Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: PenitentWoman on August 07, 2012, 05:39:27 PM
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If the parent of an illegitimate child gets married (but not to the other biological parent) is the child still considered illegitimate in the eyes of the Catholic church?
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If the parent of an illegitimate child gets married (but not to the other biological parent) is the child still considered illegitimate in the eyes of the Catholic church?
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02579b.htm
(1) The subsequent marriage of the parents of an illegitimate has, by a fiction of law, a retroactive power which carries the marriage back to the time of the birth of the offspring and covers it with lawful wedlock. In order that the fiction of law may produce this effect, the parents, at the time of the conception or, at least, at the birth of such offspring, must have been capable of contracting lawful marriage. Therefore, this more of legitimation is applicable only to natural illegitimates. And these, though legitimized by the subsequent marriage of the parents, or even by an Apostolic dispensation, are forever excluded from the dignity of the cardinalate.
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If the parent of an illegitimate child gets married (but not to the other biological parent) is the child still considered illegitimate in the eyes of the Catholic church?
I believe that, according to canon law, the defect of illegitimacy may normatively only be cured by the marriage of the child's parents and even then is only a legal fiction, and there are some other juridical means as well. Subsequent marriage of one parent to a non-parent does not. As I understand it, the question of illegitimacy insofar as a human's relationship to the Church deals primarily with the question of receiving Holy Orders, though practically it does greatly affect one's relationship with others.
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Telesphorus, thank you for finding that for me. I wasn't sure if newadvent was a reliable website or not.
JohnGrey, I guess maybe I should at least be thankful that I was blessed with a daughter and not a son. That sounds horrible, but at least for a girl it won't create a direct impediment to a possible vocation.
I asked because on the tradition in action website, it says this:
What are the solutions for such a scandalous situation?
The first is marriage. If the woman finds another man of upright character who marries her in the Church and takes her and the child under his custody, her situation is regularized. He covers her shame with his honor and his name.
I was not sure what 'regularized' meant for the child.
This confuses me though:
This confuses me: http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/k011rpUnwedMothers_Stretenovic.html
“The Church, faithful to her traditional policy in favor of marriage, abandons her rigor when the person repairs the fault. It was a strong rigor, indeed, but one can verify that Canon Law, which aims at the reparation of the disorder as much as for its condemnation, is wide open and favors legitimizing [the illegitimate child] by a subsequent marriage”
This, to me, implies subsequent marriage could be to someone other than the natural father. I might be reading it wrong.
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As I posted before in another thread - Fr. Sretenovic is far from an expert & shouldn't be posting like this on the internet. Personalitywise he's very nice but the facts are that he grew up NO, went to a NO seminary where he was ordained, then went to an independent priest who taught him the TLM. He himself admits that his training was deficient, yet he doesn't go to a traditional seminary for further training for some reason. He's young & inexperienced & under the tutelage of a priest who loves being a one-liner comic in the pulpit - among all his other outside interests.
An illegitimate child will always be known as such, no matter who the mother marries. The mother usually ended up marrying the father, but that's not the case nowadays.
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An illegitimate child will always be known as such, no matter who the mother marries.
Understood.
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For what it's worth:
[Engelbert Dollfuss] was born in Texing in Lower Austria to unmarried mother Josepha Dollfuss and her lover Joseph Weninger. The couple of peasant origin was unable to get married due to financial problems. Josepha married landowner Leopold Schmutz a few months after her son's birth, who did not adopt Engelbert however as his own child. Dollfuss, who was raised as a devout Roman Catholic, was shortly in seminary before deciding to study law at the University of Vienna and then economics at the University of Berlin.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss)
Just an example of an illegitimate boy, whose mother married someone other than the father, and who (albeit briefly) was admitted to a seminary.
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If the parent of an illegitimate child gets married (but not to the other biological parent) is the child still considered illegitimate in the eyes of the Catholic church?
only for whites, havent you heard? all other races are uncontrollably sex perverts........
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For what it's worth:
[Engelbert Dollfuss] was born in Texing in Lower Austria to unmarried mother Josepha Dollfuss and her lover Joseph Weninger. The couple of peasant origin was unable to get married due to financial problems. Josepha married landowner Leopold Schmutz a few months after her son's birth, who did not adopt Engelbert however as his own child. Dollfuss, who was raised as a devout Roman Catholic, was shortly in seminary before deciding to study law at the University of Vienna and then economics at the University of Berlin.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss)
Just an example of an illegitimate boy, whose mother married someone other than the father, and who (albeit briefly) was admitted to a seminary.
promiscuity is inherent in non-whites according to some ehre at CI.....so, all is forgiven, immediately, with Dolfuss' mother, a WHITE, hence, pure person.... :kick-can:
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For what it's worth:
[Engelbert Dollfuss] was born in Texing in Lower Austria to unmarried mother Josepha Dollfuss and her lover Joseph Weninger. The couple of peasant origin was unable to get married due to financial problems. Josepha married landowner Leopold Schmutz a few months after her son's birth, who did not adopt Engelbert however as his own child. Dollfuss, who was raised as a devout Roman Catholic, was shortly in seminary before deciding to study law at the University of Vienna and then economics at the University of Berlin.
Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engelbert_Dollfuss)
Just an example of an illegitimate boy, whose mother married someone other than the father, and who (albeit briefly) was admitted to a seminary.
There's a massive difference between being admitted to seminary for study and being ordained. Assuming he didn't petition for and receive a dispensation to work toward Holy Orders, it's entirely possible that he had not yet been thoroughly examined for impediments, which would've happened before he received the diaconate.
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JohnGrey, I guess maybe I should at least be thankful that I was blessed with a daughter and not a son. That sounds horrible, but at least for a girl it won't create a direct impediment to a possible vocation.
This is so, as a religious profession does cure illegitimacy, though it would still prevent her from advancement to the rank of abbess or prioress.
I asked because on the tradition in action website, it says this:
What are the solutions for such a scandalous situation?
The first is marriage. If the woman finds another man of upright character who marries her in the Church and takes her and the child under his custody, her situation is regularized. He covers her shame with his honor and his name.
I was not sure what 'regularized' meant for the child.
The marriage would regularize her, not the child. In entering into marriage, her role as mother is brought into harmony with the fundamental paradigm of the Christian family, and her motherhood is no longer an open confession of a prior indiscretion.
This confuses me though:
This confuses me: http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/k011rpUnwedMothers_Stretenovic.html
“The Church, faithful to her traditional policy in favor of marriage, abandons her rigor when the person repairs the fault. It was a strong rigor, indeed, but one can verify that Canon Law, which aims at the reparation of the disorder as much as for its condemnation, is wide open and favors legitimizing [the illegitimate child] by a subsequent marriage”
This, to me, implies subsequent marriage could be to someone other than the natural father. I might be reading it wrong.
Thorn was correct in questioning the assetions of Mr. Sretenovic (I refuse him the dignity of Father until I know that he has been properly ordained in a valid rite), given that he was formed in the spiritual sickness of the conciliar anti-church. In fact, I find no basis for his fundamental point at all. Even in the perfidious conciliar code of "canon law" it states:
Illegitimate children are legitimated by the subsequent valid or putative marriage of their parents or by a rescript of the Holy See.
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Thank you.
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I'm not sure why there would be thumbs down to the people who answered my question. I wanted to know the truth. I'm not so good at vetting reliable Traditional Catholic resources yet, so I asked. I am grateful for honesty, even when it is personally painful for me. If I didn't want the truth, there are certainly other places I could go back to.
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The Church's law reveals both her justice and mercy. Justice because she is not indifferent to sin, especially public sin, and mercy because she shows clemency to those who are sincerely contrite over their past offenses as opposed to those who are not.
It should be said that illegitimacy is only a canonical impediment to ordination, not a natural one, and therefore admits of dispensation. The 1911 Catholic Encyclopedia article quoted by Telesphorus gives a good description,
This law is not established and laid down as a punishment for the person to whom it is applied. It safeguards the honour and dignity of Holy orders. The clerical state which has the dispensing of the mysteries of God must be beyond reproach. No stain should be upon it, no blame possible. Therefore the Church raises the barrier of illegitimacy before the entrance to the priesthood. Thus the crime of the parents is held up to just reprobation, and is condemned even in the lives of their offspring. The danger of the father's incontinence being continued in the life of the son is greatly lessened, for strong indications of purity of life must be given before the door of God's ministry can be opened.
The defect of illegitimate birth may be cured in four ways: (1) By the subsequent marriage of the parents; (2) By a rescript of the pope; (3) By religious profession; (4) By a dispensation.
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The Church's law reveals both her justice and mercy. Justice because she is not indifferent to sin, especially public sin, and mercy because she shows clemency to those who are sincerely contrite over their past offenses as opposed to those who are not.
Thank you, Nishant.
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PW,
I know why you ask this question. But do not fret! You're suffering will bring your closer to our Lord, and perhaps, shorten your time in Purgatory.
Perhaps Our Lord has prepared a husband for you, who will love you and adopt your daughter as his own. This would be an amazing man, because not all men can love children that are not biologically theirs.
Or perhaps, Our Lord has decided to use you as example of what true repentance, obedience, and submissiveness is.
Have faith! The Lord is preparing you and your blessed daughter for something.
In a really dark time, a priest shared with me this wisdom. Yes, your sin was public and wicked, but Our Lord, when we ask and are obedient, can use your sin and repentance for something incredibly good. It has been true in my own life.....
St. Mary Magadalen, pray for us.
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PW,
I know why you ask this question. But do not fret! You're suffering will bring your closer to our Lord, and perhaps, shorten your time in Purgatory.
Perhaps Our Lord has prepared a husband for you, who will love you and adopt your daughter as his own. This would be an amazing man, because not all men can love children that are not biologically theirs.
Or perhaps, Our Lord has decided to use you as example of what true repentance, obedience, and submissiveness is.
Have faith! The Lord is preparing you and your blessed daughter for something.
In a really dark time, a priest shared with me this wisdom. Yes, your sin was public and wicked, but Our Lord, when we ask and are obedient, can use your sin and repentance for something incredibly good. It has been true in my own life.....
St. Mary Magadalen, pray for us.
Thank you for such reassuring words. I am praying to be meek and faithful as I wait to see what the Lord has planned for me.