Author Topic: Everyones thoughts on 401K (Read 5493 times)

PartyIsOver221 · « **on:** June 13, 2011, 04:20:39 AM »

I can't find much real Catholic thought on the subject, but 401k seems "bad" to me by my personal inspiration.

Please tell me what you think about it, in relation to current politics, trends, economics, NWO, etc etc.

Thanks

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #1 on:** June 13, 2011, 10:50:40 AM »

There's no reason it is inherently bad anymore than pensions were/are.

Pensions, which hardly exist anymore, but at one time were prevalent, paid the contributions towards an employee's retirement and those contributions were invested. Bonds stocks, even private equity if the pension manager was sophisticated.

Now with a 401k, you make the contributions and you more or less manage the investments insofar as you choose mutual funds.

I'm not sure what your objections would be except
A-you might find the concept or 'retiring' objectionable, that people should work. If so merely treat your 401k as savings for when you can no longer physically work and these funds can be used by your family to care for you.

B-you might find the investment selections unCatholic. If so, it's doubtful you have many choices in you 401k, and pretty much any mutual fund could end up with your dollars ending up in something unrighteous, but also keep in mind working Catholics in the blue collar fields for decades, retired off their pensions from factories, mines, etc and they had no idea where that money was invested. It probably never occurred to them. Essentially I don't see this particular form of retirement savings as inherently unCatholic.

C-you might feel that the end is nigh and you'll never see a penny of the money or it's pointless to save or something like that. Not sure. It doesn't mean you're not faithful or don't 'truly' believe if you save for a rainy day or your elderly dotage someday. Since the Church hasn't made pronouncements on a specific date or decade, you're not 'doubting' some dogma by saving in a 401k

D-also keep in mind a 401k is a tax deduction, which means less tax than saving your money in a potentially usurous bank or under your mattress. This is important if you want to minimize the funds sent to the gov't to engage in unrighteous wars, to engage in unChristian foreign policy like the oppression of Palestinian Christians or radical Wahabbist Saudis, or just to fund abortions in other countries.

What exactly bothers you from what you've read?

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 13, 2011, 03:35:18 PM »

Thank you for your commentary, Iuvenalis. I really have not read anything on the subject from a Catholic , or even conspiracy theorist standpoint (if there even is one). Just my opinion on stocks and other lucrative investing methods makes me wary of the "safer alternative" of 401K , as many people would like to make out.

If one has debt to pay off, isn't it more "moral" to pay back the debt instead of hunker it away leaving the debt to rise more than it could have if paid off quicker? That's the predicament I'm in.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2011, 03:39:54 PM »

My 2c. I'd only put money in a retirement account before being debt free if it was employer-matched.

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2011, 03:49:21 PM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

My 2c. I'd only put money in a retirement account before being debt free if it was employer-matched.

Understood.. I am employer matched, not alot but still is.

Thanks for the advice... just a young buck here looking to see what is best in this situation.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2011, 04:46:53 PM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

Quote from: MaterDominici
My 2c. I'd only put money in a retirement account before being debt free if it was employer-matched.

Understood.. I am employer matched, not alot but still is.

Thanks for the advice... just a young buck here looking to see what is best in this situation.

1. Know how long it takes before you're "fully vested" and make sure you'll be working there that long

2. Don't contribute in leiu of paying CC debt; if you have CC debt, pay it first

3. Contribute up to the employer match

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #6 on:** June 14, 2011, 01:24:11 AM »

Mater's advice would more or less be the same as mine.

What sort of 'debt'. Not all debt is the same. Credit cards are usurous and you should get rid of such debt right away. A fairly average stock market return would be about 7% historically. Credit card rates are often 17-23% or more. That's a 10 to 16% *loss* per dollar put in a 401k vs paying off a high interest debt.

That being said, if your debt is student loans unless the balances are oppressively large, their rates are usually quite low, car loan rates can be reasonable and build credit history (as do student loans) so there usually isn't a reason to pay such debts too aggressively.

In a nutshell, what kind of debt? Credit cards are the devil and yes you should pay them off before a penny goes into a 401k, even with a company match.

If all your debt is low interest, yes, contribute to a 401k, but I would contribute beyond the match level. Contributing to the match only has become fashionable advice and is bad advice. If you have no other deductions (no dependents or house) a 401k should be maximized if you can afford to do so, match or no match (and again, in the absence of high interest debt)

Hope this helps

MaterDominici · « **Reply #7 on:** June 14, 2011, 01:33:23 AM »

Past the employer match, I'd need more info. I'm not saying not to do more, but the decision after the match is met is different than the decision up to that point.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2011, 10:11:33 AM »

If you save your money in a regular bank account, such as a CD... the bank will invest that money as they see fit, earn anywhere between 3-25% return on it, and pay you less than 1 percent return. They keep all the interest for themselves. A high level of credit card debt, and using banks for savings accounts is exactly what has led to the poverty gap. The bankers get rich while the little guy actually loses the value of their savings, since their interest earnings are less than inflation. If more people invested in mutual funds, either directly or through a 401k, the gap would start to close. There's no reason the little man can't help lift up the great companies of the world and himself in the process of investing. Saving through investing used to work out well, as mentioned through pension funds, until banks figured out ways to trick people into low-interest investing.

I highly recommend you invest your 401k in mutual funds, as they have very smart individuals moving the money around for you, where they believe it will grow best. I like American Funds the best, as it's had the best growth over time, Fidelity is a good one too. There are others, take a look at their numbers and how they decide what to invest in. Like I said, I like American Funds because they have a 10 year mentorship program for their researchers and investors. Basically, they never have guys fresh out of college deciding how to invest your dollars. Remember that the value of your account will go up and down over time, but overall the average is always growth. As long as you hang in there and don't liquidate accounts while the market is down, you'll be fine.

If you have more questions about it let me know, I've been going to school to be a financial advisor, I'll be done with my licensing in about a month. I'm by no means an expert but I know a thing or two.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2011, 11:24:11 AM »

IMO, 401K is a racket and most of the money in them has been or will soon be stolen, in one manner or another.

At this late stage of the game, take the cash and buy physical silver or other tangible, useful assets.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2011, 11:31:58 AM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

D-also keep in mind a 401k is a tax deduction, which means less tax than saving your money in a potentially usurous bank or under your mattress.

IMO, the income tax is bogus -- i.e., there isn't even a law that says you have to file a 1040 or pay tax on your wages.

As for paying less tax in this way or that, inflation is the supreme tax; the worst aspect of it is that it is hidden, if you will.

The only way I have seen to protect your wealth against inflation is to put it into a form that is stable: precious metals.

Hey Flufferoo :)

LaramieHirsch · « **Reply #11 on:** June 19, 2011, 02:45:25 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

IMO, 401K is a racket and most of the money in them has been or will soon be stolen, in one manner or another.

At this late stage of the game, take the cash and buy physical silver or other tangible, useful assets.

I agree with this advice.

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2011, 04:01:04 PM »

Advice is noted. Thank you all.

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #13 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:01:11 AM »

Quote from: LaramieHirsch

Quote from: gladius_veritatis
IMO, 401K is a racket and most of the money in them has been or will soon be stolen, in one manner or another.

At this late stage of the game, take the cash and buy physical silver or other tangible, useful assets.

I agree with this advice.

Silver (or gold), while certainly tangible, is not 'useful.' You can't eat it or live in it. It's just a metal. It has no inherent value except people agree it has value. In this way it is no different than printed money. It is just heavier.

Pensions have certainly been raided (stolen), but 401k's are hardly being robbed. What are you referring to?

MaterDominici · « **Reply #14 on:** June 21, 2011, 01:46:52 AM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

Silver (or gold), while certainly tangible, is not 'useful.' You can't eat it or live in it. It's just a metal. It has no inherent value except people agree it has value. In this way it is no different than printed money. It is just heavier.

I agree GV's phrasing wasn't the best, but I don't know any printed currencies that are universally accepted as valuable the way PMs are.