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Poll

Where do you stand on Marriage Prenups and State Marriage Licenses?

I FAVOR a Catholic prenup and REFUSE a state marriage license.
2 (8.3%)
I REFUSE a Catholic Prenup and ACCEPT a state marriage license.
1 (4.2%)
I accept Catholic marriage vows and state laws as written (and pray I'm not divorced).
13 (54.2%)
I don't have a firm opinion on either one.
3 (12.5%)
I hope to get to Heaven by remaining single.
5 (20.8%)

Total Members Voted: 20

Voting closed: July 05, 2018, 07:43:47 PM

Author Topic: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?  (Read 24305 times)

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Re: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2018, 08:38:55 AM »
^This.   And work on making yourself a virtuous potential spouse too, which would preclude your future virtuous spouse wanting to dump you.  

Praying together and striving to lead a virtuous Catholic married life are key elements.

But how to protect the marriage against the continual assaults of a world saturated with feminism, materialism and pornography?

And when one spouse falls and runs to the divorce courts, the trad priests who can help you are few and far between.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2018, 09:03:33 AM »
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But, I also know that no amount of legal paperwork is going to make a happy marriage.
This is called, in logic, "moving the goalposts", meaning you are changing the goal of the debated action.  The purpose of a prenup is not to ensure happiness, because it can't.  So your point is irrelevant.

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A woman of very low character is going to get what she wants even if she has to take you out of the picture in the process, while a woman of high morals will never resort to having the courts impose vengeance for her.
In our day and age, ANYONE can go from pious to a loss of faith in a matter of a few years.  I'm not saying it happens a lot, but there's plenty of people I know who grew up Trad who are now atheists.  Women can lose their faith just like men can get addicted to vice or drinking.

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Skip the paperwork and ask God to send you a virtuous spouse.
Marriage is one of the most important and difficult endeavors 2 people are EVER going to go through (especially in our day, when there is no help from the Church, when families are spread out, when society is anti-marriage) and your answer is that prayer will solve everything.  That's true only to a certain point.  We are both physical and spiritual beings, therefore whatever we do requires a physical action, in addition to prayer.

I can pray that God sends me food each day, but I have to work for it.  I can pray that God helps me find a new house, but I have to go look at houses to actually see which one is good.  I can pray for a happy marriage/pious spouse, but 1) a happy marriage takes CONSTANT effort and for a catholic to stay pious takes CONSTANT effort, both physical and spiritual.  Not one or the other, but both.

Your argument is, like most of the arguments on this thread, pure idealism, and skips practical/physical action.

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And work on making yourself a virtuous potential spouse too, which would seriously lessen the likelihood of your future virtuous spouse wanting to dump you.
 Thank you for being honest and using the word "lessen" which does not mean eliminate.  Therefore, you admit the threat of divorce still exists.  Therefore, a prenup *could* be of use.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2018, 09:17:55 AM »
It's ironic that JVK put out a "soap opera scenario" where the husband is divorced for non-church approved reasons and none of you women have condemned the hypothetical woman for serious sin.  Anytime you criticized "her" actions, it was always qualified, always indirectly justified, always given the benefit of the doubt.  And all of you claim to be in happy marriages, with years of experience.

The hypothetic wife should be labeled as a homewrecker, and the husband labeled an immature, sorry excuse for a man.  Neither is a good catholic.  But separation/divorce is a step that cannot be taken lightly, as did the hypothetical wife.  She committed a hypothetically grave sin which mocks her marriage vows and she should be called out for it.

Seems to me that even good, catholic women like y'all are infected with feminism and worldly attitudes about divorce.  So even if a man prays for a "pious wife" such a woman is still partially-infected with feminism and the state's fight against holy matrimony.  It's unavoidable.  Your reactions prove so.

Re: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2018, 09:45:00 AM »
It's ironic that JVK put out a "soap opera scenario" where the husband is divorced for non-church approved reasons and none of you women have condemned the hypothetical woman for serious sin.  Anytime you criticized "her" actions, it was always qualified, always indirectly justified, always given the benefit of the doubt.  And all of you claim to be in happy marriages, with years of experience.

The hypothetic wife should be labeled as a homewrecker, and the husband labeled an immature, sorry excuse for a man.  Neither is a good catholic.  But separation/divorce is a step that cannot be taken lightly, as did the hypothetical wife.  She committed a hypothetically grave sin which mocks her marriage vows and she should be called out for it.

Seems to me that even good, catholic women like y'all are infected with feminism and worldly attitudes about divorce.  So even if a man prays for a "pious wife" such a woman is still partially-infected with feminism and the state's fight against holy matrimony.  It's unavoidable.  Your reactions prove so.

Exactly, many of these women are infected with the Jezebel spirit.

As I said before, their opposition to prenups, and their insistence on a State marriage license, is not based off of Catholic teaching & tradition as they want us to believe, but rather out of a deeply ingrained, indoctrinated, self-serving, feminist ego resisting anything that neutralizes women's position over men.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Do you favor State Marriage Licenses & Prenuptual Agreements ?
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2018, 09:59:20 AM »
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Exactly, many of these women are infected with the Jezebel spirit.

As I said before, their opposition to prenups, and their insistence on a State marriage license, is not based off of Catholic teaching & tradition as they want us to believe, but rather out of a deeply ingrained, indoctrinated, self-serving, feminist ego resisting anything that neutralizes women's position over men.
No, that's taking things too far.  We're ALL infected with liberalism and modernism.  None of us is a walking saint and those of us living in the world absorb its errors whether we like it or not.

Until you brought up the idea of avoiding a marriage license, i'd never given it 2 seconds of thought.  So, by your definition, I was insisting on getting one, therefore i'm a male-feminist (which, sadly, do exist).  Also, your claims that any woman who wants one is self-serving, feminist, etc is going way overboard and you're hurting your argument and your integrity by being extreme.

This is a facinating debate, because it combines catholic morals and human psychology - much to learn from it!  But it's not about condemning women, or avoiding marriage, or protecting $.  It's about exposing the anti-catholic society we live in, about "alternative" measures that one can take to protect themselves and about REALIZING that some of our long-held views are wrong, or at least, not consistent with catholic ideals.  And these catholic ideals have not been preached/upheld for 50-60 years!  This is because our Faith was stolen from us.  But still, we have grace so we can re-learn and recognize such ideals if we have good will.  But for some of you, especially women who society is trying to destroy, you must especially be on guard and open to the possibility that you may not recognize the corruption that you have regrettably absorbed.