Author Topic: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?  (Read 676 times)

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Offline Alan

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Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
« on: October 31, 2019, 08:21:12 PM »
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  • Dear all,

    Some days which used to be Holy Days of Obligation have been removed from the Feast Days Calendar, ie they are no longer Holy Days of Obligation.

    My question is: do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?  Do you still see it as an obligation?


    Thank you in advance.
    Alan

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #1 on: October 31, 2019, 10:15:09 PM »
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  • Another way of asking the same question: 

    Is a law which works against the common good, thereby failing the test of legitimacy, actually a law?

    And if not, are the previous laws really the ones still in force?

    With these two questions in mind, how do we appraise the deletion of these holy days of obligation?
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #2 on: October 31, 2019, 11:38:39 PM »
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  • Dear all,

    Some days which used to be Holy Days of Obligation have been removed from the Feast Days Calendar, ie they are no longer Holy Days of Obligation.

    My question is: do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?  Do you still see it as an obligation?


    Thank you in advance.
    Alan
    I guess you are talking about the counterfeit Novus Ordo Vatican II church, for I know of no Holy Days of Obligation the have been removed. Can you be more detailed, what Holy Days have been removed?
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Alan

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #3 on: October 31, 2019, 11:48:19 PM »
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  • It's All Saints Day, removed in Australia.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 06:39:32 AM »
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  • Another way of asking the same question:

    Is a law which works against the common good, thereby failing the test of legitimacy, actually a law?

    And if not, are the previous laws really the ones still in force?

    With these two questions in mind, how do we appraise the deletion of these holy days of obligation?
    I'm pretty sure there were many, many other instances of Holy Days being removed down the centuries. 


    Offline cath4ever

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 07:32:44 AM »
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  • Holy Days of Obligation are not uniform throughout the universal church, because they were regulated by national Bishops' conferences even before Vatican II. Historically the United States has had less Holy Days of Obligation than other countries, especially the countries of Europe. However, I believe (though I'm not sure) that Canada only had 5 Holy Days before Vatican II. The United States has six.

    In many countries of Europe days such as the Epiphany (January 6), St. Joseph's day during Lent (March 19th), Easter Monday, Pentecost Monday,  and the Feast of Sts. Peter and Paul (June 29) are/were Holy Days of Obligation. I think in Ireland St. Patrick's Day is a Holy Day of Obligation, and there may be others for different countries, but those are the more common ones that are Holy Days for other countries.

    Being a US resident, I attend Mass on all six Holy Days of Obligation observed in the US, regardless of whether the Modernists say you have to or not. I also try to attend Mass on those other days that are Holy Days on the Universal calendar, especially the Epiphany, even though it is not a Holy Day here in the US.

    Offline Bellator Dei

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #6 on: November 01, 2019, 08:48:07 AM »
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  • The New Canon Law (1917) 
    A Commentary and Summary of the New Code of Canon Law 
    By Rev. Stanislaus Woywod, O.F.M.


    Quote
    TITLE XIII 

    Holidays of Obligation

    1090. Holidays of obligation for the universal Church are only the following : All the Sundays, the feasts of Christmas, Cir cumcision, Epiphany, Ascension, Corpus Christi, Immaculate Conception, Assumption, St. Joseph, SS. Peter and Paul, and, All Saints. 

    The patron feasts are no longer holidays of obligation, but the Ordinaries of dioceses can transfer the external solemnity to the next following Sunday. If any of the above mentioned feasts have been lawfully abolished or transferred in some country, nothing should be done concerning these feasts without consulting the Holy See. In the United States four of these feasts are abolished as holidays of obligation, namely Epiphany, Corpus Christi, St. Joseph, and SS. Peter and Paul. (Canon 1247) 
    Please pray for all of the holy souls in purgatory.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #7 on: November 01, 2019, 09:54:31 AM »
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  • Another way of asking the same question:

    Is a law which works against the common good, thereby failing the test of legitimacy, actually a law?

    And if not, are the previous laws really the ones still in force?

    With these two questions in mind, how do we appraise the deletion of these holy days of obligation?

    If the lawgiver is legitimate, then a removed Holy Day of Obligation cannot bind anyone under pain of sin.  Lots of times over the history of the Church, various disciplines have been relaxed.  One can ALWAYS make the argument that it's "against the common good", but your opinion doesn't matter ... nor does your opinion have the ability to bind others' consciences.  You are free to continue observing the prior discipline yourself, but it's no longer law.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #8 on: November 01, 2019, 09:56:49 AM »
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  • If you're a sedevacantist, then the lawgiver is not legitimate and the previous discipline remains in force.

    If you're a sede-doubtist, like myself, then the lawgiver is doubtful, and the law is doubtful ... and doubtful laws cannot bind under pain of sin.

    If you're sedeplenist, then the lawgiver is legitimate, and the Holy Days of obligation that were removed are in fact no longer obligatory.

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #9 on: November 01, 2019, 10:33:06 AM »
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  • If you're a sedevacantist, then the lawgiver is not legitimate and the previous discipline remains in force.

    If you're a sede-doubtist, like myself, then the lawgiver is doubtful, and the law is doubtful ... and doubtful laws cannot bind under pain of sin.

    If you're sedeplenist, then the lawgiver is legitimate, and the Holy Days of obligation that were removed are in fact no longer obligatory.
    This. The idea that any random Catholic can just go "no, that's a bad law" and insist that it actually doesn't apply is ridiculous. Of course if you wish to go on non-obligatory days, that can only be a good thing. But to insist that the law itself isn't changed and the obligation is still there just because, in your private judgement, the change in law was a mistake - is nonsensical and completely spits in the face of the Church's authority. 

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 12:39:59 AM »
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  • This. The idea that any random Catholic can just go "no, that's a bad law" and insist that it actually doesn't apply is ridiculous. Of course if you wish to go on non-obligatory days, that can only be a good thing. But to insist that the law itself isn't changed and the obligation is still there just because, in your private judgement, the change in law was a mistake - is nonsensical and completely spits in the face of the Church's authority.
    I think the distinction I make, and maybe I'm still wrong about this, like you can make a judgment for yourself but you can't make a judgment for anyone else.

    So for instance you could conclude (and to be clear, this would still be part of the crisis, not "ordinary operating principle" so to speak) that the Novus Ordo is dangerous and doubtful, and so you'll avoid it even if that means staying home, but you wouldn't have the authority to tell someone else they can't go.

    Fasting and Holy Day obligations change all the time though, so I don't really get why even under an R + R paradigm those wouldn't "stick" so to speak.


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #11 on: November 03, 2019, 04:56:52 AM »
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  • Before I escaped the Novus Ordo, I noted to the priest that only a handful of people showed up for Holy Days in spite of the fact that he had 3 services available:  One on the evening before, one in the morning, and one in the evening of the Holy Day.  Yet, add all three of these services together, only about half, if that, of the parish showed up.

    In spite of this generous availability, no one was going to confession the following Sunday.

    So, in general, most people in the Novus Ordo don't even go their services on Holy Days that their church says are still on the calendar.  Furthermore, they don't consider it any sort of obligtion under the pain of sin.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: Do you still go to Mass on ex-Holy Days of Obligation?
    « Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 08:11:06 AM »
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  • Alan, the answer to your question is usually I do. I fully accept however that the Church, even the NO Church, had the power to no longer make them all obligatory just as Sunday Mass is. This they did, but I stick to the tradition I was reared in and still go.

     

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