Author Topic: Differences between men and women (Read 1404 times)

MariaCatherine · « **on:** May 23, 2013, 07:55:01 AM »

I think there's an inherent weakness in my own ability to reason that's due to my being female. I know that this is consistent with traditional ideas about the differences between men and women, so I'm not particularly worried about it, or ashamed of it. If I'm not mistaken, intellect is a power rather than a virtue, and it's quite overrated in our culture, as are other traditionally masculine powers. Also, I know that there are women who can reason much better than me, and men who can reason more poorly.

I find in myself what I believe to be a pretty good ability to distinguish between what's right and wrong, and a willingness to change my mind if I'm exposed to a more reasonable position on something, but I seem to need to be exposed to that more reasonable position first, rather than be able to come up with it on my own.

What do you think about this?

bowler · « **Reply #1 on:** May 23, 2013, 08:37:19 AM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

I think there's an inherent weakness in my own ability to reason that's due to my being female. I know that this is consistent with traditional ideas about the differences between men and women, so I'm not particularly worried about it, or ashamed of it. If I'm not mistaken, intellect is a power rather than a virtue, and it's quite overrated in our culture, as are other traditionally masculine powers. Also, I know that there are women who can reason much better than me, and men who can reason more poorly.

I find in myself what I believe to be a pretty good ability to distinguish between what's right and wrong, and a willingness to change my mind if I'm exposed to a more reasonable position on something, but I seem to need to be exposed to that more reasonable position first, rather than be able to come up with it on my own.

What do you think about this?

You sound reason-able, and well grounded. Let me add that:

"Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". I truly believe that this is the most important link if we want to do Gods will, and discern truth. All our good thoughts and ideas come from God. "Without me you can do nothing".

Today God is "our buddy", no one has fear of God, even the popes (by their deeds I judge them), this is why they display such monumentally un-Catholic actions.

ShepherdofSheep · « **Reply #2 on:** May 23, 2013, 08:46:10 AM »

I know there will likely be people who disagree with me on this.

There are differences between men and women, and it is more than just chromosomes and "plumbing". But what exactly is the essence of "being male" and "being female"?

To me, XY=male. XX=female. And I do know that chromosomal anomalies exist, but they are very rare. If you are male, you have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, and this is what "directs" (if you will) your body to produce androgens and take on the typical male physical characteristics. And hormones are very powerful things. They do affect your way of thinking and acting.

The same happens to the female, who possesses two X chromosomes, except she develops feminine physical characteristics and a more feminine way of thinking and acting.

Biologically, men are "programmed" to be protectors, territorial and strong. Women are designed to be nurturers.

However, since we are individuals, we exhibit varying degrees of these traits. And some of the these traits (in fact, I'd argue most, but with the understanding that it's to be exhibited in a masculine or feminine way) are sexless. It's just that both sexes tend to exhibit them more or less.

I have read that the female population tends to have average IQs, whereas men are all over the map. This means that there are fewer female geniuses than male, but also considerably more male idiots than female. So IQ balances out in the end.

I have been told that I have a "male brain". I don't know if this is due to my Aspergers or not. Basically, even though I am female, I tend to think (not act) more like a man. Emotions and such are not my strong suit- I prefer to be spoken to in a direct manner and I am strongly logical (not wise, mind you). I can't pick out emotions well in real life or a story, but I can read scientific articles with ease. I enjoy thinking about situations and how to solve the problems in novel ways in a logical fashion (for example, how to develop an antiviral treatment for sheep for the OPP virus). I don't care about fashion and never did. I really don't like chitchat, especially small talk, and I detest gossip. Quite frankly, other people's lives don't interest me except to help them when they need assistance.

And yet I am a very feminine woman and am happy to be female. I am a good nurturer and am typically the person called to help with livestock birthing difficulties, sick animals, and bottle babies like weak lambs. I do well with children and I love taking care of people, animals, and the land. I am sensitive by nature, just don't like the "mixed messages" that women often give. I see beauty all around me, even if in my mind I am actually dissecting it to its molecular elements. Men respect me and I treat them with respect. Nobody's ever accused me of being masculine.

So, I think you are right, but I also don't see anything wrong with women possessing strong reasoning ability. It's not contrary to their nature. And I like to see strong, stable men who care about the weak and defenseless.

JohnGrey · « **Reply #3 on:** May 23, 2013, 09:45:47 AM »

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

I know there will likely be people who disagree with me on this.

There are differences between men and women, and it is more than just chromosomes and "plumbing". But what exactly is the essence of "being male" and "being female"?

To me, XY=male. XX=female. And I do know that chromosomal anomalies exist, but they are very rare. If you are male, you have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, and this is what "directs" (if you will) your body to produce androgens and take on the typical male physical characteristics. And hormones are very powerful things. They do affect your way of thinking and acting.

The same happens to the female, who possesses two X chromosomes, except she develops feminine physical characteristics and a more feminine way of thinking and acting.

First, you need to approach questions of faculty by evaluating the questions from the standpoint of an integral human being. Within the realm of Catholic philosophy, the faculty of intellect is two-fold: there is natural intellect, whose seat is the brain and whose exercise is the evaluation of information gathered by the senses, and there is the supernatural intellect, whose seat is the soul and whose exercise is the spiritual discernment according to the nature of the person, which is defined both by their gender and by the degree of their innate efficacy.

A lot of people wrongly view the soul as being genderless, which is not to account of the soul any material speciation but rather to affirm, with the philosophy of the Church, that there exist differences between a male and female soul in their very nature. As the function of the supernatural intellect is spiritual discernment, it is then orthodox to say that the natural inclination of that intellect in man is in dominion, order and strength, and that in woman it is in submission, patience, compassion, and nurturing. It is not a weakness that either possesses traits that the other lacks, any more than there is a weakness that man cannot bear a child and woman cannot sire one.

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

Biologically, men are "programmed" to be protectors, territorial and strong. Women are designed to be nurturers.

However, since we are individuals, we exhibit varying degrees of these traits. And some of the these traits (in fact, I'd argue most, but with the understanding that it's to be exhibited in a masculine or feminine way) are sexless. It's just that both sexes tend to exhibit them more or less.

I have read that the female population tends to have average IQs, whereas men are all over the map. This means that there are fewer female geniuses than male, but also considerably more male idiots than female. So IQ balances out in the end.

Here it seems you rely too completely on natural intellect, in that you seem to ascribe the discharge of human nature, both male and female, to something physical. Certainly there is a physical element to such behavior, but the physical constitution of the body is informed absolutely by the soul itself. Man, being a rational creature, is the author of his action according to his faculties. To assign the cause of his action purely to biology, which is to say the exercise of instinctive behavior, is to both permit the abdication of reason and to call into question moral culpability. The beast of the field mates indiscriminately, kills and maims its fellow creatures, and there are those species which even destroy their young, yet there is no culpability for these actions, which in a human carry the weight of mortal sin. That is because, as written in Genesis, we were made in the image of the Triune God and carry the faculty of supernatural reason.

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

I have been told that I have a "male brain". I don't know if this is due to my Aspergers or not. Basically, even though I am female, I tend to think (not act) more like a man. Emotions and such are not my strong suit- I prefer to be spoken to in a direct manner and I am strongly logical (not wise, mind you). I can't pick out emotions well in real life or a story, but I can read scientific articles with ease.

If I may ask, have you ever had your AQ evaluated, and if so how did you score?

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

I enjoy thinking about situations and how to solve the problems in novel ways in a logical fashion (for example, how to develop an antiviral treatment for sheep for the OPP virus). I don't care about fashion and never did. I really don't like chitchat, especially small talk, and I detest gossip. Quite frankly, other people's lives don't interest me except to help them when they need assistance.

Whatever the case, you do not have a male brain. When people say that to you, that are in essence saying that you do not think and act like a "modern woman." This is purely to your credit, and the credit of your gender. There is nothing masculine, or feminine, in desiring simple honesty and clarity of communication, or eschewing chit-chat, gossip, etc. All this does is show a maturity, character, and strength of purpose which any good Catholic man should find attractive. There is little in the world that a man should treasure more than a mate that is sober and plainspoken; if the man is the same, there is a marriage that will be long, healthy and fruitful. Likewise, that you give no thought to fashion, provided your chosen wardrobe is modest and appropriate to your gender, is yet another merit. Modern fashion exists only to demand attention and inflame the sense. Nor is problem-solving inappropriate to women. How can a woman manage a household if she cannot exercise logic?

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

And yet I am a very feminine woman and am happy to be female. I am a good nurturer and am typically the person called to help with livestock birthing difficulties, sick animals, and bottle babies like weak lambs. I do well with children and I love taking care of people, animals, and the land. I am sensitive by nature, just don't like the "mixed messages" that women often give. I see beauty all around me, even if in my mind I am actually dissecting it to its molecular elements. Men respect me and I treat them with respect. Nobody's ever accused me of being masculine.

Here you prove my point for me. Though your natural intellect, which is the lesser of two, is analytical, the outward expression of that intellect is informed by character of your supernatural intellect, which is compassion and nuturing.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #4 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:06:55 AM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

What do you think about this?

I think it's good when a man is a "man", and a woman is a "woman".

The differences are ok, God put them there. What I don't like is the gender inversion.

I don't like masculine women, or feminine men. I am not necessarily talking about sodomy.

I refer to men who are too sensitive, emotion-driven, and not very rational.

I also refer to women who like/need to dominate/control others.

Feminine men can be big betrayers, not worthy of trust, and masculine women can be very cruel when they are bosses or have some power over others (Hillary, Angela, Margaret, etc...).

When men are men, and women are women, men are intellect oriented, and women have a bigger heart.

My 2 Cents.

Maizar · « **Reply #5 on:** May 23, 2013, 10:42:31 AM »

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep

I know there will likely be people who disagree with me on this.

There are differences between men and women, and it is more than just chromosomes and "plumbing". But what exactly is the essence of "being male" and "being female"?

To me, XY=male. XX=female. And I do know that chromosomal anomalies exist, but they are very rare. If you are male, you have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, and this is what "directs" (if you will) your body to produce androgens and take on the typical male physical characteristics. And hormones are very powerful things. They do affect your way of thinking and acting.

The same happens to the female, who possesses two X chromosomes, except she develops feminine physical characteristics and a more feminine way of thinking and acting.

Genes are only the beginning. The differences are due to hormones produced during development. So it's possible to change many of these attributes through environmental factors like exposure to hormones, major stresses in early life and so on. Men and women are changing, not just due to culture, but due to the chemicals we are bathed in.

Quote

I don't like masculine women, or feminine men. I am not necessarily talking about sodomy.

I refer to men who are too sensitive, emotion-driven, and not very rational.

I also refer to women who like/need to dominate/control others.

Feminine men can be big betrayers, not worthy of trust, and masculine women can be very cruel when they are bosses or have some power over others (Hillary, Angela, Margaret, etc...).

When men are men, and women are women, men are intellect oriented, and women have a bigger heart.

The fact is those people exist, always have and always will (and probably it's getting worse), yet Catholicism is for them also.

MariaCatherine is right. Women's brains are meant to have different priorities to men's. Their moral reasoning tends to be more pragmatic, whereas men's moral reasoning is more absolute and therefore inflexible. So the practical solutions to a moral problem can differ (and both be fairly correct), even though the same principles are applied. Women are more attuned to their subconscious (intuition) and this can be a great advantage in practical, immediate problems, but is no great help when it comes to making a logical argument, which is what is often required to convince a man. Men on the other hand deliberate and weigh up factors in their conscious mind, which has advantages in collaboration and planning. All this is demonstrable now with modern brain imaging methods. The subconscious (intuition) uses many of the same parts of the brain as the conscious, so it has the much of the same intellectual capacity to solve problems, but it can sometimes overcome certain distractions. That's why intuition can be so good.

A man is needs to know when to trust his wife's intuition over his own reasoning, and a woman needs to know when to trust her husband's reasoning over her intuition. Being aware of the difference in the first place is a good start.

ShepherdofSheep · « **Reply #6 on:** May 23, 2013, 11:07:11 AM »

Quote from: JohnGrey

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep
I know there will likely be people who disagree with me on this.

There are differences between men and women, and it is more than just chromosomes and "plumbing". But what exactly is the essence of "being male" and "being female"?

To me, XY=male. XX=female. And I do know that chromosomal anomalies exist, but they are very rare. If you are male, you have an X chromosome and a Y chromosome, and this is what "directs" (if you will) your body to produce androgens and take on the typical male physical characteristics. And hormones are very powerful things. They do affect your way of thinking and acting.

The same happens to the female, who possesses two X chromosomes, except she develops feminine physical characteristics and a more feminine way of thinking and acting.

First, you need to approach questions of faculty by evaluating the questions from the standpoint of an integral human being. Within the realm of Catholic philosophy, the faculty of intellect is two-fold: there is natural intellect, whose seat is the brain and whose exercise is the evaluation of information gathered by the senses, and there is the supernatural intellect, whose seat is the soul and whose exercise is the spiritual discernment according to the nature of the person, which is defined both by their gender and by the degree of their innate efficacy.

A lot of people wrongly view the soul as being genderless, which is not to account of the soul any material speciation but rather to affirm, with the philosophy of the Church, that there exist differences between a male and female soul in their very nature. As the function of the supernatural intellect is spiritual discernment, it is then orthodox to say that the natural inclination of that intellect in man is in dominion, order and strength, and that in woman it is in submission, patience, compassion, and nurturing. It is not a weakness that either possesses traits that the other lacks, any more than there is a weakness that man cannot bear a child and woman cannot sire one.

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep
Biologically, men are "programmed" to be protectors, territorial and strong. Women are designed to be nurturers.

However, since we are individuals, we exhibit varying degrees of these traits. And some of the these traits (in fact, I'd argue most, but with the understanding that it's to be exhibited in a masculine or feminine way) are sexless. It's just that both sexes tend to exhibit them more or less.

I have read that the female population tends to have average IQs, whereas men are all over the map. This means that there are fewer female geniuses than male, but also considerably more male idiots than female. So IQ balances out in the end.

Here it seems you rely too completely on natural intellect, in that you seem to ascribe the discharge of human nature, both male and female, to something physical. Certainly there is a physical element to such behavior, but the physical constitution of the body is informed absolutely by the soul itself. Man, being a rational creature, is the author of his action according to his faculties. To assign the cause of his action purely to biology, which is to say the exercise of instinctive behavior, is to both permit the abdication of reason and to call into question moral culpability. The beast of the field mates indiscriminately, kills and maims its fellow creatures, and there are those species which even destroy their young, yet there is no culpability for these actions, which in a human carry the weight of mortal sin. That is because, as written in Genesis, we were made in the image of the Triune God and carry the faculty of supernatural reason.

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep
I have been told that I have a "male brain". I don't know if this is due to my Aspergers or not. Basically, even though I am female, I tend to think (not act) more like a man. Emotions and such are not my strong suit- I prefer to be spoken to in a direct manner and I am strongly logical (not wise, mind you). I can't pick out emotions well in real life or a story, but I can read scientific articles with ease.

If I may ask, have you ever had your AQ evaluated, and if so how did you score?

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep
I enjoy thinking about situations and how to solve the problems in novel ways in a logical fashion (for example, how to develop an antiviral treatment for sheep for the OPP virus). I don't care about fashion and never did. I really don't like chitchat, especially small talk, and I detest gossip. Quite frankly, other people's lives don't interest me except to help them when they need assistance.

Whatever the case, you do not have a male brain. When people say that to you, that are in essence saying that you do not think and act like a "modern woman." This is purely to your credit, and the credit of your gender. There is nothing masculine, or feminine, in desiring simple honesty and clarity of communication, or eschewing chit-chat, gossip, etc. All this does is show a maturity, character, and strength of purpose which any good Catholic man should find attractive. There is little in the world that a man should treasure more than a mate that is sober and plainspoken; if the man is the same, there is a marriage that will be long, healthy and fruitful. Likewise, that you give no thought to fashion, provided your chosen wardrobe is modest and appropriate to your gender, is yet another merit. Modern fashion exists only to demand attention and inflame the sense. Nor is problem-solving inappropriate to women. How can a woman manage a household if she cannot exercise logic?

Quote from: ShepherdofSheep
And yet I am a very feminine woman and am happy to be female. I am a good nurturer and am typically the person called to help with livestock birthing difficulties, sick animals, and bottle babies like weak lambs. I do well with children and I love taking care of people, animals, and the land. I am sensitive by nature, just don't like the "mixed messages" that women often give. I see beauty all around me, even if in my mind I am actually dissecting it to its molecular elements. Men respect me and I treat them with respect. Nobody's ever accused me of being masculine.

Here you prove my point for me. Though your natural intellect, which is the lesser of two, is analytical, the outward expression of that intellect is informed by character of your supernatural intellect, which is compassion and nurturing.

Thank you for your comments. I certainly agree with you and I was focusing on natural intellect, and neglected to give the supernatural intellect its proper due. My understanding of biology is perhaps better than my ability to explain the supernatural (as I said, I may be book-smart, but I am not wise, though I aspire to grow in understanding and wisdom).

My IQ was measured at 134 a year ago. I don't put much faith in such tests, and scores can change over time. I do not intend to take it again. I was 17 at the time, and did not want to take the test, but did so because my parents requested it. I have always performed extremely well on standardized exams like the SAT, but I attribute that to my homeschooling education more than anything else.

I always appreciate the eloquence of your posts, JohnGrey.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #7 on:** May 23, 2013, 11:14:53 AM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

I think there's an inherent weakness in my own ability to reason that's due to my being female. I know that this is consistent with traditional ideas about the differences between men and women, so I'm not particularly worried about it, or ashamed of it. If I'm not mistaken, intellect is a power rather than a virtue, and it's quite overrated in our culture, as are other traditionally masculine powers. Also, I know that there are women who can reason much better than me, and men who can reason more poorly.

I find in myself what I believe to be a pretty good ability to distinguish between what's right and wrong, and a willingness to change my mind if I'm exposed to a more reasonable position on something, but I seem to need to be exposed to that more reasonable position first, rather than be able to come up with it on my own.

What do you think about this?

One thing I think about it is that it is very well stated. It is good to see people articulate things so clearly, and so accurately. I'm supposing your assessment of yourself is accurate.

The one thing I will disagree with

Quote

I think there's an inherent weakness in my own ability to reason

The statement could be objectively accurate but you seem to reason quite well, as good or better than the average man.

Here are my unschooled thoughts on the topic.

Men and women are quite different. Men in general tend to be stronger. Women tend to be better nurturers and more sympathetic to those in need or who have problems.

Men, generally, seem more logical and have the ability to grasp the big picture more readily. Women are more emotional and sometimes their gut reaction to things does more harm than good.

The greatest non-divine human being that ever existed, by far, was a woman and we all know who that is.

Women, in the grand scheme of things, in my opinion, have the potential to make the world much better than men can. They do this by having and raising godly offspring while men play their games, taking two steps forward and two steps back ad infinitem in the work place.

Women can get pregnant, and nourish their children from their own body. Men can't. Women can love their children, spending much more time with them at home than the father and husband, and thereby give our future society the ability to love.

There was a time when I was growing up that when a man spoke improperly in front of a woman the woman would object or at least be embarrassed. Now the women lead the charge and this saddens me greatly.

In my van pool a man will inevitably say something revolving around the topic the world is obsessed with, and the woman, no matter how young or old, married or not, will jump right in and make it worse.

The devil wants to destroy the great woman, the spouse of Christ which is the Church and we see the results. He also wanted to destroy society by attacking the family and destroy the family by destroying its weaker spouse, the women and thereby dragging the rest of humanity down with her.

If women would insist upon being women by acting and dressing like women the world would be a far better place. There would be more jobs available for men who would not have to deal with overly emotional employees and bosses, nor the constant near occasion of sin that is ever placed before them. Children would not be raised by the state and indoctrinated by their anti-Christian propaganda. There would not by body-pierced tattooed heathens prowling about the world in their slovenly and somewhat intimidating manner.

But men have had a hand in these problems and a big hand at that. Men have abandoned women and children and abused their wives, and counted on the wives dependance on them to be able to control them with impunity.

Men have been cowardly and been all to willing to let the women wear the pants in the family and women have been all to willing to take over reducing the man to an over-sized child.

If men would act like men perhaps the women would start acting like women again. Or is it the other way around?

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #8 on:** May 23, 2013, 04:15:07 PM »

Just curious: do any of the ladies here also notice that they seem to be able to recognize sound reasoning when they see it or hear it, but have trouble actually engaging in arguments?

jen51 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 23, 2013, 04:38:27 PM »

Quote from: MariaCatherine

Just curious: do any of the ladies here also notice that they seem to be able to recognize sound reasoning when they see it or hear it, but have trouble actually engaging in arguments?

Yes! Yes yes yes. Therefore I just don't. And on the very rare occassion that I do, I feel like a complete fool.

MariaCatherine · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2013, 08:38:25 AM »

Quote from: jen51

Quote from: MariaCatherine
Just curious: do any of the ladies here also notice that they seem to be able to recognize sound reasoning when they see it or hear it, but have trouble actually engaging in arguments?

Yes! Yes yes yes. Therefore I just don't. And on the very rare occassion that I do, I feel like a complete fool.

I sometimes get too emotional when I see something unreasonable being presented as reasonable, and it prevents me from being as charitable as I know I should be. And conversely, when I see something reasonable I'm sometimes so overjoyed I'm speechless. St. Teresa of Avila would not approve of me, I don't think. She admonished her nuns to always be 'manly'. Maybe that word loses something in the translation, especially to this day and age when women are taught to be manly in the wrong ways.

Tiffany · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2013, 09:07:10 AM »

I haven't found it to be the case that women have a bigger heart or are more compassionate. I know many of both genders who are, but it's mostly with older or foreign women and men of any age that seem to understand a situation that is not their own. Men seem to be much more sympathetic to realities of poverty. I don't mean all, just what I've noticed.

Something I see with some women is with any crisis is they love to get information, but then do nothing. They act like getting the information is really vital, but their entire goal is just to get the information. It's weird.

SOS I agree with JG, it's a compliment, it's a sign of maturity that you are not catty and mistreating others based on how you feel.

LOT Young women also hold a great deal of power in who they choose to have children with. Our entire society would change overnight if women would choose good men. The 17/Cosmo mag values is a huge huge force in our cultures destruction. I don't know if there are enough good men, and the Church does not allow polygamy, so maybe there will be a lot of old maids for a generation, I don't know.