Author Topic: Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?  (Read 2937 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
« on: March 22, 2013, 04:39:48 PM »
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  • Many courts have ruled that the ring is a "conditional gift" that must be returned to the person who bought it.

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney)

    While breaking off an engagement may help a couple dodge a messy divorce, it doesn't always keep them out of the courtroom.
    More than $5,000 is spent on the average engagement ring. And deciding who gets to keep the ring when the big day gets called off is such a hotly-contested issue that most states have laws governing its ownership.
    Some bitter lovers even take the case to court.
    Colette DiPierro, 31, thought her broken engagement was behind her when she learned that her ex-fiancé Christopher Reinhold was suing, demanding the return of her $17,500 diamond engagement ring.
    They had dated for almost two years when Reinhold proposed in May 2009. But the couple began to fight, often about money, and they split four months later, said DiPierro, a physician assistant in Staten Island, N.Y. The following spring, he filed a lawsuit. Reinhold and his attorney did not respond to requests for comment.
    Poll: Who do you think should keep the ring?
    According to DiPierro, she held onto the ring because he hadn't repaid her for his share of $40,000 worth of living expenses. Their deal: she had paid for rent, food, car payments and other bills while Reinhold saved for the ring.
    "I helped him save so I felt that I was holding onto the ring for collateral," she said.
    Laws vary by state, but many consider the ring a "conditional gift" until the couple says "I do," -- meaning that regardless of who gets cold feet, the ring must be returned to the person who bought it, said Alton Abramowitz, a New York-based attorney and president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers.
    But it's not always that simple.

    A New York judge ruled in 2006 that a woman could keep her 3.4-carat diamond engagement ring because her ex had not yet been divorced from his previous wife when he proposed. The Montana Supreme Court, meanwhile, has shot down the conditional gift theory entirely, ruling that the ring is the rightful property of its recipient.
    In certain states, determining who gets the ring rests on who called off the wedding. And, to complicate matters further, some states treat an engagement ring given on a holiday differently than one given on a non-holiday.
    In DiPierro's case, because the ring was given to her on her birthday, she argued that it should be hers to keep.
    Related: How to ask a friend to pay you back
    New York State law was on her side, said George Muscato, a Lockport, N.Y.-based attorney who recently represented a female client in an engagement ring-related suit. He did not represent DiPierro.
    "If you give her that ring on a holiday like Christmas or Valentine's Day or her birthday, then you are making a gift to her as a present [that is] unconditional," he said.
    But as legal proceedings dragged on for more than a year, DiPierro said she ultimately agreed to a financial settlement with Reinhold.
    While she's glad her time in court is behind her, DiPierro said it drastically changed her perspective on money and romantic relationships.
    "I guess, in some cases, I was naive," she said. "Money became very complicated in every future relationship."  

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    Offline Matthew

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #1 on: March 22, 2013, 04:39:56 PM »
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  • Go Hawkeyes • 10 hours ago
    Are people really spending that much on a ring? That's just plain ridiculous. My wife's ring was $500. Mine was $200. And it's not like we're poor. We earn over $100k each. There's just no point in spending $5k on a ring. People are way to materialistic and diamond sellers are laughing all the way to the bank.
    464  4 •Reply•Share ›

    jpass101  Go Hawkeyes • 9 hours ago
    The Diamond Ring Industry spends billions a year convincing people that love can only be measured by the size of a diamond ..... and here you go wanting to undo all that work.
    306  1 •Reply•Share ›

    DeltaFunk0  jpass101 • 8 hours ago
    Hallmark and all those companies puffed up Valentines day into something that woman are justified in being dissatisfied with. $120 roses, $120 on dinner, and a gift on top of that is completely unreasonable. Marketing simply seems to work better on women.

    My girlfriend is getting flowers that look nice, doesn't matter the price tag. And she expects me to simply cook AND wash the pots afterwards for dinner. That's all that's needed. I'll get a 12-pack of some German beer or something in return. Boom.
    137  2 •Reply•Share ›

    phearis  DeltaFunk0 • 6 hours ago
    I bought mine and my ex's rings off eBay. Then she cheated on me and I called it off and kicked her out. She was livid when she tried to pawn the ring and found out it was only worth about $50. hahahaha
    84  •Reply•Share ›

    Avatar  phearis • 5 hours ago
    impressive!!! anyway, she cheated on you and kept the ring, so bad of her
    4  •Reply•Share ›

    Julianna Andy  Avatar • 2 hours ago
    til I saw the draft four $6432, I accept that...my... brothers friend was realey erning money in their spare time from there computar.. there moms best friend had bean doing this 4 only about 16 months and recently cleared the depts on there apartment and got a brand new Fiat Panda. read more at, Mel7.com
    1  2 •Reply•Share ›

    ambralita  DeltaFunk0 • 6 hours ago
    I have to agree with you Delta. I am a woman and do not need fancy expensive gifts. BUT I do expect simple gestures which show you care (a simple card, offer to help with dishes, lots of TLC, etc.). Also, do not need crazy expensive jewelry. The value is in the love you share (roll your eyes but it's true).
    33  •Reply•Share ›

    Teamski  ambralita • 5 hours ago
    So true! We got my wife's engagement ring at Service Merchandise for $200 and 23 years later, we are happy as can be. People put more into the act of getting married than they do the marriage itself. Pretty pathetic. Save the money and take the time to learn about what love and friendship is really about.
    34  •Reply•Share ›

    groksmith  DeltaFunk0 • 7 hours ago
    Why are you expected to do anything? Why isn't she cooking you a dinner, taking you to a ballgame and getting you a new screwdriver?
    55  2 •Reply•Share ›

    ambralita  groksmith • 5 hours ago
    Groksmith, SomeDoo, let me guess, you are single. When you are in love or genuinely love someone, you genuinely want to give and do something nice for them. It's not about what you get. And women should reciprocate. Whatever happened to guys genuinely wanting to be romantic? Is this such a bad thing? Just goes to show you how many men view women these days.
    12  1 •Reply•Share ›

    Keyser Söze  ambralita • 4 hours ago
    LOL!!!

    Of course the woman will always pull the, "romantic" card when an expensive ring becomes the topic of conversation.

    All of this is just simple prostitution on the woman's part.

    The ring is the, "payment" for sexual services, and when the payment becomes contested, the woman quickly dismisses any illusion of, "romance" and will quickly look to the courts to champion her whoredom.

    Wake up men, this is a rinsing and it has to stop. The institution of prostitution, I mean errrrm marriage has to come to an end if human beings in the modern world are to maintain any respect for each other.
    10  1 •Reply•Share ›

    Amanda Guyton  DeltaFunk0 • 6 hours ago
    Wow, really? For Valentine's, I make a card for my husband, and vice versa. It's a day to just do something extra nice for each other. No big pricetag needed.
    24  •Reply•Share ›

    Natasha Coe  DeltaFunk0 • 5 hours ago
    I wouldn't say that marketing works better on women so much as we're getting the better end of the deal so of course we're gonna want that stuff to happen. Marketing caters products to the wants of their consumers, for men and women. Either gender can easily fall prey.
    5  •Reply•Share ›

    Natasha Coe  Natasha Coe • 5 hours ago
    To note, though, I personally don't care about money and I made my husband take the diamond engagement ring he bought back, then we bought $30 bands from Sears to get married. Though, just recently I got a $60 ring for our wedding anniversary from Etsy. It's beautiful and made from my birthstone. <3
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    Fatmeh Kalouti  DeltaFunk0 • 4 hours ago
    I personally would rather have flowers and chocolate than a pair of diamond earrings.
    When a girl wants diamonds, it's simply for showing off.
    3  •Reply•Share ›

    SomeDooD123  DeltaFunk0 • 6 hours ago
    Women, amirite?
    2  •Reply•Share ›

    sonofsarai  DeltaFunk0 • an hour ago
    it's like any other biz, trying to get you to spend more than you need. excess is the only way capitalism is propped up. Whole industries are made of things you don't need like deodorant or antibacterial soap. The list goes on and on. Both the ones I mentioned can be replaced with regular soap and water.
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    realist512  jpass101 • 9 hours ago
    great post
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    noclist  jpass101 • 2 hours ago
    Personally, I'd give a Rochefoucauld, the thinnest water-resistant watch in the world. Singularly unique, sculptured in design, hand-crafted in Switzerland and water-resistant to three atmospheres. It tells time simultaneously in Monte Carlo, Beverly Hills, London, Paris, Rome and Gstaad.
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    Erzhik  jpass101 • 4 hours ago
    Holy s**t.. First ever post without a single down vote. Holy monkey balls.
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    Robert Glidewell  Go Hawkeyes • 8 hours ago
    I couldnt agree more. My wife found a VERY unique and elegant vintage ring that is one of a kind for $400. I do not care about my ring, I purchased a titanium ring for under $75. That sure beat the $15,000+ ring that looks like everybody elses and is probably gaudy as all heck. We also had our wedding at a State Park overlooking the Mississippi River.It was a better wedding than any I have ever been to and we spent under $1000 on the entire event (that was with dress, flower, food etc,). The entire wedding industry is a high pressure sales joke. Its all based on "prove how much you love someone with your money." People assume that if they don't spend a bunch of money on their wedding, then something is wrong with them. In reality, nothing was wrong with us, we now have our mortgage paid off...
    162  •Reply•Share ›

    Diane Wagner Turner  Robert Glidewell • 7 hours ago
    That sounds lovely! I would have felt very honored to have been invited to such a unique celebration.
    32  •Reply•Share ›

    IdaBlankenship  Robert Glidewell • 7 hours ago
    And it's pressure on the guests what kind of monetary gift to give.

    Out here in NJ, the "going rate" for a couple attending a wedding is a $200 gift --- more if you are close to the couple and/or a friend or relative.

    These dumb wedding halls start at $150 per plate for a wedding reception. Such a laugh....most of the wedding factories are owned by one person and you get the same crappy menus, the same crappy everything, as every other wedding reception site.
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    Robert Glidewell  hazze • 7 hours ago
    We catered it ourselves. We had cheesburgers and brats and all of the summer picnic salads and sides. Everyone had a great time, and it gave some of the guys a fun activity to do (grilling). And it was 5 years ago, not 50. But you are right about the catering business being another rip off if you let them be.
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    Dancehall General  Robert Glidewell • 5 hours ago
    Good for you!!! This is what I've been hoping mine would be like...
    5  •Reply•Share ›

    us_sixtycents  Robert Glidewell • 4 hours ago
    Precioussssssssssssss!
    4  •Reply•Share ›

    Jay Schuls  Go Hawkeyes • 7 hours ago
    JOP marriage 10.00
    Rings total 550.00
    After party bar tab 200.00
    No honeymoon
    No expensive gifts

    Married 23 years
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    conic123  Jay Schuls • 6 hours ago
    JOP marriage - $20.00
    Matching wedding bands - $100
    No diamond ring (until 10th wedding anniversary, then a small one that she picked and really loved) - $125.00
    No honeymoon
    No expensive gifts

    Married 22 years, mortgage paid off, no debt, in love and happy!

    It's not about material possessions, folks.

    Jay, it sounds like you and I both married very sensible ladies. Congrats!
    57  •Reply•Share ›

    David159  conic123 • 5 hours ago
    I'll see your 22 and raise it to 36 years. And the ring was $250 in 1976 and she still wears it every day. It is not about the ring....it's about making the right choice for life. Congratulations Jay, comic123 and anyone else that can say they married their best friend, forever....
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    SomeDooD123  Jay Schuls • 6 hours ago
    You lucky man!
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    Vserp  Go Hawkeyes • 8 hours ago
    A lot of poor people are very materialistic and insecure. Both sexes but it usually exhibits more in women because they're more likely to be vocal about the wedding ring, since society usually endorses it.

    A woman that demands a high cost ring and then also refuses to return it is probably one most people should avoid.
    76  1 •Reply•Share ›

    inyourhead00  Vserp • 7 hours ago
    You are absolutely correct. A woman who truly loves her man would be happy with whatever he can afford.
    64  •Reply•Share ›

    veggiegrrrl  inyourhead00 • 7 hours ago
    including a sterling silver band for $22.00
    30  •Reply•Share ›

    LovelyLinda  veggiegrrrl • 6 hours ago
    I got one from a gum ball machine...my man take good care of me.
    5  •Reply•Share ›

    Merrimon  inyourhead00 • 5 hours ago
    *for his love, not what he can afford.
    1  •Reply•Share ›

    Merrimon  inyourhead00 • 5 hours ago
    (and not necessarily up to that affordability lol)
    0  •Reply•Share ›

    jcns  Vserp • 5 hours ago
    yes and no.
    Insecure men like to buy big expensive toys. I am sure you have seen men in cars they should not be buying.
    2  2 •Reply•Share ›

    dragonfire77  jcns • 4 hours ago
    It goes both ways. A man who has way too many highly expensive toys is one to avoid just as a woman who has way too much jewelry. They're both compensating for something.
    2  1 •Reply•Share ›

    Vserp  jcns • 3 hours ago
    I know you were in too big of a rush to read my comment before posting yours, but I included both sexes. I agree with your example, I just would have preferred it if you had the civility to couch it as an addition or clarification rather than showing it as a disagreement. But probably you are female and that's all you know how to do, eh?
    2  2 •Reply•Share ›

    Diva85212  jcns • an hour ago
    this usually happens when men get old... mid life crisis anyone?? :) i know this.. because my daddy did it.. LOL! I think it is cute that they do that.
    0  •Reply•Share ›

    dragonfire77  Vserp • 4 hours ago
    A-freaking-men!
    0  •Reply•Share ›

    Zooompilot  Go Hawkeyes • 8 hours ago
    Try $15,000 on a platinum Tiffany setting, 1.85 carat cushion cut (VVS) pink diamond (her favorite color), another one carats of diamonds surrounding the center stone. 3 years later we're getting divorced. The difference betwen Go Hawkeyes and me is that I'm a stark raving idiot and he obviously is not.
    69  1 •Reply•Share ›

    veggiegrrrl  Zooompilot • 7 hours ago
    that's sad to hear. also, the resell value of former engagement jewelry is really bad. you might get 5k on craigslist or ebay. or less. sorry.
    14  •Reply•Share ›

    smackrock55  veggiegrrrl • 5 hours ago
    No way. A 1.85 carat VVS diamond would fetch at least 5K itself, probably closer to 8K. Cushion cut doesn't help, but still that size diamond with VVS inclusions is good quality.
    3  •Reply•Share ›

    jps05  veggiegrrrl • 7 hours ago
    He can probably get a little more than that for it...if he gets it back. Better off trying to get half of the appraised value in the divorce. I had a failed engagement, I got $4k off craigslist for a custom made ring that cost $9k.
    1  •Reply•Share ›

    TRex  Zooompilot • 7 hours ago
    Well at least in a divorce you ought to get about half of that back? Beats "quitter takes all". Hope that was 3 years of really good "whatever" you got out of the deal...
    6  •Reply•Share ›

    dragonfire77  Zooompilot • 3 hours ago
    Heard at a wedding once: "When you figure how much a wedding goes for and how long a marriage lasts, I figure my last son-in-law cost me about 12 bucks an hour...."
    1  •Reply•Share ›

    LovelyLinda  Zooompilot • 5 hours ago
    Thank you for admitting that! She married you for the ring obviously!
    Love is blind for all we know...for all we know our love will grow, that's what the man said!

    Your love didn't grow!
    1  •Reply•Share ›

    DeltaFunk0  Go Hawkeyes • 8 hours ago &#8722;
    I'm too young to want to be married any time soon. But I won't marry a woman who doesn't know marriage s a 2-way street. If I'm dropping a few grand on a ring, I would like something in return, like a motorcycle, or a Gibson Les Paul.
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    Offline Marlelar

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #2 on: March 22, 2013, 10:47:45 PM »
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  • Conditional gift?  As in Indian giver?  

    I think if she breaks it off she should give it back, if he breaks it off he should not expect it to be returned.

    What does a man do with a used engagement ring???  Save it for the next one? :fryingpan:

    Marsha

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #3 on: March 22, 2013, 10:51:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    Conditional gift?  As in Indian giver?  


    Isn't the point that it's supposed to symbolize a reciprocal promise?

    If a man breaks it off then yes I think it would be foolish to expect it back.

    If a woman breaks it off at her own whim and keeps the ring, it is trashy and shameless.  

    I wouldn't buy a diamond ring.  No way.  Even if I were rich.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #4 on: March 22, 2013, 11:11:02 PM »
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  • Women don't at all like the idea of a second-hand ring or a ring from a failed engagement.  This is in marked contrast to the way in which they demand that they themselves be viewed.


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 11:14:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew




    phearis  DeltaFunk0 • 6 hours ago
    I bought mine and my ex's rings off eBay. Then she cheated on me and I called it off and kicked her out. She was livid when she tried to pawn the ring and found out it was only worth about $50. hahahaha
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     :roll-laugh1:

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 04:09:41 AM »
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  • Any man who buys his betrothed-to-be a real diamond anymore is a fool.  

    At most a synthetic lab-formed carbon crystal is sufficient.  They are actual
    diamonds, but can be controlled so they are flawless or colorless or both.  

    Or get a cubic zirconia.  They are practically FREE compared to diamonds,
    and a JEWELER cannot tell them apart without a heat conductivity meter.  

    All you're doing is funding the RACKET.  

    Real gold or platinum in the rings and settings is fine, but that's not where
    the big money is.  

    If a diamond is such a big deal, you can say, "We'll save up for one for our
    tenth anniversary."  Then it gives you something to shoot for.  Plus, you're
    going to need the cash for the family at the beginning.  

    A very expensive ring is a waste in too many ways, and this article is a
    good example.  The more money you spend on jewelry, the more you're
    going to spend on insurance.  And then just try to collect when the ring
    is stolen or lost!  That happened to me.  The insurance company had
    promised up and down that it would be a FULL REPLACEMENT VALUE
    policy, and that is what the policy said, but when it came time to pay
    the claim, they used EVERY EXCUSE IN THE BOOK to pay less or nothing.
    We ended up with about HALF of what it would cost to replace the ring.  
    And that was AFTER all the money wasted on premiums.  We would have
    been better off without any insurance.  

    Anyone with a $40K ring is going to spend $10K on lawyers, insurance
    and bookkeeping to be sure all their ducks are in a row.  Is it worth that?

    The more value you sink into jewelry, the more you are at risk to lose
    when the house burns down or thieves break in to steal it.  That's the
    bottom line, folks.  It happens!


    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline songbird

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #7 on: March 24, 2013, 03:31:06 PM »
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  • The ring is a gift.  Keep the gift in budget.  If the gal calls it off and takes the ring consider yourself blessed.  It shows who she really is.  If she gives it back to you, at least she is good in that regards.  


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #8 on: March 24, 2013, 03:33:06 PM »
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  • Quote
    If the gal calls it off and takes the ring consider yourself blessed.


    It may be a blessing to be able to patiently endure injustice but it does not cease to be injustice.

    If women regard things like engagement rings as strictly being gratuitous gifts and imposing no reciprocal obligation of any kind when they receive them and wear them - then they shouldn't expect to get them.


    Offline Matthew

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #9 on: March 24, 2013, 03:42:09 PM »
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  • I agree that lots of money shouldn't be spent on a diamond ring. Certainly not "1 months' salary" (or is it 2 months' salary? How much are they up to these days?)

    That having been said...

    I don't think it's necessary to break off with all convention and custom and eschew a diamond ring altogether. It's simply not necessary.

    You can get a basic diamond ring (white gold, for example) for under $500. I think that's for the wedding ring as well as the engagement ring. That's not going to break any guy -- at least not any guy who is in a financial position to get married.

    That's what, 1 weeks' salary for a man making $25,000 a year?

    And such a ring will be plenty large without being gaudy. You won't need a magnifying glass to see the diamond. THAT kind of diamond you could get in a ring setting for probably $250.

    But remember -- we're TRADITIONAL Catholics which means you only get one marriage. Don't you think a young virgin who pledges her life to you -- and whom you claim to love -- deserves 1 weeks' salary of a $25K annual income? Come on! Let's be real here.

    You're saying you'll love and support her your whole life, and be there for her in every way, but you won't offer a physical sign of that pledge by "risking" $500? Give me a break.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #10 on: March 24, 2013, 03:48:50 PM »
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  • Here's a .77 carat solitaire engagement ring for $300
    14K yellow gold

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/77ct-Round-Brilliant-Cut-Diamond-Solitaire-Engagement-Ring-/130871172601?pt=Diamond_Solitaire_Rings&hash=item1e78879df9

    You could easily go up from there and still not spend a fortune.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #11 on: March 24, 2013, 03:51:23 PM »
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  • Let no one be confused:

    Bashing the modern world's idea of "bridezilla" and "princess for a day" is one thing.

    Bashing the modern world's tendency to spend WAY too much on wedding receptions is fine.

    But a decent Catholic girl can and should expect a token diamond ring from her future husband. ESPECIALLY (but not exclusively limited to) those girls who saved themselves for their future husbands.

    If her husband can't scrape together $300 for a ring, they might want to re-think their readiness for marriage.  An apartment costs much more than $300 for one month.

    Sorry to be harsh, but it's the truth.
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    Offline Telesphorus

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #12 on: March 24, 2013, 03:54:42 PM »
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  • I'm going to read up on the history of engagement rings.

    Believing your daughter deserves an engagement ring  - in particular a dimaond engagement ring (when Jews have a monopoly on diamonds) - is just nonsense.

    This has nothing to do with money or the lack of money.

    If young women think that engagement rings are just freely given gifts that they can keep as though they weren't wearing it on condition of a promise they made, they shouldn't expect one.




    Offline Telesphorus

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #13 on: March 24, 2013, 03:55:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    If her husband can't scrape together $300 for a ring, they might want to re-think their readiness for marriage.  An apartment costs much more than $300 for one month.

    Sorry to be harsh, but it's the truth.


    Only a fool would buy a worthless $300 dimaond ring, for any reason.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Engagement is off -- who gets the ring?
    « Reply #14 on: March 24, 2013, 03:59:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    If a man breaks it off then yes I think it would be foolish to expect it back.

    If a woman breaks it off at her own whim and keeps the ring, it is trashy and shameless.


    I agree with this.

     

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