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Offline spouse of Jesus

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Duty to correct at the cost of...
« on: October 05, 2010, 10:22:32 AM »
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  •   I wonder about the duty to correct those who have heretical ideas or sinful action.
    1- What if a catholic is in error because his priest teaches him errors? He won't leave that priest and listen to a lay person's word.

    2-what if someone in a false religion does something sinful which is nevertheless ok in that faith?


    Offline MrsZ

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    Duty to correct at the cost of...
    « Reply #1 on: October 06, 2010, 12:48:27 PM »
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  • I believe we are obligated to inform others of their errors according to the teachings of the Catholic Church:

    The spiritual works of mercy are:

    •To instruct the ignorant;
    •To counsel the doubtful;
    •To admonish sinners;
    •To bear wrongs patiently;
    •To forgive offences willingly;
    •To comfort the afflicted;
    •To pray for the living and the dead.

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.htm


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #2 on: October 06, 2010, 12:57:31 PM »
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  • Yes, and those Spiritual Works of Mercy are often overlooked these days in favor of the Corporal Works of Mercy.

    Which is more important, the body or the soul?

    The Novus Ordo focuses way too much on the body.

    Matthew
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    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 01:40:08 AM »
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  •   But when a priest teaches errors, it is useless if you try to convince his parisheners about the truth.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Duty to correct at the cost of...
    « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2010, 08:04:30 AM »
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  • If you tried; there comes a time to dust off your shoes and move on.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/


    Offline Belloc

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    « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2010, 10:30:00 AM »
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  • well put...

    "you cannot talk to people that are unhinged and it is a waste of breath to try, you cannot swing a door that is off its hinges and on the floor"
    -Bishop Williamson
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Dulcamara

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    « Reply #6 on: October 10, 2010, 01:04:35 PM »
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  • I've gotten a lot of grief for telling non-Catholics the Catholic truth. Funnily enough, the grief wasn't even from the non-Catholics, but from Catholics!

    All I can say is, either something is reality, or it isn't. If it is, then it is important for EVERYONE to know. If not, then nobody should believe in it or spread it.

    The Catholic faith is real. It's teachings are the truth about eternal realities. It's laws are God's real laws. Even without knowing an "official Church position" my common sense tells me that if something is real, it must be important to everyone. And if it's a reality that a person's actions can land the person in hell, then all the more so!

    All of my non-Catholic friends I've had in the last many years, knew I was Catholic, knew I had morals I believed were a matter of fact rather than opinion, and knew I would tell them what I thought if they were doing something messed up. As far as I know, all of them respected me for it, even if sometimes it drove them crazy, and even if they thought I was "a little overboard" (as true morality seems to most people).

    If I have lost any friendship over professing the truth, that is the problem of that person. If I ever cared about them, I did well to tell them the truth, even if they hated me for it. But those were all cases wherein all I stood to loose was their friendship, while they stood to loose their soul, their health, etc.. Those are important reasons to speak up, especially when the worst that could happen is someone gets mad at you or doesn't like you anymore.

    That being said, there is room for prudence in every decision. If preaching the faith gets your head blown off, in a situation where you could have lived without denying the faith by keeping silent, you probably should have kept your mouth shut. If talking about it only makes the person deeper in their hatred of God or religion, you probably should keep your mouth shut.

    Truth is great, but then there's just doing ALL damage and NO good. Sometimes there ARE reasons that would make not saying anything the right thing to do in a given situation. Like with the rest of life and morality, you DO have to use your common sense, and exercise some good judgment.

    Very little in life will be "always yes" or "always no" propositions. Even killing is justified in self defense. Likewise, there are times when telling the truth is prudent or even required, regardless of the cost, and times when we stand to actually hurt someone's chances of salvation more by saying something, than we would by NOT saying it.

    So really, I think telling the Catholic truth about things is good in most situations, even if the cost is high to us personally (like loosing a friend or a family member not liking us anymore)... but there are situations that are exceptions to that rule, wherein you would do more damage than good. It's something you have to judge carefully from situation to situation. Also there is a question of whether you are in a position where you obliged to say something or not (like a parent to a child), or of whether you're even in a position to say something (such as the difference between walking into an atheist meeting and preaching the Faith, versus giving your honest knowledge to a good friend that respects you, whom you might actually influence.)

    Important afterthought: We also must remember that ultimately each and every soul on earth is God's and in His hands. Often we THINK we can change everything, or that we have the power to influence where we really can't and don't. For the most part, the matter of salvation rests between God and the individual. We might be able to help by saying the truth, but the grace has to come from God, and the CHOICE can only be made by that person. Eg, verbally bashing them over the head with the truth repeatedly, for instance, usually doesn't help, because the mind of the individual is already made up solidly to do what they want to do and live how they want to live.
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Duty to correct at the cost of...
    « Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 01:28:05 PM »
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  •   Thanks for replies especially Dulcamara's.
    Sometimes it seems to me that speaking to a non-catholic about natural and moral virtues might make him more attracted to his own false religion which might teach some morality. Also some say that women and especially girls have no right to speak against violence and certain sins because they never know how it feels to be a man.
      As a result any act of telling the truth easyily ends in a heated feministic discussion or the old modernism versus religion debate. :barf:


    Offline PartyIsOver221

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    « Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 04:57:14 AM »
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  • I know this is taboo in this forum, but here it comes  :nunchaku:


    Speaking out about sedevacantism and the truth it contains toward Novus Ordo'ites and false traditionalists is a very stressful thing, because it seems so rampant. I really have just recently been of the "one-twice brush shoes off" mentality because there is no use talking to someone with no sense of logic, truth, reading anything of value or looking at the news of the figures in the "Church" today.

    There, I said it, I'll put on the asbestos now, but I had to share what I feel.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 01:36:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: PartyIsOver221
    I know this is taboo in this forum, but here it comes  :nunchaku:


    Speaking out about sedevacantism and the truth it contains toward Novus Ordo'ites and false traditionalists is a very stressful thing, because it seems so rampant. I really have just recently been of the "one-twice brush shoes off" mentality because there is no use talking to someone with no sense of logic, truth, reading anything of value or looking at the news of the figures in the "Church" today.

    There, I said it, I'll put on the asbestos now, but I had to share what I feel.


    I think going out and trying to convince people of sedevacantism is not something that will bear good fruits, it's shocking, and it doesn't solve all the problems.  I am not a sedevacantist, but I have to admit, it's hard to defend against sedevacantist arguments.  The only approach that seems to work is to argue that sedevacantism destroys the church - but that hardly answers their arguments, it just leaves the Catholic in a seemingly untenable position.

    The important thing is to convince people that they can never be bound by modernism, by liberalism, by authority that would bind people to error or discard faith and piety.  Authority, when exercised in such a way, is absolutely null and void.  The God of the modernists and liberals cannot bind anyone to anything, and ultimately, we are Catholics because we care about God's will, not the will of men.

    It's important to remember that in many traditional chapels, which start to manifest cult-like tendencies.

    Their assumed authority, which is only given to them by virtue of the crisis in the church, gives them absolutely no authority to impose false morality - for example - when certain groups try to control who is permitted to marry who - when they attempt to forbid criticism, or forbid mention of topics like sedevacantism - they are operating completely outside the scope of their authority.

    As for liberal trads, just understand they're not on your side, their main objective is to accommodate Catholicism to the world - so just ignore all the insults they heap on you and prove how wrong they are.