-catholic mass, homosexual mass, etc), but there will be diversity of religions accepted as equal.  There is nothing Traditional about Modernism because it is all about change, and without stability there can be custom or heritage.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 01:03:21 PM »
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  • I don't see Pope Francis as an anti TLM Pope. When he was archbishop of Buenos Aires he went out of his way to help the SSPX with the Argentine immigration, something that no North American or European bishop would do. Many of his criticisms could equally apply to frozen liberal modernists also. (aka those who are attached to the dust of their failed modernist theories.)    
    Because he's not just anti-TLM. To be against the Mass of the Council of Trent and the Mass of the Ages is to be anti-Catholic. Period.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca

    Offline OHCA

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #10 on: July 05, 2019, 12:07:05 AM »
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  • . . . Many of his criticisms could equally apply to frozen liberal modernists also. (aka those who are attached to the dust of their failed modernist theories.)    
    What does it say about him that he chose to level criticism at tradition rather than modernism?

    “Could equally apply?”  Am I correct to infer that you find his criticism of tradition correct and just?  And how is your assertion that “his criticisms could equally apply to frozen liberal modernists also” supposed to make traditionalists any fonder of him?  The goofy old effeminate commie chose to level criticism at traditionalists.


    Offline SusanneT

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #11 on: July 05, 2019, 03:14:42 AM »
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  • In attendance at that presentation and Mass were a devout Catholic mother and—compulsorily—her 16-year-old son. .............................Afterward, he thanked his mother profusely for having brought him to the Mass, exclaiming, “That was the most beautiful, the most sacred thing I have ever seen!” Not only his excitement, but his word choice caught my attention: “sacred.” That is not a word most teenagers use every day. It prompted me to ponder our natural search for truth and beauty.

    https://www.crisismagazine.com/2019/first-reactions-of-teenage-boys-to-the-traditional-latin-mass
    I think it is a sad mistake to assume that young people want everything 'dumbed down' and 'modern' or that they want an easy moral path to follow.
    My experience from the young women in our Church group is that many want a sacred path to follow, they want Mass to be special, other worldly and spiritual, as women the very much want to veil (and feel comfortable among other women who are veiled) and above all they want very strong and clear moral guidance.

    Offline poche

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    Re: First Experience of the TLM
    « Reply #12 on: July 08, 2019, 08:25:46 AM »
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  • I think it is a sad mistake to assume that young people want everything 'dumbed down' and 'modern' or that they want an easy moral path to follow.
    My experience from the young women in our Church group is that many want a sacred path to follow, they want Mass to be special, other worldly and spiritual, as women the very much want to veil (and feel comfortable among other women who are veiled) and above all they want very strong and clear moral guidance.
    I think that is true of all the young people. They all want very clear moral guidance. And when they don't receive it that is when they are in danger of falling away. 

     

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