Author Topic: Family of four lives on 14K a year (Read 8495 times)

Thursday · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2013, 06:04:50 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Ggreg, I know it's doable, because we have done it, with the exception that we have only ever had one car.

We also produced all our own electric power, and pumped our own water supply. We had very poor soil so growing vegies was possible but hard work.
We built our own home as the funds became available while we lived in an old house on the property.

We thrived.

We never were in debt to a bank.

We never had medical or house insurance.

We kept a record of every penny we spent (still do), have records going back to 1981.

People do it the world over.

Actually, I think this was the norm until perhaps the last 50 years. My grandparents could account for every penny. As far as buying a house I think the big problem is with the loans, that is if they made people pay 50% of the house price to qualify for a loan house house prices would be a lot cheaper. In Korea most people used to pay cash for their house, then it was 50% and now it's down to 10% and that's why house prices here keep going up.

If they required full payment for a house up front believe houses would be a lot cheaper.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #31 on:** March 02, 2013, 06:13:27 PM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: MariaCatherine
I'm very encouraged to see that people can live well on so little, and I hope they don't lose their health because if they do they might find it necessary to start buying ready-made items, or hiring people to do necessary work for them.

You don't acquire health by spending big or lose it by DIY. Generally all of us deteriorate with age, whether we spend small or spend big.

I never thought either of the things you seem to imply. I just see many of my neighbors who are on disability buying food from convenience stores because they can't physically get to the big discount stores, which generally require transportation by car just to get everything home. Not to mention the trouble they have getting the cans open, with their arthritis and whatnot.

Nadir · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2013, 07:28:09 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: MariaCatherine
I'm very encouraged to see that people can live well on so little, and I hope they don't lose their health because if they do they might find it necessary to start buying ready-made items, or hiring people to do necessary work for them.

You don't acquire health by spending big or lose it by DIY. Generally all of us deteriorate with age, whether we spend small or spend big.

I never thought either of the things you seem to imply. I just see many of my neighbors who are on disability buying food from convenience stores because they can't physically get to the big discount stores, which generally require transportation by car just to get everything home. Not to mention the trouble they have getting the cans open, with their arthritis and whatnot.

I get your drift, MariaCatherine. Yes that is hard, and is part and parcel of the breakdown of family, that such people have to struggle on alone. I suppose too the Church is failing in Her mission here.

Renzo · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2013, 08:06:16 PM »

It's amazing what you can get by without, when you put your mind to it. Of course, it seems like it would take a husband and wife on the same page, to accomplish something like this.

Renzo · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2013, 08:16:23 PM »

I wonder how you can generate your own electricity.

Nadir · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2013, 08:19:16 PM »

Quote from: Renzo

I wonder how you can generate your own electricity.

We used solar panels and deep cycle batteries. There are other ways of course.

Yes, husband and wife on the same page, is best. Or at least a spouse with :idea: and one who's very adaptable - that's me. :smile:

Robin · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2013, 08:36:12 PM »

Raising a family on Long Island..with ten children...we could account for every dime as well. Only ever owned, one car, never new, always paid in cash...hubby is 100% disabled Veteran who after working for over 40 years had to retire due to service connected disabilities, at age 61. Since we could account for every dime for years, this did not present a problem for us. Being home owners, now owning 2 vehicles, pick up and jeep, we were eligible for no help from anyone just had to wait on VA for disability award, which took 7 months and SS to kick in as in early retirement, turned into SSD after 6 months out of work, we managed. Had all we needed and as St Paul said ...." I have learned to be content in every state....................." and finally after months his private pensions kicked in as well. You must be faithful and learn. Having raised eleven children...yes we had one after our move to the mountains...you do learn to manage,

ggreg · « **Reply #37 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:07:58 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: Renzo
I wonder how you can generate your own electricity.

We used solar panels and deep cycle batteries. There are other ways of course.

Yes, husband and wife on the same page, is best. Or at least a spouse with :idea: and one who's very adaptable - that's me. :smile:

Right, solar panels that are made in large factories using incredibly sophisticated manufacturing techniques funded by taxpayers money very often and deep cycle batteries that you would not have a snowball's chance in Hell of making yourself.

If you want to convince yourself you are "generating your own electricity", go right ahead.

You are in fact simply at the consumer end of a large and very sophisticated economic, financing, government subsidy, tax and spend, shipping and advance manufacturing process without which you would be in the dark.

ggreg · « **Reply #38 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:15:49 AM »

Quote from: Robin

Raising a family on Long Island..with ten children...we could account for every dime as well. Only ever owned, one car, never new, always paid in cash...hubby is 100% disabled Veteran who after working for over 40 years had to retire due to service connected disabilities, at age 61. Since we could account for every dime for years, this did not present a problem for us. Being home owners, now owning 2 vehicles, pick up and jeep, we were eligible for no help from anyone just had to wait on VA for disability award, which took 7 months and SS to kick in as in early retirement, turned into SSD after 6 months out of work, we managed. Had all we needed and as St Paul said ...." I have learned to be content in every state....................." and finally after months his private pensions kicked in as well. You must be faithful and learn. Having raised eleven children...yes we had one after our move to the mountains...you do learn to manage,

Why pay cash today though? And how do you conveniently pay cash for things you buy on the Internet, saving money on the purchase cost as well as gas, parking charges and time?

The world has moved on.

I get 2.5 percent cash back on my credit card and pay it off at the end of ever month in full so never pay penalties or interest charges. If I buy something and it is rubbish I tell the credit card company and the merchant has to sort it out or refund me. I am insured for 90 days against loss or breakage. If fraud happens I am covered for it.

On a spend of 20k per year that is a saving of 500 dollars or 10 dollars a week on the credit card cash back alone.

Then there are affiliate cash back sites on the Internet. Last year I got 2500 dollars back from them for a whole range of things I had purchased over the web.

The only advantage I can see to paying cash is a certainly degree of anonymity and it makes it more difficult to go in to debt if you lack self-control.

ggreg · « **Reply #39 on:** March 03, 2013, 12:47:39 AM »

I still fail to see how this extreme thrift is sensible or desirable or more Catholic.

I am all for repairing stuff and "mend and make do", rather than going into debt and also because the feeling of self-reliance is rather fun. But if a husband and wife tag team have the time and energy to devote to making everything from Mayonnaise to Microwave generators, then why not spend the same time and energy running a simple business from home such as book-keeping, child care, dog walking, Easter Egg making and the rest of the alphabet of possibilities?

The division of labour means that, on average, you will be making far more money for your time and energy and you will need far less storage space for all those tools you will otherwise need. I have about 500 cubic feet of tools in my house alone, which must have cost me 15 to 20,000 dollars over the years easily. Probably more.

Why is it more Catholic to play as little part in the local, national and global economy as possible?

If we woke up tomorrow and the whole world lived like this, what would happen when the thrift stores ran out of old bed sheets for tablecloths and middle class people's drapes for making children's playclothes? Which they very soon would.

Does it not occur to you, that you can only live like this as a strange quirk of living within a first world post industrial economy. Try moving to Guatemala or the Philippines and deliberately living like this. The locals would think you a total fool and wonder why you were not teaching their children English instead then taking the money they paid you and buying goods and services from them.

Instructions for manufacturing the aeroplane to fly there are available on the inter-web. With your skills you should have it finished in about 4500 years.

Nadir · « **Reply #40 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:01:33 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: Renzo
I wonder how you can generate your own electricity.

We used solar panels and deep cycle batteries. There are other ways of course.

Yes, husband and wife on the same page, is best. Or at least a spouse with :idea: and one who's very adaptable - that's me. :smile:

Right, solar panels that are made in large factories using incredibly sophisticated manufacturing techniques funded by taxpayers money very often and deep cycle batteries that you would not have a snowball's chance in Hell of making yourself.

If you want to convince yourself you are "generating your own electricity", go right ahead.

You are in fact simply at the consumer end of a large and very sophisticated economic, financing, government subsidy, tax and spend, shipping and advance manufacturing process without which you would be in the dark.

What's up your nose? I don't convince myself of anything. I have nothing against being a consumer. We were not following any trend or fashion, or trying to be cool, or costing the govt any money. We did it because we thought electricity would be a good thing to have power, and there was none other available to us.

Nadir · « **Reply #41 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:10:48 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

I still fail to see how this extreme thrift is sensible or desirable or more Catholic.

...Why is it more Catholic to play as little part in the local, national and global economy as possible?

I don't believe that anybody on this thread has made any such claims.

I believe that most people who practice "extreme thrift" do so because they need to. It's simple as that.

ggreg · « **Reply #42 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:15:34 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: ggreg
Quote from: Nadir
Quote from: Renzo
I wonder how you can generate your own electricity.

We used solar panels and deep cycle batteries. There are other ways of course.

Yes, husband and wife on the same page, is best. Or at least a spouse with :idea: and one who's very adaptable - that's me. :smile:

Right, solar panels that are made in large factories using incredibly sophisticated manufacturing techniques funded by taxpayers money very often and deep cycle batteries that you would not have a snowball's chance in Hell of making yourself.

If you want to convince yourself you are "generating your own electricity", go right ahead.

You are in fact simply at the consumer end of a large and very sophisticated economic, financing, government subsidy, tax and spend, shipping and advance manufacturing process without which you would be in the dark.

What's up your nose? I don't convince myself of anything. I have nothing against being a consumer. We were not following any trend or fashion, or trying to be cool, or costing the govt any money. We did it because we thought electricity would be a good thing to have power, and there was none other available to us.

I was making a general comment on the simple minded idea that we can all opt out of the economy and be better off.

I find a similar irony here, to Islamic fundamentalists telling the Western world how evil and decadent it is and then using jet aircraft (Britain), explosives, (Sweden), cellphones, computers, video cameras and all manner of western developments to perform their Jihad against us.

It never seems to dawn on those Camel lovers that their culture has not produced anything in 1000 years. Literally, nothing.

ggreg · « **Reply #43 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:17:07 AM »

Quote from: Nadir

Quote from: ggreg
I still fail to see how this extreme thrift is sensible or desirable or more Catholic.

...Why is it more Catholic to play as little part in the local, national and global economy as possible?

I don't believe that anybody on this thread has made any such claims.

I believe that most people who practice "extreme thrift" do so because they need to. It's simple as that.

Why do they need to? Why not channel the same energy into earning money rather than saving it. Is there something evil about earning and holy about saving?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #44 on:** March 03, 2013, 01:19:01 AM »

Quote from: ggreg

Why pay cash today though? And how do you conveniently pay cash for things you buy on the Internet, saving money on the purchase cost as well as gas, parking charges and time?

The world has moved on.

I get 2.5 percent cash back on my credit card and pay it off at the end of ever month in full so never pay penalties or interest charges. If I buy something and it is rubbish I tell the credit card company and the merchant has to sort it out or refund me. I am insured for 90 days against loss or breakage. If fraud happens I am covered for it.

On a spend of 20k per year that is a saving of 500 dollars or 10 dollars a week on the credit card cash back alone.

Then there are affiliate cash back sites on the Internet. Last year I got 2500 dollars back from them for a whole range of things I had purchased over the web.

The only advantage I can see to paying cash is a certainly degree of anonymity and it makes it more difficult to go in to debt if you lack self-control.

Just wondering... it's now legal here for a vendor to charge you more if you wish to pay with a credit card. (Was formerly against the vendor's contract with the CC company, but MC & Visa were sued for this and lost.) Is the same true there in the UK?