Author Topic: Do you believe in Zaat?  (Read 761 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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Do you believe in Zaat?
« on: August 23, 2009, 06:14:53 AM »
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  • Why do people behave differently?
    The usual answer is because they have free will can choose what to do.
    To Christians it has an other answer: it is because of the degree of grace they receive and also the degree of their cooperation. Many others consider the influence of culture and breeding.
    But how is it that small children act different from on another? One is sweet and pleasant, makes his parents happy and shows patience in illness, while the other is morose and cause of a constant sadness and exhaustion to all?
    The above statement can be applied even to suckling, toddlers and those under the age of reason. So you cannot attribute it to free will and choice, neither can you say the it was the grace, since even among the pagan kids you can see the good and the evil.
    hence the beliefe in "essence" comes forth.
    According to this beliefe, every human being has an essence that can be good, very good, bad or very bad. It is independent of choices and actions. The Persian synonymes for essence is "jense", or "johar" or "zaat". While the first word can mean gender sometimes, it can be used in such a contex:
    What is "jense" of this spoons?
    This one is silver the other is broze and that one is wooden  but sorry.. there is no one made of alluminium.
    Well... they all have the same function. One uses spoon for eating.
    The meaning of the word "jense" in this example is much near to the meaning one has in mind when he speaks about the different "essence" of different people. As you see in the example those spoons don't differ in their use for us (essence or "jense" is not about action) but they differ in what they are and how they are made.
    Zaat (essence) is still a very common beliefe among my people. Some of them believe that legitimacy or illegitimacy, foods and drinks used by parents, and being conceived/born in special manners/times of the year can, effect essence of their children.
    If catholics don't believe in essence, how do they explain good and bad behaviours in children under the age of 4?
    (it can be applied to siblings, even to twins, so breeding or envirnment is not an answer)

     





    Offline Telesphorus

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #1 on: August 23, 2009, 02:33:53 PM »
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  • Temperament is something that people are born with, but it can change over time.

    As a baby I was always smiling.  But I became morose as a teenager and an adult.

    A person's natural disposition can be changed by various factors.




    Offline SJB

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #2 on: August 25, 2009, 01:27:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    Why do people behave differently?
    The usual answer is because they have free will can choose what to do.
    To Christians it has an other answer: it is because of the degree of grace they receive and also the degree of their cooperation. Many others consider the influence of culture and breeding.
    But how is it that small children act different from on another? One is sweet and pleasant, makes his parents happy and shows patience in illness, while the other is morose and cause of a constant sadness and exhaustion to all?
    The above statement can be applied even to suckling, toddlers and those under the age of reason. So you cannot attribute it to free will and choice, neither can you say the it was the grace, since even among the pagan kids you can see the good and the evil.
    hence the beliefe in "essence" comes forth.
    According to this beliefe, every human being has an essence that can be good, very good, bad or very bad. It is independent of choices and actions. The Persian synonymes for essence is "jense", or "johar" or "zaat". While the first word can mean gender sometimes, it can be used in such a contex:
    What is "jense" of this spoons?
    This one is silver the other is broze and that one is wooden  but sorry.. there is no one made of alluminium.
    Well... they all have the same function. One uses spoon for eating.
    The meaning of the word "jense" in this example is much near to the meaning one has in mind when he speaks about the different "essence" of different people. As you see in the example those spoons don't differ in their use for us (essence or "jense" is not about action) but they differ in what they are and how they are made.
    Zaat (essence) is still a very common beliefe among my people. Some of them believe that legitimacy or illegitimacy, foods and drinks used by parents, and being conceived/born in special manners/times of the year can, effect essence of their children.
    If catholics don't believe in essence, how do they explain good and bad behaviours in children under the age of 4?
    (it can be applied to siblings, even to twins, so breeding or envirnment is not an answer)


    We are all individuals and we all suffer the effects of original sin. What are you reading?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #3 on: August 25, 2009, 02:23:17 PM »
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  •   Yes I know. But the fact that some people are better than others when you cannot attribute it to grace, free will, culture etc. only makes many people believe that some human beings have nobler/better essence than others.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #4 on: August 25, 2009, 02:25:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Yes I know. But the fact that some people are better than others when you cannot attribute it to grace, free will, culture etc. only makes many people believe that some human beings have nobler/better essence than others.


    Many graces are properly classified as actual grace, and being well-born is a kind of grace.


    Offline SJB

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 02:28:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     Yes I know. But the fact that some people are better than others when you cannot attribute it to grace, free will, culture etc. only makes many people believe that some human beings have nobler/better essence than others.


    God does not love all men equally. That is fundamental theology.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #6 on: August 25, 2009, 02:29:17 PM »
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  •   So catholics believe in people being born better or worse than others?

    Offline SJB

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 02:32:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     So catholics believe in people being born better or worse than others?


    No, all I said was God does not love all men equally.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Do you believe in Zaat?
    « Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 02:39:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
     So catholics believe in people being born better or worse than others?


    Well, people are born differently, and some differences are favorable to some, and unfavorable to others.

    Someone can be born with many blessings, but not be sanctified.

    Someone can be born with many disadvantages, but become holy

     

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