Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: divisions in Catholicism  (Read 140166 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline strangerthanfiction7

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 11
  • Reputation: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
divisions in Catholicism
« on: September 03, 2025, 05:41:42 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I always had a distaste for Vatican II changes even though I was a child back then. I guess my Catholic father not liking the changes may have influenced me, but I - on my own - disliked the Kumbaya stuff and how we never really learned much of anything important in catechism classes.

    Anyhow, then when I was much older... after having been outside the Church for a long time, doing stupid and sinful things.. I one day prayed the rosary and it changed my whole life. In time I began going to daily Mass, which I didn't even know existed until someone invited me! My family had been Sunday Catholics only.. 

    That was an awesome thing.. hearing God's Word daily. I was very enthused. But then I saw all these really bad, un-Catholic things going on in the Church.. a priest who ad-libbed during Mass, changing the words to the liturgy, and sometimes the words were gibberish in any case.. and I could go on and on.

    Then I found out about Lefebvre and began to understand why I disliked V2 so much... It was worse than I thought! And i hated the changes ten times more.

    I'm skipping through a lot of interesting twists and turns in my life.. but anyhow, today I lean toward a certain version of Sedevacantism, though I disagree w/ some of their leaders  on this and that issue.

    So anyway, I'm wondering how many people here have had a similar journey?

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #1 on: September 04, 2025, 05:14:43 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Since just after the changes of V2, my family avoided the entirety of the Novus Ordo, it's "mass," friends and relatives who went there, all NO literature, etc. because it was wrong, obviously wrong even though most went along with it. Deo Gratias for my parents who remained faithful and raised us in the true faith away from the NO.

    Although we always avoided the NO, I never really understood the reason why we avoided it, what made it evil, until I read The Great Sacrilege. Sounds like maybe you might like to read it.



    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline strangerthanfiction7

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 11
    • Reputation: +3/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #2 on: September 04, 2025, 10:39:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wow, your family was a little more into Jesus than mine... (not a high bar there).

    It's no wonder I was lost (separated from the Lord/sinful) for years and years when I was young... In other words, I wasn't quite raised properly. My parents did a lot of good things for their big family but they missed the boat on the most important thing: getting us to Heaven and the only way you can do that is to be  in the Catholic Church, which BTW, the true Church always taught this: no salvation o/side the Church. 

    The NO church (so called) does not teach anything remotely like that. They, as you may know, teach that all religions lead to God. Well, all religions are capable of giving you... shall we say: bits and pieces of information about God, but that's about it. They cannot lead one to Heaven as only Jesus and His Church does. For one thing, only the CC has the Real Presence of Christ. You can read books on Jesus, but as they say "There's nothing like BEING THERE" (being WITH someone you love).

    What were the main issues your family had w/ the NO church... Was there one thing that really got to them the most?


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #3 on: September 04, 2025, 12:22:22 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't have anything good to say about the NO church, and I think that it was by design that there was not any one thing about it.....I mainly remember only fragments from 60 years ago, but I remember the fag priests that invaded the Church in order  to replace the old priests. But for my parents, it was the new "mass" that sounded the initial warning bell, the seminaries emptying out, priests and nuns leaving their vocations, many to get married - often to each other. I could ramble on about the repercussions of the revolution within the Church, but mainly was the new "mass" that did it for them. Like many, they knew it was wrong, but there was much confusion and chaos going on within and without the Church back then, it's as if everything payed a part to get the faithful to just say "the hell with it all" and get them to either go along with the NO, or leave the Church completely, and many did just that.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline strangerthanfiction7

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 11
    • Reputation: +3/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #4 on: September 06, 2025, 12:30:55 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't have anything good to say about the NO church, and I think that it was by design that there was not any one thing about it.....I mainly remember only fragments from 60 years ago, but I remember the fag priests that invaded the Church in order  to replace the old priests. But for my parents, it was the new "mass" that sounded the initial warning bell, the seminaries emptying out, priests and nuns leaving their vocations, many to get married - often to each other. I could ramble on about the repercussions of the revolution within the Church, but mainly was the new "mass" that did it for them. Like many, they knew it was wrong, but there was much confusion and chaos going on within and without the Church back then, it's as if everything payed a part to get the faithful to just say "the hell with it all" and get them to either go along with the NO, or leave the Church completely, and many did just that.
    So you were outside of the Catholic Church or did you go to some other "branch" of it, like the SSPX? I didn't know anything about them until a few years ago and then only because I drove by a building that had a sign up saying: Traditional Mass. They had books on Lefebvre which were a big eye opener for me. I had always dislike V2 but didn't know much about it. I tell people about how the Church was infiltrated, but you know how it goes: all those who have something to lose by facing this indesputable fact will do whatever they have to, including egregious persecution, to try to shut you up. This one forum I used to go on started picking at me, not allowing me to post new threads. I'm surprised they didn't ban me. But I don't want to be there anyway because all I go  through is a bunch of arguments from Protestants and NO "catholics" arguing w/ me or disrespecting me because... the latter group (NO "catholics") don't want to face the truth of what happened to the Vatican. I fear for their souls because Jesus said that those who do not proclaim Him before men (His Church included, I'm sure) will be denied by the Father. 
    So yeh, I was wondering where your family went, exactly, when all those distasteful changes began to happen. 


    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #5 on: September 06, 2025, 12:57:23 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is kind of a long story about those days, so to keep it from TLDR, I'll just say I was only a child but I can tell you that by 1968 or so, which is by the time I was 8 years old, I learned my altar boy Latin responses and my brothers and I were serving the True Mass in people's  basements, living rooms and garages in the pre-SSPX days. Then within 3 or 4 years I think,  that grew into Masses being celebrated in banquet halls and school gymnasiums as more and more faithful found out that there was a priest here or there saying the true Mass. 

    See the attachment, although we weren't in any of the pictures, my family and I could have been in most of those pictures, I remember most of those people shown and served Mass for almost all of those priests - and many more non-SSPX priests who got expelled from their rectories for refusing to go along with the new mass and religion. 
           
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline strangerthanfiction7

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 11
    • Reputation: +3/-0
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #6 on: September 06, 2025, 01:04:51 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • There is kind of a long story about those days, so to keep it from TLDR, I'll just say I was only a child but I can tell you that by 1968 or so, which is by the time I was 8 years old, I learned my altar boy Latin responses and my brothers and I were serving the True Mass in people's  basements, living rooms and garages in the pre-SSPX days. Then within 3 or 4 years I think,  that grew into Masses being celebrated in banquet halls and school gymnasiums as more and more faithful found out that there was a priest here or there saying the true Mass.

    See the attachment, although we weren't in any of the pictures, my family and I could have been in most of those pictures, I remember most of those people shown and served Mass for almost all of those priests - and many more non-SSPX priests who got expelled from their rectories for refusing to go along with the new mass and religion.
         
    Thanks for the pictures.. made me nostalgic for the old days... :) 
    What is TLDR? 
    So are you still SSPX? And if so, did you ever consider being a sedevacantist? 

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2025, 10:01:11 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • TLDR = "Too Long didn't read" IOW, I did not want to make a long winded post.

    Yes, I still use SSPX priests for my Mass and sacraments, and for the last few years I've mainly been going to an Independent priest whenever he is in town.

    Sedeism is not an option with me, never has been because there has never been any reason to even go there, but mainly because of the dogma that states: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." 

    For me, there's no reason to risk my salvation, and in my experience with the idea, the main thing sedeism is good for you've already described with the title of this thread.
     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47069
    • Reputation: +27898/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2025, 03:27:17 PM »
  • Thanks!4
  • No Thanks!0
  • Sedeism is not an option with me, never has been because there has never been any reason to even go there, but mainly because of the dogma that states: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

    For me, there's no reason to risk my salvation, and in my experience with the idea, the main thing sedeism is good for you've already described with the title of this thread.
     

    Sigh ... going to a chapel where Prevost's picture is hanging in the vestibule does not qualify as being "subject to the Roman Pontiff".  Said "Roman Pontiff" told you to get your ass back to the Novus Ordo and that you cannot denounce the NOM and Vatican II.  But you blow all that off and claim subjection because you pay lip service.

    Doesn't get any more pathetic.  :facepalm:

    That's to say nothing of how it begs the question that he's the Pope, since being "subject to" an Anti-Pope also does not qualify as subjection to the Roman Pontiff.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #9 on: September 08, 2025, 05:00:03 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Catholics go by the teaching of St. Peter and the Apostles (see my sig), and I like to reference the example of St. Thomas More: "I am the pope's good subject, but God's first."  It's not the least bit complicated to Catholics.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47069
    • Reputation: +27898/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #10 on: September 08, 2025, 06:40:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Catholics go by the teaching of St. Peter and the Apostles (see my sig), and I like to reference the example of St. Thomas More: "I am the pope's good subject, but God's first."  It's not the least bit complicated to Catholics.

    Actually, you're right ... it's not that complicated.  You could even start by looking up the word "subject" in your pocket English dictionary.


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47069
    • Reputation: +27898/-5203
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #11 on: September 08, 2025, 06:44:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • HINT:  Just saying, "Yep, he's the Pope alright " doesn't remotely qualify as subjection.  On what matter do you actually submit to Prevost's authority and judgment?  In no way are you subject to him, as you ignore everything he teaches or commands.

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #12 on: September 08, 2025, 07:43:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Well you can be the guy who tells us R&R when we can obey him without offending God. Until then, I will remain the pope's good subject, but God's first. Very simple.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Everlast22

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 971
    • Reputation: +849/-226
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #13 on: September 08, 2025, 07:47:53 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • HINT:  Just saying, "Yep, he's the Pope alright " doesn't remotely qualify as subjection.  On what matter do you actually submit to Prevost's authority and judgment?  In no way are you subject to him, as you ignore everything he teaches or commands.
    Good point. For me, I was at the SSPX for about 2 years after 2019, with the "pope" living rent free in my head, and I said to myself:

    Um, I guess he's the pope and all, but I don't listen to him or follow him in any way. Am I being a hypocrite?  ..and.. How can a heretic be a pope? Welp, looks like I truly believe the Papal seat is vacant. 

    Contemplating day after day, doing research, (and one doesn't need to be a theologian) I came to the revelation God gave me and called to. This is my personal revelation. Unfortunately the Sedes are all divided more now than ever. It's more political now than anything.. 

    Offline Stubborn

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 14847
    • Reputation: +6147/-916
    • Gender: Male
    Re: divisions in Catholicism
    « Reply #14 on: September 08, 2025, 11:25:36 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • When I was a kid in this mess, a lot of the older priests who were clinging to the true faith and Mass that we came across used to say something as if it was a well known axiom or proverb or something among priests. It seemed normal for it to come up whenever they were discussing the crisis with my parents or other trads, they used to say: "He who eats the pope dies," or variations of it. I know Fr. Ward knew of it, heck, I think even the then Fr. Sanborn knew of it. 

    Anyone else ever heard of it?   








       

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse