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Author Topic: How to handle non-Catholic family members that constantly sin around me?  (Read 1612 times)

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Offline Patriley

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Hi there,

I just wanted a word of advice. I still live at home and have to interact with my family a lot, all of which have lost their faith or have no faith at all. They all commit, even mortal sin, around me and I'm wondering, what does God ask of me in this situation? Am I obliged to constantly keep nagging them - to stop doing this or that, even though I've done that and they keep going back to that same sin? It all seems to fall on deaf ears.

I'm not supposed to ignore evil, condone it or keep silent when I see it. That's actually a sin for me to do that, so I'm at a loss as to what to think. Do I spend my whole life nagging them constantly, even though it doesn't seem to help them? Should I cut them off altogether because they're seriously offending God? 

Anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? Especially anyone that has the same situation as me. Thanks a lot!

Offline Ladislaus

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St. Thomas teaches that were are required to rebuke the sinner only if we judge that are rebukes will have a positive effect.  In some cases, if we feel it'll have the opposite effect, i.e., where they may react by doubling down and becoming more obstinate, we may even be required to withhold a rebuke.  So it's a matter or prudence.

So, if you judge that it's doing no good, you've done what you're required to do, and you don't have to keep "nagging" them.  You may find some opportune moment to sneak a comment in, just to remind them so the don't forget.  But, in the end, as I said, it's a prudential judgment.  This can lead to a kind of scrupulosity that you're constantly required to rebuke everyone.


Offline AnthonyPadua

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St. Thomas teaches that were are required to rebuke the sinner only if we judge that are rebukes will have a positive effect.  In some cases, if we feel it'll have the opposite effect, i.e., where they may react by doubling down and becoming more obstinate, we may even be required to withhold a rebuke.  So it's a matter or prudence.

So, if you judge that it's doing no good, you've done what you're required to do, and you don't have to keep "nagging" them.  You may find some opportune moment to sneak a comment in, just to remind them so the don't forget.  But, in the end, as I said, it's a prudential judgment.  This can lead to a kind of scrupulosity that you're constantly required to rebuke everyone.
This is good advice. I have tried telling my family members and coworkers not to use the Lord's name in vain (most do it out of bad habit) but it availed to nothing. It falls on deaf ears. Greater sins still, I have tried rebuking, this caused an extreme reaction and as one would say "added sin to sin".

Lad is right on scrupulosity. It's impossible to 'nag' everyone constantly, and it won't do much for them most of the time. I mainly just pray for them now.

Quote
Don't rebuke a fool lest he hate you

The Saints teach that this does not mean we should not rebuke others due to fear of being hated by them, but rather not to rebuke them that will add sins to their sins.

Offline Crayolcold

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Hi there,

I just wanted a word of advice. I still live at home and have to interact with my family a lot, all of which have lost their faith or have no faith at all. They all commit, even mortal sin, around me and I'm wondering, what does God ask of me in this situation? Am I obliged to constantly keep nagging them - to stop doing this or that, even though I've done that and they keep going back to that same sin? It all seems to fall on deaf ears.

I'm not supposed to ignore evil, condone it or keep silent when I see it. That's actually a sin for me to do that, so I'm at a loss as to what to think. Do I spend my whole life nagging them constantly, even though it doesn't seem to help them? Should I cut them off altogether because they're seriously offending God?

Anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? Especially anyone that has the same situation as me. Thanks a lot!

My advice, at least for a man, would be to leave the situation entirely and move out. Living around mortal sin can have the possibility of making one desensitized to it and give up seeing it as grave of a matter as it truly is. 

I have heard of male Traditional Catholics in extremely similar situations living with family members outside the faith who sin grievously and in the most horrible ways; and I have heard what advice priests have given them -- which is to move out if they are financially stable. 

I do not know how old you are or if you have the means to move out or if you are in school which would make you dependent on your family, but it may be something to consider. I know the best answer is always "talk to a priest" but I know the whole reason people ask questions on here is because they either cannot get to a priest right away or they just want help from their friends and peers which there is nothing wrong with. Still, a Traditional priest would be helpful.

Keep praying for them that they return to the faith and do not become bitter against them, if they knew the true and eternal ramifications of their actions they would not behave in this way.
Pray for me

Offline Patriley

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My advice, at least for a man, would be to leave the situation entirely and move out. Living around mortal sin can have the possibility of making one desensitized to it and give up seeing it as grave of a matter as it truly is.

I have heard of male Traditional Catholics in extremely similar situations living with family members outside the faith who sin grievously and in the most horrible ways; and I have heard what advice priests have given them -- which is to move out if they are financially stable.

I do not know how old you are or if you have the means to move out or if you are in school which would make you dependent on your family, but it may be something to consider. I know the best answer is always "talk to a priest" but I know the whole reason people ask questions on here is because they either cannot get to a priest right away or they just want help from their friends and peers which there is nothing wrong with. Still, a Traditional priest would be helpful.

Keep praying for them that they return to the faith and do not become bitter against them, if they knew the true and eternal ramifications of their actions they would not behave in this way.
Moving out for me isn't an option but thanks for the advice. It's very helpful. If I ever get the opportunity please God, I'll move out definitely. But until then I suppose I'll take it as being God's will for now and do my best with the help of God to still be charitable to them and show them a good example. Thanks for the response. (I'm a woman btw).


Offline Patriley

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St. Thomas teaches that were are required to rebuke the sinner only if we judge that are rebukes will have a positive effect.  In some cases, if we feel it'll have the opposite effect, i.e., where they may react by doubling down and becoming more obstinate, we may even be required to withhold a rebuke.  So it's a matter or prudence.

So, if you judge that it's doing no good, you've done what you're required to do, and you don't have to keep "nagging" them.  You may find some opportune moment to sneak a comment in, just to remind them so the don't forget.  But, in the end, as I said, it's a prudential judgment.  This can lead to a kind of scrupulosity that you're constantly required to rebuke everyone.
Thanks for the reply. I suppose I'll pray for prudence then. Some good things there for me to think about, appreciate your help.

Offline EWPJ

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Hi there,

I just wanted a word of advice. I still live at home and have to interact with my family a lot, all of which have lost their faith or have no faith at all. They all commit, even mortal sin, around me and I'm wondering, what does God ask of me in this situation? Am I obliged to constantly keep nagging them - to stop doing this or that, even though I've done that and they keep going back to that same sin? It all seems to fall on deaf ears.

I'm not supposed to ignore evil, condone it or keep silent when I see it. That's actually a sin for me to do that, so I'm at a loss as to what to think. Do I spend my whole life nagging them constantly, even though it doesn't seem to help them? Should I cut them off altogether because they're seriously offending God?

Anyone have any advice or words of wisdom? Especially anyone that has the same situation as me. Thanks a lot!

The bolded and underlined should be the goal (if they don't change.)  I've gone through this personally and lost pretty much all of my family and "friends" because of The Faith.  Read Matthew 10:31-40 and Luke 18:29-30.  The Faith is incompatible with the world and worldly people and if they are an occasion of sin for us we have to do everything we can to cut ties if they won't change their ways.  Why is it that you cannot move out at this time?

You should of course pray for them and offer penance and mortification for them that they change their ways but as some have stated, constantly nagging can make things worse, and at least you tried, but some are very bad willed and so in love with sin that constantly rebuking them can have the opposite effect.     

It's tough, but we are called to love Christ and carry the cross, and He has to be our number 1 always.  One should never make an idol out of family, friends, (or anything), etc.  I know this can be tough to go through, especially if you are a "people" person.

Offline Pax Vobis

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The Faith is incompatible with the world and worldly people and if they are an occasion of sin for us we have to do everything we can to cut ties if they won't change their ways. 
Yes and no.


1.  If they are an occasion of sin, yes, you have to cut them out of your life.  And hopefully, in the future, they won't be, so you can bring them back into your life.
2.  If they aren't an occasion of sin, but simply an annoyance or a suffering, then you grin and bear it.  You suffer with a smile, so that they see the love of Christ in your life.  You be extra charitable to them, so they see the joy of your new religion and then, one day, they will want to know what Catholicism is all about.  The early Christians converted thousands simply by being meek, humble and happy in the face of persecutions, trials and chaos.

You'd have to provide more specifics to get a better answer.


Quote
Should I cut them off altogether because they're seriously offending God?
No, then that would mean you'd cut off engaging with probably 99.99% of people ever born, including yourself.


Quote
The bolded and underlined should be the goal (if they don't change.) 
As you wrote this (maybe you meant something slightly different), I disagree.  If you meant that we must cut off occasions of sin, even in family/friends, I agree.  But you don't cut off these people just because they're sinners.  Your job is to be friendly, be charitable and (in the case of family) you still have obligations towards them.  If they still act civil/friendly towards you, but they just disagree with your religion (or don't care), there's no reason to cut them off.  In fact, they might take offense and think your new-found religion is making you a "snob" then hate God/religion even more.


Most of the time, family/friends that don't like your religion will naturally start to exclude you from events/plans.  Let them "cut you off" if possible.  That way, it's their decision and you won't be the bad guy.


Online Seraphina

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I see you’re female and can’t move out, so it’s hard to give advice without knowing a bit more.  Your age?  Relationship to the errant family members?  State of life and duties?  If you’re 38, single, gainfully employed, and renting a room at your pagan cousins’ house, sure, move out.  Lots of people rent rooms where minimal interaction is required.  But I don’t think that’s your situation.
If you’re 14, in school, and have recently converted or discovered your REAL faith, then no, leaving isn’t an option unless something illegal and grossly immoral is directly harming you and perhaps other innocent parties.  (Human trafficking, the house is used for cooking meth, drug dealing and use, one or more persons is sɛҳuąƖly abusing others, extreme neglect or physical abuse, etc.)  
If it is a matter of sins whose continually grating on your nerves, swearing, using Holy Names as profanity, lying, gossip, disrespect, lack of order, improper dress, laziness, purchasing items they can’t afford, addiction to internet, overuse of alcohol, smoking weed, cohabitation, casual hook-ups, bad music…I’m sorry to say this is “normal” for many, many people.  A woman who nags is soon tuned out, sooner even, than a man.  You say “rebuke;” is that your place?  A mother may rebuke her child, even her adult child, but it is out of God’s order to rebuke your father or your brother, for example.  It’s not wrong to state the truth and how its violation affects you.  It’s wise to place boundaries on certain behaviors as they relate to yourself.  
An example, a certain cousin of mine requested my help in cleaning her car.  I agreed and she (predictably) kept using God’s Name in vain. After the first time, I gave her my “look.”  The second time I reminded her that it was wrong and I found it offensive.  The third time I informed her if I heard it again, my assistance would come to a stop because I had an exam needing study at the library.  I didn’t allow her to argue by never responding to verbal jabs.  When she swore the fourth time, I switched off the vacuum cleaner, showed her where I’d left off, and said something like, “You’re car will look years newer when it’s done,” as I exited the garage.  Yes, she got upset, but I didn’t nag, didn’t argue.  I just removed myself from the situation and did something else. I set a specific boundary and enforced it with action, no words. 
You might try something similar suited to your situation.  Be sure, though, to pick and choose your battles.  Pray to the Holy Ghost for the gift of wisdom.  

Offline Soubirous

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If you can't realistically move out, then ask the Holy Trinity, Mary, Joseph, all the angels and saints to strengthen you and give you enough patience to know when and when not to speak. Try not to stew silently but instead have faith and hope that you'll be guided in the moment. Then be consistent and diligent in your Confessions, daily prayers and other devotions. Recommended: several of the Psalms, also the Holy Ghost Novena. It helps too to learn about Saints who had difficult families. Maybe stash a few Green Scapulars around the house.

It will take time and perhaps even a few temporary setbacks, but little by little the difference will become noticeable, perhaps not in their behavior, but more in your ability to bear with them. Who knows, a change in your approach might even make them want to change themselves. And if they don't anytime soon, it's also possible that the Lord is making use of them in some way, but that may not become clear for a while either.  :pray:
Let nothing disturb you, let nothing frighten you, all things pass away: God never changes. Patience obtains all things. He who has God finds he lacks nothing; God alone suffices. - St. Teresa of Jesus

Offline Nadir

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  • It helps too to learn about Saints who had difficult families. Maybe stash a few Green Scapulars around the house.
    Patriley, in the women's section you can find some great examples in the thread "Women Saints", especially St Germaine. You will find her a great inspiration.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/women-only/women-saints/
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline Patriley

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  • I see you’re female and can’t move out, so it’s hard to give advice without knowing a bit more.  Your age?  Relationship to the errant family members?  State of life and duties?  If you’re 38, single, gainfully employed, and renting a room at your pagan cousins’ house, sure, move out.  Lots of people rent rooms where minimal interaction is required.  But I don’t think that’s your situation.
    If you’re 14, in school, and have recently converted or discovered your REAL faith, then no, leaving isn’t an option unless something illegal and grossly immoral is directly harming you and perhaps other innocent parties.  (Human trafficking, the house is used for cooking meth, drug dealing and use, one or more persons is sɛҳuąƖly abusing others, extreme neglect or physical abuse, etc.) 
    If it is a matter of sins whose continually grating on your nerves, swearing, using Holy Names as profanity, lying, gossip, disrespect, lack of order, improper dress, laziness, purchasing items they can’t afford, addiction to internet, overuse of alcohol, smoking weed, cohabitation, casual hook-ups, bad music…I’m sorry to say this is “normal” for many, many people.  A woman who nags is soon tuned out, sooner even, than a man.  You say “rebuke;” is that your place?  A mother may rebuke her child, even her adult child, but it is out of God’s order to rebuke your father or your brother, for example.  It’s not wrong to state the truth and how its violation affects you.  It’s wise to place boundaries on certain behaviors as they relate to yourself. 
    An example, a certain cousin of mine requested my help in cleaning her car.  I agreed and she (predictably) kept using God’s Name in vain. After the first time, I gave her my “look.”  The second time I reminded her that it was wrong and I found it offensive.  The third time I informed her if I heard it again, my assistance would come to a stop because I had an exam needing study at the library.  I didn’t allow her to argue by never responding to verbal jabs.  When she swore the fourth time, I switched off the vacuum cleaner, showed her where I’d left off, and said something like, “You’re car will look years newer when it’s done,” as I exited the garage.  Yes, she got upset, but I didn’t nag, didn’t argue.  I just removed myself from the situation and did something else. I set a specific boundary and enforced it with action, no words.
    You might try something similar suited to your situation.  Be sure, though, to pick and choose your battles.  Pray to the Holy Ghost for the gift of wisdom. 
    Thanks. I think prayers are my greatest help at the moment. Just worry I'm not defending God enough when they blaspheme. Holy Ghost prayers is a good suggestion. Thanks for the reply.

    Offline Patriley

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  • If you can't realistically move out, then ask the Holy Trinity, Mary, Joseph, all the angels and saints to strengthen you and give you enough patience to know when and when not to speak. Try not to stew silently but instead have faith and hope that you'll be guided in the moment. Then be consistent and diligent in your Confessions, daily prayers and other devotions. Recommended: several of the Psalms, also the Holy Ghost Novena. It helps too to learn about Saints who had difficult families. Maybe stash a few Green Scapulars around the house.

    It will take time and perhaps even a few temporary setbacks, but little by little the difference will become noticeable, perhaps not in their behavior, but more in your ability to bear with them. Who knows, a change in your approach might even make them want to change themselves. And if they don't anytime soon, it's also possible that the Lord is making use of them in some way, but that may not become clear for a while either.  :pray:
    Thanks so much for the detailed response. I need to get some green scapulars blessed actually.

    Offline Patriley

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  • Patriley, in the women's section you can find some great examples in the thread "Women Saints", especially St Germaine. You will find her a great inspiration.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/women-only/women-saints/
    Thank you!