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Author Topic: No True Scotsman  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Matthew

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No True Scotsman
« on: May 27, 2022, 09:49:05 AM »
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  • My least favorite "fallacy" is "No true scotsman". Perhaps because it gets mis-used so much? Because it seems to me there IS an objective point at which a person GENUINELY deserves to be excluded from a given "group".


    "Joe Biden and Nancy Peℓσѕι -- look at how evil, morally bankrupt, and corrupt they are. Apparently the Catholic Faith does nothing for human beings to make them better people?"

    "But Joe Biden and Nanci Peℓσѕι aren't real Catholics."

    "Ah, I understand... 'No true scotsman.' You do realize that's a fallacy, bro! Checkmate."
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    Offline Sir Percival

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    Re: No True Scotsman
    « Reply #1 on: May 27, 2022, 09:58:07 AM »
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  • (I know you’re satirizing)

    Hmmm…nahhhhh.

    No True Scotsman fallacy is as follows:

    All X are Y.

    (the claim that all X are Y is clearly refuted)

    Then all true X are Y.

    Premise two hasn’t been established for PeloJєωi & Bi(sniff your hair)den.

    What it means to be Roman Catholic has been defined by specific criteria most succinctly laid out by Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis.

    Hair sniffer and child killer don’t meet those criteria therefore they are not Roman Catholic.

    It’s not that they are not “true” or “pure” Roman Catholics. Rather, they aren’t Roman Catholic anymore than a person who doesn’t have maternal Jєωιѕн lineage (who didn’t convert) would be considered a тαℓмυdic Jєω or a person claiming to be Muslim would be considered Muslim without the Shahada. Just doesn’t fit the criteria necessary for membership.

    Therefore this argument sucks chocolate milk through a straw. :popcorn:
    “How can the ignorant teach others? How can the licentious make others modest? And how can the impure make others pure? If anyone hates peace, how can he make others peaceable ? Or if anyone has soiled his hands with baseness, how can he cleanse the impurities of another? We read also that if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch [Matt. 15:14]. But first correct yourselves, in order that, free from blame , you may be able to correct those who are subject to you.”

    Pope Urban II


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: No True Scotsman
    « Reply #2 on: May 27, 2022, 01:35:28 PM »
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  • That's what I was thinking -- it SEEMS to be this fallacy maybe to an idiot, but there IS such a thing as objective truth and criteria for things like membership.

    Also, I don't see the utility of "ALL X are Y." in the first place. If I could posit that 99.9% of X are Y, I'd be just as happy. There are always exceptions to every rule.


    Similarly, I don't care if you can show me one or two black men who hate basketball, who never eat (or enjoy) fried chicken, watermelon, or kool-aid. Or who LOVE to swim.

    That wouldn't prove anything, except that they are the exception to the rule. Nothing more. The general rule would hold more than ever.

    There are a few females in engineering, too. They are the exception. Even among them, many of them don't do as much work, or any work. 
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: No True Scotsman
    « Reply #3 on: May 27, 2022, 06:07:02 PM »
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  • What it means to be Roman Catholic has been defined by specific criteria most succinctly laid out by Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis.

    Hair sniffer and child killer don’t meet those criteria therefore they are not Roman Catholic.
    .

    Thank you. I was just about to say this exact thing. There are objective criteria that determine whether someone is Catholic or not. Not everyone who claims to be Catholic meets those criteria. Peℓσѕι claims to meet those criteria but does not, therefore she is not Catholic.

    The people saying this is "no true Scotsman" fallacy do not know or believe in the criteria that determine if someone is Catholic or not. Basically they don't know what a Catholic even is to begin with.