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Author Topic: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?  (Read 3403 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2023, 06:57:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on February 27, 2023, 08:24:03 AM
    I've always wondered why this rule isn't translated into English, and instead is translated into unintelligible gibberish. In English you say, "I'm 10. I'm 20. I'm 37 years old." You don't say, "I've completed my 28th year." No one has any idea what that means. I sure don't.

    Because it's completely unclear and ambiguous to say "until 59".  Canon Law says that you are obglied to fast through the completion of your 59th year, which happens on your 59th birthday.  It's crystal clear and I have no idea why people are struggling with it at all.  On my first birthday, I have completed my first year.  On my 59th birthday, I have completed my 59th year and am beginning my 60th.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #31 on: February 27, 2023, 06:59:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 27, 2023, 06:55:37 PM
    See, here's the difference.  What do you mean "until age 59" ... inclusive or exclusive?  I have no idea what you or Quo in the next post mean.

    But Canon Law makes it clearly that you are no longer obliged to fast beginning on your 59th birthday.
    .

    I heard somewhere a while back that John 23 raised the upper age from 59 to 60. That might account for some of the confusion.

    But seriously, why don't these "translators" actually translate this into English? In English we don't say, "your 59th birthday." We say, "When you turn 59."

    I've seen this quoted even in parish bulletins with unintelligible statements such as "those who have achieved their 21st year", or "those who have completed their 59th year". They don't realize that during your first year you are 0 years old, and that you turn 1 at the end of your first year. And achieved your 21st year? The beginning of it or the end of it?

    I really don't understand what's hard about saying, "The fast ceases when you turn 59."

    It is completely unambiguous and intelligible to everyone to say "I am 59 years old" or "I just turned 59 years old yesterday," or "When you turn 59 you are no longer required to fast." So I don't understand why those aren't the ways used to state age limits in something so important as the fast law.
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    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #32 on: February 27, 2023, 07:00:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 27, 2023, 06:57:47 PM
    On my first birthday, I have completed my first year.
    .

    Whoa there ... some people consider the day you were born to be a birthday, so by that criterion you turn 1 on your second birthday. :trollface:
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    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #33 on: February 27, 2023, 09:59:36 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 27, 2023, 06:57:47 PM
    Because it's completely unclear and ambiguous to say "until 59".  Canon Law says that you are obglied to fast through the completion of your 59th year, which happens on your 59th birthday.  It's crystal clear and I have no idea why people are struggling with it at all.  On my first birthday, I have completed my first year.  On my 59th birthday, I have completed my 59th year and am beginning my 60th.

    When you stop and think about it for a minute, yes, it does make perfect sense, but it's not the way Americans are generally used to thinking about age.  When we say "Joe is 40 years old", we mean that he has had his 40th birthday and has not yet had his 41st birthday.  

    I was thinking just tonight of the lyric to a John Denver song (not something I normally do) that goes "he was born in the summer of his twenty-seventh year" ("born" here in some figurative sense of rebirth).  Simply put, he was 26 when this happened... but everyone who hears this thinks "oh, that means he was 27".  Again, a way of measuring one's age with which Americans aren't familiar.

    No right or wrong to it, just common convention.
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #34 on: November 03, 2023, 07:19:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on February 24, 2023, 10:50:41 PM
    Here's what Jone says:




    So the way I read it, that means 59, i.e., the day you turn 59, you have "begun your sixtieth year", and are thus no longer obliged to fast.

    This may be a more "official" or "canonical" way of phrasing it, but it's confusing.  He just needed to say "from ages 21 through 58".

    I have "aged out" of fasting, but I keep the Ash Wednesday and Good Friday fasts as best I can --- due to health reasons, I can never guarantee that I can do it precisely, and in practice, it works out something like "2/3 of a meal" three times a day, for a total of two full meals.  I do have to take liquid nutrition, as I must receive small amounts of some kind of food or drink throughout the day, I usually do this with dairy or protein beverages.


    This chart corroborates what you are saying here. The using of the words “over” and “under” help with understanding the meaning.

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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #35 on: November 03, 2023, 07:22:22 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on February 24, 2023, 10:50:41 PM
    Here's what Jone says:




    So the way I read it, that means 59, i.e., the day you turn 59, you have "begun your sixtieth year", and are thus no longer obliged to fast.

    This may be a more "official" or "canonical" way of phrasing it, but it's confusing.  He just needed to say "from ages 21 through 58".

    I have "aged out" of fasting, but I keep the Ash Wednesday and Good Friday fasts as best I can --- due to health reasons, I can never guarantee that I can do it precisely, and in practice, it works out something like "2/3 of a meal" three times a day, for a total of two full meals.  I do have to take liquid nutrition, as I must receive small amounts of some kind of food or drink throughout the day, I usually do this with dairy or protein beverages.


    This chart below corroborates what you are saying here. The using of the words “over” and “under” help with understanding the meaning.


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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #36 on: November 03, 2023, 04:37:58 PM »
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    • We are 70. We still fast and abstain.  Jesus asks us to, and the church laws say as they do, and the doctor will tell you to abstain and fast, ha!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Does the age of fasting stop when you reach age 59 or 60?
    « Reply #37 on: November 03, 2023, 05:03:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on November 03, 2023, 07:19:32 AM

    This chart corroborates what you are saying here. The using of the words “over” and “under” help with understanding the meaning.

    Yes, I saw that earlier.  It would have been clearer if it had said it does not apply if "59 or over".  "Over 59" sounds like it might be 60+.

    But I guess that 1 minute over 59 is over 59.

    Canon Law is very precise though and says that the law applies until you have reached your 60th year.  You reach your 60th year on your 59th birthday.  0 is your first year.  In fact, there are some cultures (including Hungarian), where if someone asked you on your 59th birthday (59th anniversary of your birth) how old you are, they would say 60, meaning that they're in their 60th year.  Those texts that claim you have to fast until 60 do not recognize this, the 0 year as being your FIRST year of life.
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