Author Topic: Family of four lives on 14K a year (Read 8496 times)

Nadir · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2013, 11:47:27 PM »

Ggreg, I know it's doable, because we have done it, with the exception that we have only ever had one car.

We also produced all our own electric power, and pumped our own water supply. We had very poor soil so growing vegies was possible but hard work.
We built our own home as the funds became available while we lived in an old house on the property.

We thrived.

We never were in debt to a bank.

We never had medical or house insurance.

We kept a record of every penny we spent (still do), have records going back to 1981.

People do it the world over.

ggreg · « **Reply #16 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:19:01 AM »

Quote from: Sede Catholic

Quote from: Matthew

...
Yes, everyone has that resource. It's called "youth" and "the time before you're married".

Young singles shouldn't act like they're on a perpetual vacation, with every dollar in their pocket just another token to spend on some game at Chuck-E-Cheese or an amusement park.

Singles should be as mature and thrifty as thirtysomethings with multiple children. Why not?

...

Yes. Exactly.
Thrift, and a modest lifestyle.
They are so vital, and yet so under-rated.
People need to be thrifty, and they need to not allow materialistic aspirations to ruin their spiritual lives.

But this lady, has two children and according to the article makes nearly everything in the home rather than buys items.

So looking around my home now, that means making clothes, crockery, bread from scratch, vases, knife rack, disinfectant, beer, single malt whiskey, a skipping rope, tea towels and a photograph album. Those are just a few articles of course.

When would she have time for a spiritual life?

What if she had 6 children like a Trad family might? Would she not eventually run out of time to manufacture her own goods?

ggreg · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:26:23 AM »

Follow up question.

Why is it less 'materialistic' to make a 4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming, rather than trade 30 hours of your labour for $200 and spend that $200 on a hand embroidered table cloth?

I agree it is more crafty and artistic, but why is it less materialistic?

ggreg · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:35:22 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

We never had medical or house insurance.

That is a risk most people would not wish to run. You got away with it, but a house fire or a fall from a tree could have put your family in financial trouble.

I am not over insured but I insure myself and my family against catastrophic losses where they seem statistically threatening. House burning down, me dying suddenly etc.

I don't have Volcano insurance when I fly, because it is a huge con for idiots who don't understand the risks and also because I could cover the costs whatever they were.

Here in the UK if you have a mortgage you MUST have buildings insurance which runs to about $500 per year. I don't have contents insurance because someone is always in and we have nothing really worth stealing. Not, that would exceed the deductible by very much anyway. I would rather replace what they stole and not bother filling in the claim form.

jen51 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:38:45 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Follow up question.

Why is it less 'materialistic' to make a 4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming, rather than trade 30 hours of your labour for $200 and spend that $200 on a hand embroidered table cloth?

I agree it is more crafty and artistic, but why is it less materialistic?

A 4x8 tablecloth would take about 30 minutes to make with a traditional sewing machine and about 20 minutes with a serger machine. You could purchase the fabric from a local thrift store for a couple $$.

jen51 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:47:45 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Sede Catholic
Quote from: Matthew

...
Yes, everyone has that resource. It's called "youth" and "the time before you're married".

Young singles shouldn't act like they're on a perpetual vacation, with every dollar in their pocket just another token to spend on some game at Chuck-E-Cheese or an amusement park.

Singles should be as mature and thrifty as thirtysomethings with multiple children. Why not?

...

Yes. Exactly.
Thrift, and a modest lifestyle.
They are so vital, and yet so under-rated.
People need to be thrifty, and they need to not allow materialistic aspirations to ruin their spiritual lives.

But this lady, has two children and according to the article makes nearly everything in the home rather than buys items.

So looking around my home now, that means making clothes, crockery, bread from scratch, vases, knife rack, disinfectant, beer, single malt whiskey, a skipping rope, tea towels and a photograph album. Those are just a few articles of course.

When would she have time for a spiritual life?

What if she had 6 children like a Trad family might? Would she not eventually run out of time to manufacture her own goods?

Ggreg, making the majority of things you own is not nearly as hard as you may think. Once a woman becomes profficient at these tasks, it becomes very simple, timely, and routine. A clever woman will find shortcuts in much of her homemaking endeavors to make things go quicker and be done with ease. For someone who is not use to this way of life, I can see why it would seem over the top and impractical. That's not the reality though. This way of life is practised by many and it works well for them.

ggreg · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2013, 11:13:34 AM »

Quote from: jen51

Quote from: ggreg
Follow up question.

Why is it less 'materialistic' to make a 4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming, rather than trade 30 hours of your labour for $200 and spend that $200 on a hand embroidered table cloth?

I agree it is more crafty and artistic, but why is it less materialistic?

A 4x8 tablecloth would take about 30 minutes to make with a traditional sewing machine and about 20 minutes with a serger machine. You could purchase the fabric from a local thrift store for a couple $$.

In that case go into business. You can work an 8 hour day and make a 1000 dollar profit per day.

Think of all the good you could do with that money like sponsoring holy priests and building chapels.

I think you are exaggerating and not taking into account all the input times and costs.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2013, 11:18:04 AM »

I'm very encouraged to see that people can live well on so little, and I hope they don't lose their health because if they do they might find it necessary to start buying ready-made items, or hiring people to do necessary work for them.

ggreg · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2013, 11:24:18 AM »

Quote from: jen51

.

Ggreg, making the majority of things you own is not nearly as hard as you may think. Once a woman becomes profficient at these tasks, it becomes very simple, timely, and routine. A clever woman will find shortcuts in much of her homemaking endeavors to make things go quicker and be done with ease. For someone who is not use to this way of life, I can see why it would seem over the top and impractical. That's not the reality though. This way of life is practised by many and it works well for them.

Jen, I am 44 years old and a very practical guy. I demolished and rebuilt the top half of my seven bedroom house two years ago with a small team of polish and russian builders and did the whole project inside 4 months. I can strip down a dishwasher, a gas oven, a boiler, a washing machine and generally fix them and get them working again. With motor cars, there is virtually nothing I don't understand and cannot fix, (assuming I have the specialised tools).

I could NOT make the majority of items in my home, nor would it be a practical use of my time to try. This is why modern economies have the division of labour, because the specialisation in certain tasks allows them to be done faster and more efficiently. Recently I called a uPVC window specialist in to realign a window. It was absolutely clear that even with all my practical DIY skill he had years of experience and all the right tools, aluminium rivets and knew immediately how everything fitted together. What took him 25 minutes would have taken me half a day, best case.

How for example would I go about making something as simple as a pencil? Or a toothbrush?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2013, 01:11:37 PM »

Quote from: jen51

Quote from: ggreg
Follow up question.

Why is it less 'materialistic' to make a 4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming, rather than trade 30 hours of your labour for $200 and spend that $200 on a hand embroidered table cloth?

I agree it is more crafty and artistic, but why is it less materialistic?

A 4x8 tablecloth would take about 30 minutes to make with a traditional sewing machine and about 20 minutes with a serger machine. You could purchase the fabric from a local thrift store for a couple $$.

Who needs a tablecloth?

http://moneysavingmom.com/2013/02/it-might-be-well-worn-and-scratched-but-we-love-our-craigslist-table.html

jen51 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2013, 02:43:43 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: jen51
.

Ggreg, making the majority of things you own is not nearly as hard as you may think. Once a woman becomes profficient at these tasks, it becomes very simple, timely, and routine. A clever woman will find shortcuts in much of her homemaking endeavors to make things go quicker and be done with ease. For someone who is not use to this way of life, I can see why it would seem over the top and impractical. That's not the reality though. This way of life is practised by many and it works well for them.

Jen, I am 44 years old and a very practical guy. I demolished and rebuilt the top half of my seven bedroom house two years ago with a small team of polish and russian builders and did the whole project inside 4 months. I can strip down a dishwasher, a gas oven, a boiler, a washing machine and generally fix them and get them working again. With motor cars, there is virtually nothing I don't understand and cannot fix, (assuming I have the specialised tools).

I could NOT make the majority of items in my home, nor would it be a practical use of my time to try. This is why modern economies have the division of labour, because the specialisation in certain tasks allows them to be done faster and more efficiently. Recently I called a uPVC window specialist in to realign a window. It was absolutely clear that even with all my practical DIY skill he had years of experience and all the right tools, aluminium rivets and knew immediately how everything fitted together. What took him 25 minutes would have taken me half a day, best case.

How for example would I go about making something as simple as a pencil? Or a toothbrush?

I should have thought twice before using the word majority. It wasn't the right word for what I was trying to communicate. The things I was thinking about were items such as clothes, tableclothes, curtains, etc. Stuff around the household that women have been known for making in ages past. Domestic things. Yes, I buy pencils, furniture, etc. And yeh, I also buy clothes and table clothes. What I'm saying is that the things this article speaks of are not far fetched. At all.

jen51 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2013, 02:47:28 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: jen51
Quote from: ggreg
Follow up question.

Why is it less 'materialistic' to make a 4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming, rather than trade 30 hours of your labour for $200 and spend that $200 on a hand embroidered table cloth?

I agree it is more crafty and artistic, but why is it less materialistic?

A 4x8 tablecloth would take about 30 minutes to make with a traditional sewing machine and about 20 minutes with a serger machine. You could purchase the fabric from a local thrift store for a couple $$.

Who needs a tablecloth?

http://moneysavingmom.com/2013/02/it-might-be-well-worn-and-scratched-but-we-love-our-craigslist-table.html

Aw. That's cute, Mater! I wouldn't bother using a tablecloth in that situation either. :)

Nadir · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2013, 03:40:58 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

I'm very encouraged to see that people can live well on so little, and I hope they don't lose their health because if they do they might find it necessary to start buying ready-made items, or hiring people to do necessary work for them.

You don't acquire health by spending big or lose it by DIY. Generally all of us deteriorate with age, whether we spend small or spend big.

In fact DIY can be very therapeutic, even if it is necessary.

And don't forget the debt-stress factor. Being in debt is not good for health.

Nadir · « **Reply #28 on:** March 02, 2013, 05:14:51 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Nadir

We never had medical or house insurance.

That is a risk most people would not wish to run. You got away with it, but a house fire or a fall from a tree could have put your family in financial trouble.

I am not over insured but I insure myself and my family against catastrophic losses where they seem statistically threatening. House burning down, me dying suddenly etc.

I don't have Volcano insurance when I fly, because it is a huge con for idiots who don't understand the risks and also because I could cover the costs whatever they were.

Here in the UK if you have a mortgage you MUST have buildings insurance which runs to about $500 per year. I don't have contents insurance because someone is always in and we have nothing really worth stealing. Not, that would exceed the deductible by very much anyway. I would rather replace what they stole and not bother filling in the claim form.

I am not recommending it. Just saying we don't do it. Besides we didn't have a mortgage and never felt "statistically threatened".

My point is that the story is credible. I suppose it's more likely to be possible to live in such a way in the new world, where I live, than in the old world.

Nadir · « **Reply #29 on:** March 02, 2013, 05:38:43 PM »

BTW, where did the "4x8 foot tablecloth which you spend 50 hours hand embroidering and 2 hours hemming" come from? Don't recall that.

All those electric appliances can be handy, but are not essential. All my dishwashers and breadmakers have been human! :wink:

As for her spiritual life, I don't know; but mine was enriched as I squeezed out my washing using the hand mangle. Perfect silence surrounded me! I still think wistfully about that time. Labora cuм ora!