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Author Topic: Ethical to own a Restaurant?  (Read 2373 times)

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Offline SimpleMan

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Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
« Reply #45 on: January 27, 2020, 08:32:02 AM »
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  • This is actually rather simple; the movie theater shouldn't be open on Sunday, and thus there would not be any conflict.  As mentioned in the OP, the hypothetical I provided was in response to thinking about Chick-fil-A, a Protestant-owned restaurant that chooses not to be open on Sunday our of respect of the Third Commandment.  If a  national-chain Protestant family restaurant can be closed on a Sunday, so can a movie theater.
    I thought the same thing, but I had to have something to use as an example, and I was trying to keep the example as simple as possible. 


    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #46 on: January 27, 2020, 08:32:35 AM »
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  • What are you missing?  Nothing from what I can see.  If anything, you are hitting on precisely what I was trying to get my mind around when dealing with the complexities of operating certain businesses in this modern era.  My initial question was on the ethics, in view of tradition, of operating a restaurant that served primarily meat.  For those that piped in about providing non-meat alternatives on certain days miss the overall point of the post. From a traditional viewpoint, the restaurant owner should strive not to serve meat on any Friday, and Ash Wednesday.  However, unless said restaurant was located in some enclave of practicing traditional Catholics, I do not see this being a viable business option.  (And again, for those who think the solution is as easy as simply providing non-meat alternatives on those days simply do not understand BBQ--another reason why I selected that type of restaurant in the hypothetical).  

    Under the present rules, though, and regardless if one believes them to be in effect or not, meat is only forbidden on Friday's during Lent and Ash Wednesday.  Under that paradigm, I could see the potential of simply not opening the restaurant on those days and still remain economically viable.  And in view of the fasting requirements of Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, the restaurant would certainly have to be closed on those days.    

    From a larger perspective, and revisiting your theme of things as they should be, it is sad that as a "Christian" nation, the U.S. has, generally speaking, shifted so far from its apparent roots.  More and more, Sunday "blue laws" are stricken, and Sunday becoming like any other business day is the norm.  While I'm sure there are more, Chick-fil-A is one of the only national-chain restaurants that at least chooses to not open on that day.  Moreover, as Catholics, I am unaware of any type of the enclave I was mentioning above.  And while there very well may exist such an enclave, they are few and far between.  Compare/contrast that to the many enclaves that presently exist in just above every major U.S. city today, especially, for example, Jєωιѕн and Islamic people who purposefully take over neighborhoods and instill their own "local rules".  Most of this is done out of their own volition, and yet just look at all the interesting responses here about whether a restaurant should be serving meat on Fridays.
    To be clear, my thoughts were conceptual, though I acknowledge the point that other baptized Christians are also probably bound by the abstinence law technically.

    I wasn't saying they "should."  I think what you describe is ideal.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #47 on: January 27, 2020, 08:42:59 AM »
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  • I thought the same way at first, but this simply cannot be the case, what this thinking is, is the liberalism we've all been saturated in. OTOH, if this were the case, then whenever the same principle is applied to anything else, then non-Catholics get the same free pass, which has ultimately been translated to mean non-Catholics do not sin, only Catholics sin - as you just did.

    I have never seen anything from the Church saying Canon Law applies only to Catholics, or that non-Catholics are dispensed from following the laws of the Church. Can you provide a quote?  
     
    It doesn't mean non-Catholics cannot sin. They can sin against natural and divine law. Canon law is for Catholics.
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3.HTM

    Quote
    Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #48 on: January 27, 2020, 08:47:01 AM »
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  • I do not believe the above to be entirely true.  I believe it would be more accurate to say that an un-baptized, non-Catholic unaware of the Church who eats meat on Good Friday does not sin.  All baptized apostates and heretics are still subject to the one, true Church, and by eating meat on Friday, are arguably engaging in sinful behavior, in addition to the very sinful behavior appurtenant to being an apostate/heretic.  In other words, for example, Lutherans aren't off the hook for eating meat on Good Friday simply because they refuse recognition of Christ's one, true Church.

    In view of the following, unless you're living in, for example, an Islamic country or the like, I think it is a canard to say that one simply does not know the "religion" of the customers, and as such, the BBQ restaurant owner can not be at fault for serving meat on a Friday during Lent.  Add to that, if said restaurant was located in a small town where the owner knows most of the patrons (and just about any small town in American is essentially "Christian" in nature), it would be a near impossibility that the restaurant owner was unaware of his/her patrons' religious affiliation.  In short, by simply providing meat products on any Friday during Lent (and especially Good Friday), even if the restaurant owner didn't eat them, s/he is still contributing to the sinful behavior of others.
    Hm, that is a fair point. I didn't realise it may apply to heretical Christians too.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #49 on: January 27, 2020, 10:58:12 AM »
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  • Quote
    It doesn't mean non-Catholics cannot sin. They can sin against natural and divine law. Canon law is for Catholics.
    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3.HTM

    Ahh, the above is the new canon law, much different than the old canon law:

    Quote
    12. Unbaptized persons are not held to laws which are purely Church laws, nor baptized persons who have not a sufficient use of their mind, nor children under seven years of age though they may have sufficient knowledge and judgment, unless the law does in some instances declare the latter to be held to its observance. (Canon 12.)...

    13. The general laws of the Church bind all persons for whom they are issued anywhere in the world...

    16. No ignorance of invalidating or inhabilitating laws excuses unless the law explicitly admits ignorance as an excuse. Likewise ignorance or error is not presumed when it concerns the law or its penalty, or ones own action, or the notorious action of another; concerning the non-notorious action of another, ignorance is presumed until the contrary is proved...


    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline poche

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #50 on: January 28, 2020, 05:01:26 AM »
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  • You could serve red snapper on Fridays.
    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
    :cowboy: :cowboy: :cowboy:

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #51 on: January 28, 2020, 10:06:47 AM »
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  • This is what I would have suggested...  Open your restaurant, serve what you want Monday through Thursday, and on Saturdays.  Do a fish fry, or anything other than meat on Fridays, and close down on Sundays.    

    And the likely outcome...

    Upon taking the advice of others who have never run a restaurant, Catholic entrepreneur invests life savings into BBQ restaurant in a historically Catholic area that adopts the above model.  Food is fantastic.  However....

    --N.O. Catholics show up on Fridays outside of Lent, and are shocked that there isn't any meat on the menu; is accused of being antiquated and prejudiced against the local Protestants ("the Church doesn't teach that anymore..."); local priest and bishop agree; is labelled a "traditionalist" and "rigid"; Susan from the Parish Council organizes a boycott, which is successful. 

    --Catholics from the nearby "traditional community" refuse to patronize the establishment; Comments such as "It's overpriced and we can't afford it," and "We can make the same food at home for less" are overheard; Of the two women employed at the restaurant, one has short hair and the other doesn't wear a skirt that covers her ankles--each considered to be scandalous and thus the restaurant must be avoided; restaurant owner is accused of not being a true TradTM.

    --Restaurant owner eventually files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy; loses everything.  

    --Restaurant building is bought and repurposed as a halal restaurant serving the local Somali population brought into the area by the USCCB and paid for by Federal tax dollars; business thrives.

    :laugh2:

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #52 on: January 28, 2020, 10:21:05 AM »
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  • And the likely outcome...

    Upon taking the advice of others who have never run a restaurant, Catholic entrepreneur invests life savings into BBQ restaurant in a historically Catholic area that adopts the above model.  Food is fantastic.  However....

    --N.O. Catholics show up on Fridays outside of Lent, and are shocked that there isn't any meat on the menu; is accused of being antiquated and prejudiced against the local Protestants ("the Church doesn't teach that anymore..."); local priest and bishop agree; is labelled a "traditionalist" and "rigid"; Susan from the Parish Council organizes a boycott, which is successful.  

    --Catholics from the nearby "traditional community" refuse to patronize the establishment; Comments such as "It's overpriced and we can't afford it," and "We can make the same food at home for less" are overheard; Of the two women employed at the restaurant, one has short hair and the other doesn't wear a skirt that covers her ankles--each considered to be scandalous and thus the restaurant must be avoided; restaurant owner is accused of not being a true TradTM.

    --Restaurant owner eventually files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy; loses everything.  

    --Restaurant building is bought and repurposed as a halal restaurant serving the local Somali population brought into the area by the USCCB and paid for by Federal tax dollars; business thrives.

    :laugh2:
    You know, that's just about the way things would turn out.  Seriously.

    And I'm here to tell you, I guess I could live with a little ankle showing, if I had to --- I could always avert my eyes --- but the short hair, the short hair, that would be a deal-killer right there, I wouldn't go anywhere near the place!  What is this world coming to?

    :jester:


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #53 on: January 28, 2020, 10:32:17 AM »
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  • Ahh, the above is the new canon law, much different than the old canon law:
    Not eating meat on Fridays was issued for Catholics. 

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #54 on: January 28, 2020, 11:13:50 AM »
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  • A good Catholic would just embrace your outcome with a "Blessed be God"...

    So I'm not a "good Catholic?"

    Does that mean I'm also not TradTM?

    :confused:

    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #55 on: January 28, 2020, 01:33:08 PM »
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  • Did I say you weren't a good Catholic?

    Did I say you weren't TradTM?

    Whew.... had me worried there for a moment.

    :cowboy:


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #56 on: January 28, 2020, 05:48:30 PM »
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  • Canon law only applies to Catholics. A non-Catholic who eats meat on Good Friday does not sin, and therefore a Catholic who serves him meat is not participating in sin.

    That's not entirely true.  All those baptized Catholics (regardless of what they are now) are bound by Church Law, and to some extent that means all the baptized.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #57 on: January 28, 2020, 05:58:03 PM »
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  • That's not entirely true.  All those baptized Catholics (regardless of what they are now) are bound by Church Law, and to some extent that means all the baptized.
    I was gonna ask, does someone who was raised Southern Baptist and has been Southern Baptist his whole life fall under Church Law?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #58 on: January 29, 2020, 05:01:57 AM »
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  • Not eating meat on Fridays was issued for Catholics.
    You are correct with this, I was wrong in thinking that even prots were bound to the law.

    Published in 1918, from: A Commentary and Summary of the New Code of Canon Law:

    "1. It is stated in the first Canon of the Code that its laws are obligatory only for Catholics of the Latin Rite, except in those points which of their very nature affect also the Oriental Church. This ruling is not new, it has obtained for many centuries...."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Ethical to own a Restaurant?
    « Reply #59 on: January 29, 2020, 08:44:33 AM »
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  • A good Catholic would just embrace your outcome with a "Blessed be God"...
    And a good Catholic would also exercise wise stewardship over the resources that are going to be needed to support his family.  Part of this would be realistically assessing his business prospects, and thinking through all of the likely scenarios.