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Offline Matthew

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Extreme parents
« on: January 21, 2011, 12:34:14 PM »
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  • Atlanta, Georgia (CNN) -- "You know you're an extreme parent if your child, who does not have a docuмented learning disability, has more than three tutors."

    "You know you're an extreme parent if you imagine that your child is going to play professional sports even though no coach has predicted this outcome."

    "You know you're an extreme parent if you have your child take 30 practice SAT exams before the actual test."

    One more?

    "You know you're an extreme parent if the school decides to suspend your seventh-grader for doing something wrong and you show up at the school with a notebook full of laminated pages that contain every gold star, every sticker and every congratulatory comment any teacher ever made about your child in elementary school and claim that your child cannot possibly be suspended because he has always been 'so good.' "

    Those real-life examples come from Michael Thompson, a psychologist who has seen extreme parenting on the front lines for many years -- and who has been called in by hyper-achievement schools all over America to guide parents on how to tone it down.

    Thompson is the author of many books on parenting, including co-writing "Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Life of Boys."

    Thompson is sensitive to all of us caring parents who want the best for our children -- who want to give them every possible advantage in life.

    But he warns many parents overestimate their roles in a child's development -- which can lead to extreme behavior and a skewed sense of how are children are doing.

    Going to extreme measures for child athletes

    He recalls a mother who challenged her son's high school guidance counselor after he suggested several colleges based on the student's academics.

    When she expressed her disappointment, the guidance counselor explained, "Your son is not in the top half of the class."

    The mother's response: "Yes, but nobody told me he was in the bottom half."

    Extreme parenting is driven by the parent who believes "they are the engine of how their children will turn out," Thompson says.

    The trouble comes when parents cross the line from healthy involvement to trying to pave a straight line to success.

    And it's not always a bright line.

    About 10 years ago, Psychology Today columnist Hara Estroff Marano began investigating a dramatic rise in depression on college campuses. She spoke to about 400 people on the front lines of college counseling.

    Why is this happening? she asked them all. And in almost every case she says she got the same answer: "These kids have no coping skills. They'd been overprotected by parents who were pushing them to achieve -- who were shielding them from bumps to have a straight shot at success."

    That helps inform Marano's view of extreme parenting -- which involves parents who don't give their children enough latitude to experience failure.

    "You know you're an extreme parent when you take over tasks for your kids," Marano says.

    You solve their math problems for them. You ask them to do something, like tie their shoes, and get impatient, so you end up tying them.

    More from the Marano files:

    "You know you're an extreme parent when you make a trip to school to deliver a paper or homework that the child left at home."

    In other words, children must experience the consequences of their mistakes. They must be given the opportunity to fail.

    "You know you're an extreme parent when you plan your kids' college classes," Marano says.

    You're pulling my leg, I said. No, she says. It happens.

    "You know you're an extreme parent if you've ever told your kid that second best is not good enough," she adds.

    Here's where Marano can get all of us parents passionate about giving our children the opportunity to develop the best inside them.

    "It's critical that your children experience what it's like to muster your internal resources (and reach) for a goal you're not sure you can reach," Marano says.

    "When the goal is in sight, (sprint) to it," she says. "That's when maximum happiness is generated in the brain. It's that last final sprint (that's key) ... when you're not 100 percent sure you're going to make it."

    Ayelet Waldman, a Harvard Law School grad and former criminal defense attorney, is a mother of four and author of, among other books, a parenting memoir called "Bad Mother," which she says she hopes can help take the guilt out of not being the perfect mother.

    Being an extreme parent, she says, has something to do with the belief that you are solely responsible for your child's success or failure.

    That's the mistake she believes has been made by Amy Chua, author of the new book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother," whose ultra-strict parenting techniques have triggered such a ferocious reaction.

    "You know you're an extreme parent when you convince yourself that what your child achieves or fails to achieve is solely the result of what you've done or failed to do," Waldman says.

    When you think you have that much control, she says, it can lead to extreme parental behavior.

    "One mother wrote me, is it really OK to have her 6-month-old crawl two miles a day," says Temple University psychology professor Kathy Hirsh-Pasek. "She found that after a mile her child was getting tired."

    Here's another one from the Hirsh-Pasek files: "You know you're an extreme parent when you're convinced your second-grade son is having more fun doing the Kumon advanced math program than watching Saturday morning cartoons."

    And here's that theme again that ties it all together -- the one we heard over and over again as we surveyed child psychologists and development experts: You know you're an extreme parent when you believe your kid is turning out the way he is solely because of you -- that you are the master.

    In development terms, Hirsh-Pasek frames it as two competing views of children:

    1) A child is an empty vessel to be micromanaged by you.

    2) A child is a discoverer, an explorer, and you are his or her guide.

    So we now have plenty of examples of "You know you're an extreme parent if . ..." Hirsh-Pasek has provided the next challenge for parents: "You know you are a great guide to your child if. ... "
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #1 on: January 21, 2011, 01:56:11 PM »
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  • Another problem is when a parent neglects the child because they get good grades - assuming things are fine.


    Offline Matthew

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 02:17:19 PM »
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  • Apparently a lot of the "busybody" type moms -- the ones who will call Child Protection on you for frivolous reasons -- had abortion(s) earlier in their life, and are over-compensating.

    You know, the moms who are totally over-protective of their kids? Not saying ALL of them are thus because of a previous abortion, but it does make sense.

    I also wonder about the old women in their 60's wearing gaudy amounts of makeup, clothes, Jєωelry, trying desperately to look young and/or beautiful -- because, after all, they KILLED ONE OR MORE OF THEIR BABIES for their looks, to be sexy, have pleasure, vacations -- they're CERTAINLY going to grab those things now, since they were so hard won!

    Such a woman won't grow old gracefully -- she can't. She gave up too much to get where she is. Problem is, it all goes away with age.

    Again, not saying every make-up wearer or vain woman had an abortion (after all, vanity is the bane of the female sex -- just as men tend to have their own predominant faults) -- but I bet whatever caused a woman to have an abortion will continue to be an inordinate attachment for her.

    Make sense.

    Matthew
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    Offline copticruiser

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #3 on: February 10, 2011, 01:02:54 AM »
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  • I really look for those kind faced grandmotherly type ladies. Unfortuanately I mostly see these old ladies trying to dress and act like their 20? I find them moody, selfish, quick to anger I dont care for them at all. The ones I personally know are either divorced and remarried or had alife time of birth control pill only raising the perfect 2 child family. Not sure what drives some of these women but really missing the days when mothers and grandmothers were a little more balanced. Cook, clean, pray, raise a family, plant a garden, be charitable I guess self sacrificing. Too many now are running around trying to get no where just chasing their tails and busy talking about nothing on their cell phones. I sure admire them ole homesteader type women. They sure had something to be proud about and their catholic faith was strong.

    Offline Matthew

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #4 on: February 10, 2011, 10:40:03 AM »
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  • Yes, you seem to know what I mean. Very good description.

    I wish the "dress and act like age 20" type were more rare, but unfortunately it's not.

    Matthew
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    Offline ora pro me

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #5 on: February 10, 2011, 07:52:16 PM »
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  • Gosh, you guys need to broaden your circle of friends/aquaintances.  The women that I know are good Catholic women who are living lives devoted to their Catholic Faith.  Of course, you're talking about women "out in the world", right? Even then I sincerely hope that most women haven't had an abortion.  I can't say that I ever think, "Gee, that woman probably had an abortion."  Nope, don't think that has ever crossed my mind, since it's none of my business, but if it does, I'll be sure to say a prayer for the woman.

    I met a woman once who had an abortion in her teen years and was making reparation for that heinous act as much as she knew best.  She was not a Catholic, but was sincerely remorseful and doing the best she could think of to make up for her killing her baby, by having as many children as she could.  Luckily her husband was on the same page with her and so they were expecting their 7th or 8th when I met her and this was quite a few years ago and she was still pretty young so she still could've had quite a large family. We've lost touch with that family over the years so I don't know.  

    She told me her story because when I met them, their youngest had just died and they did not know why.  It was called SIDS, but who knows what the cause was?  They were then grieving for 2 babies and theirs was a sad grief, but the woman accepted this grief in reparation for murdering her 1st baby, when she was a teen.  I don't know if the husband was also the aborted baby's father, but he was the kind of father that was very devoted to his family.

    I tell this story because at the time, I was reading about many women who were suffering from the remorse of abortion and were looking for ways to make reparation and the most common way to do that for them was to have other children.  They realized of course, that no children would ever replace the one that was murdered, but it was the only way that they knew to make reparation.  If they were Catholics there would be other ways as well to make reparation to Our Lord, but still, cooperating with God in bringing other children into the world would still be their primary way to make reparation, I would think.  

    Since this topic is about extreme parents, I'll add something along that topic.

    I agree that kids have to be allowed to make their own mistakes.  The lessons that they learn from their mistakes are well learned lessons.  I wouldn't say that they need to be allowed to make any and every mistake, though, since they do need to be protected from some mistakes - sins or things dangerous to their health.  As this post is already too long, I'll let someone else carry on.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Extreme parents
    « Reply #6 on: February 10, 2011, 08:01:35 PM »
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  • Quote
    Nope, don't think that has ever crossed my mind, since it's none of my business


    Everyone has a right to their reputation but certainly it is understandable why a man does not want to marry such a woman.

    I'm sick and tired of the feminism I see among traditional Catholics.  Feminist attitudes which deny honor and dignity to young women who lead chaste and innocent lives (innocent of murder) in order to lift up women who do not deserve to be highly regarded as potential spouses.

    No man needs to apologize for wanting to marry a younger woman, a woman who is a virgin, a woman who has not had an abortion.

    While it's true we cannot always know the truth about people and we should think the best of them, it is really too much to take, this arrogant attitude that we should pretend it makes no difference, and that men have no right to consider such things.

    Offline ora pro me

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    « Reply #7 on: February 10, 2011, 11:07:58 PM »
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  • Telesphorus,
    Are you saying that you can tell a woman who has had an abortion from a woman who has had one?  I can't.  The woman that I mentioned above was a modestly dressed woman who was a devoted wife and mother.  She wasn't Catholic but was some type of Christian.  I would never have guessed that she had an abortion as a teenager.  I was a stranger to her, which is perhaps why she shared her story with me. It is docuмented that most women who have had abortions are tormented for the rest of their lives with remorse and/or guilt.  





    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 11:27:55 PM »
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  • One can make reasonable judgments about probabilities.

    Especially if one marries a virgin.


    Offline copticruiser

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    « Reply #9 on: February 11, 2011, 12:18:56 AM »
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  • I have similar sentiments with ORA PRO ME  I wasnt to focused on the abortion issue as I know its a mortal sin but many do commit mortal sins especially in our youth and catholics have the HUGE advantage of using the sacraments.

    I dont tend to hold sins against anyone who has repented and approached the sacraments. After all our sins may be red as scarlet but our lord makes then white as snow.

    Ironically on this subject I just got excommunicated by my extended family for voicing my opinion on a siblings shack up decison with his future wife. I got more tongue lashing from the Novus Order Catholics  than anyone. I stood firm I kept it as factual and non judgmental as possible but I guess sin is sin. I shouldnt point it out even if I do care. Crazy world like Don Bosco said some of his boys were Running to Hell locked arm in arm? People think their gonna live forever? Oh yeah reinincarnation  I guess they think they just keeping coming back over and over again and life has no consquence. What happens when they find out their wrong?? Ewwwh scary thought. Glad Im catholic, Mary hold our hand and get us into Heaven please.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 11:57:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: copticruiser
    I have similar sentiments with ORA PRO ME  I wasnt to focused on the abortion issue as I know its a mortal sin but many do commit mortal sins


    Do many commit murder?  They say men commit murder more than women but far more women are murderers.

    Yes, abortion is murder.

     


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 01:25:15 PM »
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  • Yes, but who is more guilty?

    The first man who pulls the trigger, or the second man who forced/cajoled/insisted that the first man do it? What if a second man PAID the first man to do it?

    The boyfriend insisting on an abortion is almost a stereotype -- there HAS to be some basis in fact.

    Women are, by nature, more docile and they are supposed to be led by men -- it's how God designed them. So when men give them awful advice, the men are at least partly to blame for what happens.

    There ARE many ways to sin -- by consent, by counsel, by example, by neglect, etc.

    And when you counsel a mortal sin -- that's a mortal sin.

    Matthew
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