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Offline Matthew

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Ex-Catholics abound in the USA
« on: June 19, 2012, 12:29:41 PM »
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  • According to a 2008 poll, 31% of Americans were raised Catholic, but only 24% describe themselves as Catholic.

    June 19th, 2012

    'Recovering Catholics' reveal spiritual journeys
    By Jim Spellman, CNN

    Denver (CNN) - Kristen Kelly was raised Roman Catholic, attended Catholic elementary school and considered herself a good Catholic, but when she was 21-years-old that changed.

    “A coworker asked me if I believe in Jesus Christ,” she says.

    Despite spending her entire life in the Roman Catholic Church she couldn’t answer the question.

    “I never really got exposed to Christ," she says. "It was more about Mary and the Church and a condemnation of everything I was doing wrong.”

    She looked at her coworker and saw someone who appeared to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and decided that was what she wanted. She said this prayer:

    “Jesus I accept that you are my lord and savior, and I ask you to come into my life.”

    CNN’s Belief Blog: The faith angles behind the biggest stories

    And from that moment Kelly, now 41 and living in Florida, considered herself born-again, and an ex-Catholic.

    “I like to call us recovering Catholics,” she says with a laugh.

    According to a 2008 study by the Pew Forum on Religious Life and Public Life, 31% of Americans were raised Catholic, but only 24% now describe themselves as Catholic. Read the study (PDF).

    That means about 1 in 10 Americans is an ex-Catholic. If they were a denomination they would be bigger than Methodists, Baptists, Lutherans and P resbyterians.

    The total U.S. Catholic population has remained at about 24%, as immigrants have filled the pews the ex-Catholics have left behind.

    Video: Why do some Catholic outsiders remain inside the flock?  

    Kathleen cuмmings , associate director at the Cushwa Center for the Study of American Catholicism at Notre Dame, says that some people leave the Catholic Church after a defining event like the priest abuse scandals or because of a disagreement with the Church over social issues, but most leave because they feel their needs are not being met.

    “They are not experiencing something that fulfills them spiritually,” cuмmings says.

    Church supporters are urging wayward Catholics to return to the fold. For example, Catholics Come Home, a nonprofit lay organization formed in 1997, has been putting out the welcome mat via the media.

    The group has an interactive website www.Catholicscomehome.org and airs what it calls “evangomercials” on radio and television. The group says that since 2008 more than 350,000 people have “come home” to the Catholic Church through their campaign.

    Tom Peterson, president of Catholics Come Home, says some worshipers who've returned to the Catholic Church report leaving because they had disagreements with church officials or had divorced and feared they wouldn’t be welcome. But, he says, the majority never really gave up on the Church.

    “They just drifted away and life got too busy," Peterson says. "Most say they didn’t dislike the Church, nor were they opposed to the Church teachings.

    “An overwhelming majority of returnees tell our diocesan partners that they came home to the Catholic Church, 'because you invited me,'" he says.

    But it may not be so simple to lure back ex-Catholics like Matt Rowe, a 35-year-old married father of two living in Denver. Rowe attended 16 years of Catholic School in Illinois and attended a Catholic university.

    But by the end of college, Rowe was adrift. He found himself disagreeing with the Church on everything from the role of women to the concept of original sin and what he saw as the Catholic Church’s dependence on guilt as a motivating factor.

    Rowe gave up on religion for most of his 20s but never stopped believing in God. When he got married and had kids, he started feeling a void in his life.

    “I wanted my kids to grow up in a religion, but not Catholicism,” he says.

    After “church-hopping” for a few years, Rowe ended up at Pathways Wash Park, a multidenominational Christian church in Denver.

    After years of feeling disconnected in the Catholic Church where he says sermons rarely connected to his life, he has finally found the connection he has been looking for at Pathways.

    “I wanted spirituality. I wanted God. I wanted all those points to go back to what I’m dealing with today,” Rowe says.

    Fred Viarrial, 59, grew up as an altar boy at St. Leo’s in Denver. Six days a week he donned his cassock and worked the 6 a.m. Mass.

    “Books or bells. You are ringing the bells or moving the books for the priests,” Viarrial says.

    But as he grew up he began questioning elements of Catholicism. One day, when Viarrial was somewhere between age 10 and 12, he had something especially embarrassing to confess, so he trekked over to a Spanish language parish where he was unknown.

    “The priest pulled me out and spanked me on the spot,” Viarrial says with a laugh. “That got me to question this whole thing of confession.”

    When he was just 14 the precocious teenager went so far as to schedule an appointment with Denver ‘s then-Archbishop James Casey to discuss his doubts.

    “I took a two-page list of questions starting with the Hail Mary. I wanted to find them in the Bible, their origin … where is that in the Bible?”

    Viarrial says the archbishop humored him but ultimately did not answer his questions.

    He still believed in God, but was losing faith in the Church.

    Follow the CNN Belief Blog on Twitter

    By his 20s he was searching for a new church and ended up at Arvada Covenant Church, an evangelical congregation in a Denver suburb.

    At Arvada Covenant he says the focus is on a personal relationship with Jesus and that his questions about his faith and the Bible are not met with derision, but with a search for answers through Bible study.

    He has found a home at Arvada Covenant, but says he holds no grudge against the Catholic Church and still feels echoes of his Catholic upbringing in his faith today.

    “It’s like a spiritual tattoo that you receive as a kid," Viarrial says. "Those roots don’t ever disappear, you just better try to understand them.”
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    Offline Matthew

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    Ex-Catholics abound in the USA
    « Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 12:32:50 PM »
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  • So much ignorance; I must needs shake my head.

    Leaving Catholicism because it doesn't teach much about Christ, or have its adherents get to know Christ? That is EXTREMELY sad! A testament to the Crisis in the Church.

    As if the devotion of Sacred Heart of Jesus doesn't tell us everything we need to know about Christ and His love for us -- and the doctrine of the Real Presence, the Mass, the Priesthood, the Sacraments, etc.

    And the first half of the Hail Mary IS in the bible!

    And since when is "Sola Scriptura" a logical stance? Did Our Lord have the Apostles write the New Testament right away, or did that come later? Our Lord had them PREACH first. If anything, Tradition comes first, then Scripture.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Ex-Catholics abound in the USA
    « Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 02:25:31 PM »
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  • Recently, vatican II camden diocese, NJ (one of the biggest dioceses on east coast , including Jersey Shore,  spent over $20,000 to California survey company to learn that most of its Catholics believe that Jesus sinned while he was on earth.

    CNN is very liberal and anti-Catholic.  

    Many of the clergy and nuns don't their faith and that is why many of the people don't their faith.  Many of clergy live like hollywood movie stars or they are too busy raping and molesting inoccent children*** or sɛҳuąƖly harassing seminarians.. Obviously, many vatican II don't know the faith or there would be many protesting the rapes, sɛҳuąƖ abuse, embezzling, church closings, school closings etc.  It's as if they accept it..  terms of "obedience" and "forgiveness" are twisted to justify sins, corruption and apostacy.    

    *** pHiladelphia and camden dioceses...
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #3 on: June 19, 2012, 02:37:09 PM »
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  • Thanks, Mathew for sharing the CNN article is confirms that problems with Vatican II.  

    We need to get a hold of those people and try to let them know the truth and educate them about the true Catholic faith.  

    It is funny because a group of us was talking about an incident in Kansas where a "traditional" Catholic thought it was "ok" to organize a fundraiser for a congresswoman who is for abortion...  

    We need to love God, Our Blessed Mother and the true Catholic 24/7.  Once we leave Mass we should continue to be Catholics ineverything we do: work, play, politics etc.  It is not easy..

    Recently, I saw a video of these vatican II seminarians who were dancing to Lady Gaga.  It was sad.   Many clergy of vatican II are too worldly.  They worship money and power, luxury etc.

    Real Catholics including clergy should be  giving all love honor, obedience to God.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #4 on: June 19, 2012, 02:38:24 PM »
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  • Also, there are tons of novus ordo catholics who call themselves atheists and yet they don't even know the meaning of the term "atheist".
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #5 on: June 19, 2012, 02:45:25 PM »
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  • The vatican II church has done more to promote protestanism then Catholicism.  Most parishes churches, schools, were built pre vatican II.  In camden diocese, Nj they sold off church property or lease to protestants or government use like welfare programs and charter schools.   Recently, Altar Rosary society and Legion of Mary, Holy Name of being replaced by protestant sounding ministries which are based on social activities then spiritual..

      It is no wonder that many don't know their Catholic faith.  

    There is no respect for marriage,  families or roles of women..  

    These are just all excuses created by anti-Catholics within vatican II church.

    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 03:23:46 PM »
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  • Quote
    When he was just 14 the precocious teenager went so far as to schedule an appointment with Denver ‘s then-Archbishop James Casey to discuss his doubts.

    “I took a two-page list of questions starting with the Hail Mary. I wanted to find them in the Bible, their origin … where is that in the Bible?”

    Viarrial says the archbishop humored him but ultimately did not answer his questions.

    He still believed in God, but was losing faith in the Church.


    Some people look for any excuse they can find to do what they want. That's why this guy is associating the Church with mean old priests who spanked him for going to confession. I'm not saying it didn't happen, or that it was right, but that if this guy was really searching for the truth, why didn't he pick up a copy of the Catechism. He really needed a meeting with the Archbishop to have these questions answered? This guy is all about flare and that's how most people are who leave the Church.

    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    « Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 04:12:18 PM »
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  • This is an example in my Lifetime.
    I attended my 20th reunion of a Catholic High School Class of 1966 and
    was so shocked that a stripper was hired to perform at the reunion.
    There was a former teacher, and a Priest and the rest of the former
    classmates that thought it was funny. I walked out and never attended
    a reunion since. They invited me to the 40th in 2006.
    I doubt that any of those ex classmates go to Mass, nor practice any
    religion at all. The Priest teacher, since past on, was a victim of the
    spirit of Vatican 2.


    Offline catherineofsiena

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    « Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 04:22:04 PM »
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  • Ignorance is right.  I know more ex or fallen away Catholics than practicing ones.  These people know nothing about the religion they left.  If they spent half the time studying Catholicism rather than their new religious whim they'd still be Catholic, or at least informed.

    "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" is code for "I believe in God but I want to do what I want."  Drives me nuts.  That phrase is usually uttered with an air of superiority towards lesser beings who still attend church.
    For it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed. Matthew 26:31

    Offline s2srea

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    « Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 06:05:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: catherineofsiena
    Ignorance is right.  I know more ex or fallen away Catholics than practicing ones.  These people know nothing about the religion they left.  If they spent half the time studying Catholicism rather than their new religious whim they'd still be Catholic, or at least informed.


    I think you're on to something with the former. They'd probably be Catholic still Catherine. But they allow themselves to seek other religions because they probably don't like what the Catholic Church offers. Even the NO has more truth to it than Protestant Churches. People want to find a way out. If they learned more about the Truth, they would need to change their ways, and Modern man doesn't let that happen to himself; he's "free".

    Quote


    "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" is code for "I believe in God but I want to do what I want."  Drives me nuts.  That phrase is usually uttered with an air of superiority towards lesser beings who still attend church.

    Bingo!

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 06:23:31 PM »
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  • Roman Catholic 1953,  that is so sad.  This is some of the things we should be advising Bishop Fellay so he can relay it back to Rome.

    It reminded me of the time that my husband and I went to a fundraiser for a woman who was novus ordo catholic and she had rare disease.  Many Catholics from the area were present, including the local pastor.  There were comedians there and they knew a priest was present and yet they continued  to cuss, sɛҳuąƖ references, etc.  My husband and I were embarrassed.  Everybody thought it was funny.  The sad part was many protestants were there too and they made mean comments about how catholic church.  We left.

    Then a couple of months later I get invitation to attend Ancient Order of hibernians Hall where Mass is "celebrated" and now they were hosting crude comedians and many are my own  family.  (I am former LAOH).  

    By the way, many of us have written to rome and Rome fails to take action to correct the problems.  2015 for philadelphia Papal visit is pretty lame.  Many of us former novus ordo parishioners feel that Rome has turned its back on God.
    If we write to Bishop fellay, will he relay this to Rome?  Rome fails to listen to its own holy priests.  It seems to many of us that Rome caters to the unholyones.  

    There a lot of good people who are novus ordo who are very upset by this sin against God and who even made family consecrations to Sacred Heart too.  

    The only thing we can do is pray to God and hope things work out.
     
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 06:38:16 PM »
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  • When we were novus ordo they limited Mass at our small church which seated about 300 and was built by many who were peresecuted including my husband's family.

    Most of the novus ordo Masses were being held at our new "parish center".   Many of us supported the new parish center for Catholic activities.  Instead, novus ordo hold more secular events and fundraisers there then "catholic" activities.  Anyway,in the past, we attended at the "catholic" parish center to to benefit parks and recreation.  Well, anyway there was dancing , drinking of alcohol and secular music.  We're not prudes..my husband and I.  It was weird and creepy to have that kind of party and next day "celebate" Mass.  Recently, it was even used for a farmers dinner sponsored by a local company.  We didn't go.  And most of these farmers in our area are protestants relatives of the ones who persecuted my husband's family.  The anti-Catholics are within the novus ordo.



    My husband and I are so happy that we left novus ordo for traditional catholicism because it is not Catholic.   Traditional Catholics aren't perfect either but at least they are Catholic.  Some of them just need to live their faith.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline catherineofsiena

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    « Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 07:28:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: s2srea

     People want to find a way out. If they learned more about the Truth, they would need to change their ways, and Modern man doesn't let that happen to himself; he's "free".



    I've said that about atheists.  It's easier not to believe because a belief in God requires action and obligations.
    For it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be dispersed. Matthew 26:31

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 09:00:05 PM »
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  • I posted this link in another thread a while back, but it got burried. This is important so I'm going to post it again on this thread (I'd copy and paste it but it won't let me for some reason).

    http://canisiusbooks.com/articles/feminism_russian-weapon-against-family.htm

    The article contains a quote from Pope Pius XI that is particularly important:

    Quote
    Communism is particularly characterized by the rejection of any link that binds the woman to the family and the home, and her emancipation is proclaimed as a basic principle.- Pope Pius XI


    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 09:06:47 PM »
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  • Sorry, I posted the above in the wrong thread. Please delete it when you get a chance, Matthew.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.