Author Topic: Everyones thoughts on 401K (Read 5500 times)

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #15 on:** June 21, 2011, 11:14:07 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

Quote from: Iuvenalis
Silver (or gold), while certainly tangible, is not 'useful.' You can't eat it or live in it. It's just a metal. It has no inherent value except people agree it has value. In this way it is no different than printed money. It is just heavier.

I agree GV's phrasing wasn't the best, but I don't know any printed currencies that are universally accepted as valuable the way PMs are.

I don't know of any precious metals that can be eaten, used as tools, shelter or weapons, or that provide warmth

Currency doesn't really need inherent value, it is only a temporary and portable medium of exchange. A gov't need not 'back' a currency as such, since I don't intend to exchange it for some (also inherently worthless) metal. I only need a portable exchange.

Say I have aspirin, you have eggs, I don't need eggs but you need aspirin. There's a 3rd guy that has firewood which I do need. You would have to go find him and that would only work if he needs your eggs, otherwise you need to get us all 3 together to perform the exchange at once. Huge hit to productive capacity in the economy all this resource shuffling and logistics, hence currency.

I only need the money long enough for my next exchange (whatever that is). It's not a 'store' of value and isn't intended as such. Even when I invest, stocks, bonds, whatever, that's not dollars-- it's *denominated* in dollars. Huge difference.

Take ADRs for example. Stocks of foreign companies that trade on our exchanges just so they're easier to buy for people with dollars. Those shares aren't suddenly storehouses of dollars, they're just *denominated* in dollars on our exchange.

Money is a medium of exchange. So-called 'hard money'-ers and goldbugs miss the premise completely.

Precious metals are just commodities (commodities in a bubble at that!)

I don't need a universally acceptable form of printed currency unless I'm trading with foreign economies. Domestically is all I trade with directly.

Anyway, the dollar, love it or hate it, is darned near this universally accepted currency anyway.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #16 on:** June 21, 2011, 11:29:23 AM »

So long as women like gold it will have the effect of giving gold enormous value.

Appeasing vanity remains a high priority even in apocalyptic scenarios.

And because it is universally prized, it does serve as a medium of exchange.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #17 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:43:48 PM »

Quote from: Iuvenalis

I don't know of any precious metals that can be eaten, used as tools, shelter or weapons, or that provide warmth.

Well, when anyone says that is the case, your point might be germane.

Quote

Currency doesn't really need inherent value, it is only a temporary and portable medium of exchange. A gov't need not 'back' a currency as such...

Agreed. The important matter is who issues it and controls its quantity. Talley sticks (sp?) are a great example.

Quote

Money is a medium of exchange. So-called 'hard money'-ers and goldbugs miss the premise completely.

Agreed. I am not a hard money-er, FWIW.

Still, there seems little doubt that PMs will hold some sort of value through even the nastiest storm. Thus, it makes sense to have some, provided all other needs (food, shelter, defense, etc) have been addressed FIRST.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2011, 12:46:25 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

So long as women like gold it will have the effect of giving gold enormous value.

God seems to like it, too.

PMs will always have some appeal -- even in heaven, from what I can tell.

LordPhan · « **Reply #19 on:** June 22, 2011, 04:07:50 AM »

Commodities like Gold or Silver hold value based on their rarity.

The Rarer an item that holds demand the higher it's value.

Interesting that you say that Silver has no use since you're using a computer which needs small amounts of silver to run

Silver and Gold are great for making tools, it would be rediculous to use Gold for Tools since the amount of Gold that has been mined in the world can fit in a large warehouse.

Platinum is another commodity with alot of value, it also has many uses. It is one of the best heat sinks known. If your computer case or your engine hood were made of platinum you wouldn't need a fan. Of course due to demand and low supply the price would be astronomical.

Most things that are 'gold' are only partly gold.

24 carat is pure, anything less is an alloy containing gold. 10 carat is about 46% I think?

Stubborn · « **Reply #20 on:** June 23, 2011, 07:30:57 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

My 2c. I'd only put money in a retirement account before being debt free if it was employer-matched.

Good advice IMO.

IMO, the vast majority of people have zero clue about what actually happens with the money they put into 401Ks.

Here is what happened to many of us, starting about 1999.

Layoffs were occurring by the bucket full - to the tune of about 60,000 per week according to the news reports (these days there's approx. 4 times that many according to the news reports). Many were laid off or otherwise unemployed and could not find a job even after some two years - MANY folks were forced into retirement and were depending on their 401K - the market crash did not occur on "911", it occurred well prior to that and many folks were finding their retirement funds mostly gone.

I was laid off as well and saw my 401K and other investments (I also invested in managed mutual funds) shrink to 25% of what it was at it's peak. Well, I needed money so I closed out my 401K and paid like a 20% penalty IIRC and was taxed up the wazoo............I swore I'd never contribute to another 401K ever again.

IMO, unless you are going to monitor your account often *and* know what you are doing, do like MaterDominici suggested.

MaterDominici · « **Reply #21 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:22:08 AM »

For the record, the early withdrawal penalty is 10%. There are a scant few ways in which you can withdraw penalty-free, but generally, getting that money before you're retired will cost you 10% plus the income tax you didn't pay when you deposited the funds.

Many retirement accounts (could be all?) will, however, let you borrow from yourself. I don't know the details on that.

momofmany · « **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2011, 11:40:27 AM »

Quote from: MaterDominici

For the record, the early withdrawal penalty is 10%. There are a scant few ways in which you can withdraw penalty-free, but generally, getting that money before you're retired will cost you 10% plus the income tax you didn't pay when you deposited the funds.

Many retirement accounts (could be all?) will, however, let you borrow from yourself. I don't know the details on that.

We've had a 401k for almost 17 years. Only in the last couple years were we able to access the money at all. If I recall correctly we are allowed to access it for three reasons and only three times total. Prior to the new provisions we would get the money only if dh left the company, died, retired or we cashed out and paid the tax and penalties. If we take money out of the 401K (to buy a house, for college expenses or for a general loan) it has to be paid back with interest.

Iuvenalis · « **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2011, 05:37:22 PM »

When you borrow from yourself, you do have to pay interest, but the interest is paid to yourself also. That ans the rate is usually low, 2-3%. Great rate, and you pay it to yourself anyway.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #24 on:** June 23, 2011, 08:53:19 PM »

If your company is matching a certain percent of your contributions, I would recommend investing just enough to get those employer matched contributions. You will also want to pay attention to vestment clauses. Since employment is very transitory in our present economy, most employers have either very short vestment clauses, or none at all.

Consider this, if your company matches up to 3% of your income dollar for dollar, that's an immediate 50% growth on your investment. So if you've already doubled your money... who cares if you have to pay a 10% penalty on withdrawal? I once had to do this when I was unemployed, and I pulled out way more than I put in, and my company was only making a 50% match. Just make sure that you hang on to some of that cash so it will be there when you file your next tax return.

Honestly, I think your best bet is to hire a real financial advisor who knows stuff about investing and money. They can tell you how much you can reasonably save, what you should shoot for saving every month in order to retire when you want to, and how to cover all your bases. They can also tell you how to distribute your investments to maximize your growth while staying within your personal comfort zone. A good one can be hard to find, as many are captive to specific mutual fund companies and only concerned about selling you their own products. If you like, you can send me a PM and I'll give you some tips on finding a good advisor in your specific locale.

No offense to anyone here, but the last thing you want to do is attempt to get financial advice from an internet forum that has nothing to do with finances. I mean we're talking about how you support yourself, your family, and your life. Get your advice from a professional who studies this stuff, knows the market, and knows how people get themselves into financial trouble.

the smart sheep · « **Reply #25 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:32:33 PM »

When I was growing up

the main rule in the game Monopoly was ; DO NOT LET KATHY BE THE BANKER. She never ran out of money and her side of the board was always thicker than it should have been.

My 2 cents is to keep your money under the mattress!!!

The KATHYS(BANKERS) of the world are thieves. They will never tell you the truth about your money because they know is fiat (Fiat money is money that has value only because of government regulation or law). It has no gold or silver value to it so they will do anything they want with it, especially in a NWO coming soon to a neighborhood near you.

A wealth of information on this at freedom-school.com

the smart sheep

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #26 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:50:39 PM »

Quote from: Miss_Fluffy

No offense to anyone here, but the last thing you want to do is attempt to get financial advice from an internet forum that has nothing to do with finances.

No offense, but those who MAKE MONEY from your decisions tend to let potential profit affect what they advise.

How many "pros" saw things coming in 2008, or even well before? Not too many. I sure as hell did, as it it all mathematical and I understand the intrinsically-evil nature of our 'money' and our completely fraudulent system.

The pros have reason to be BIASED in what they say -- men like me do not. Still, that does not mean that all amateurs know their asses from a whole in the ground, or that there are NO pros who know WTF is going on (although it is crystal clear the vast majority do not know enough to be of more use than a decoder ring from a box of Fruit Loops).

the smart sheep · « **Reply #27 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:54:44 PM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

Thank you for your commentary, Iuvenalis. I really have not read anything on the subject from a Catholic , or even conspiracy theorist standpoint (if there even is one). Just my opinion on stocks and other lucrative investing methods makes me wary of the "safer alternative" of 401K , as many people would like to make out.

If one has debt to pay off, isn't it more "moral" to pay back the debt instead of hunker it away leaving the debt to rise more than it could have if paid off quicker? That's the predicament I'm in.

Yes, it is moral to pay back debt.

But if you are talking about the US trillion dollar debt,the problem here is that most people do not know who they are in the banking world. And the Bankers (Zionist) play word art with people to trick them into paying for a debt they are not responsible for. KATHY did that too.

It is moral to pay it back if you have told them you are a US citizen (which you do when you send in a 1040, W2, W4).

However, if you are a transient foreigner or a Union state Citizen (see amended W8BEN IRS form) you do not have to pay back the debt. You do not owe it.
You do not have to pay taxes. See the website for Soverviergn Education Defense Minisrty (SEDM)

All US citizens are financially supporting Zionism (Satan). The moral thing to do is to educate yourself in this matter, pray about it and then do the "moral" thing.

the smart sheep

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #28 on:** June 24, 2011, 04:59:39 PM »

Quote from: Miss_Fluffy

Get your advice from a professional who studies this stuff, knows the market, and knows how people get themselves into financial trouble.

I have friends from Notre Dame who have made millions while playing their parts in the game, but they have absolutely NO CLUE how a USD comes into existence. Unless you understand that, your understanding is like thinking you know everything about a man, all the while knowing only a bit about a his hair color.

Do you, Flufferoo? If not, dig deeper, my dear.

You know I love you and always have (and always will), but the amount of fraud woven into this system is mind-boggling -- yet the many good-willed men required to make it all happen do not even grasp the basics.

the smart sheep · « **Reply #29 on:** June 24, 2011, 05:18:09 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Quote from: Miss_Fluffy
No offense to anyone here, but the last thing you want to do is attempt to get financial advice from an internet forum that has nothing to do with finances.

I disagree with Miss Fluffy.

This forum is the perfect place to discuss finances. Like I said in my previous post, most Americans are paying the very people(Satan's army) who are destroying us.
Essentially we are putting the means in Satan's hands to cause havoc all over the world.

The IRS (Zionist) that we are giving 30% of our paycheck to are the same people bullying Bishop Fellay ( as far as I can understand right now, I am not finished reading about the Karhgate issue).

These people (Zionist) don't play around. And if you don't play their banking game they will attack you. Example -Lybia doesn't want to sign up with these bankers (Zionist) so they are being ruthlessly attacked.

The one thing they are afraid of is us finding out.
Isn't it immoral to financially support Satan? Wouldn't you want to know if you are doing something immoral?

the smart sheep