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Author Topic: Detraction - When are We Guilty?  (Read 2305 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2021, 03:23:12 PM »
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  • I would disagree with how things went down.  If one were to make a judgment based on the original post (accusation of pride), then it might be a "public" revelation about THAT post.  And, even so, one would need to interpret that same post the same way to make the same judgment (in fact, we have seen that a number of posters in the original thread that did NOT judge it the same way).

    I would say that when someone refers to LT's POSTING HISTORY here, then that is at least detraction despite the fact that all of his posting history is technically "public".  Why?  Because there are many members and lurkers here, many new posters in fact, that may not be aware of "LT's posting history".  Heck, I've been here a long time and I am not aware of all of his posts.  So, in that sense, it was a revelation of a supposed hidden fault.

    If we're all honest with ourselves, we know that none of us are blameless and none of our posting histories are spotless.  In fact, I suspect that each and every one of us are.....prideful at least at times.  

    The whole matter is....ironic.
    Fascinating that my post which tried to look at things objectively got thumbs down...why?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #16 on: July 05, 2021, 03:23:27 PM »
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  • No, the issue started with Bonaventure's comments.

    Uhm, no, you're conflating the issues.  Please see the citation Last Trad made in his OP.  That was in response to Matto's post and had nothing to do with Bonaventure.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #17 on: July 05, 2021, 03:24:01 PM »
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  • Case in point: I am a lurker and didn't think there was any reason to think he was being Pharasaical (I never saw and refuse to read what everyone is referring too) but now it's in my mind that there might be! I'm still not going to look up what people are referring to but it just shows that detraction is so easy.
    Yup.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #18 on: July 05, 2021, 03:26:07 PM »
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  • Uhm, no, you're conflating the issues.  Please see the citation Last Trad made in his OP.  That was in response to Matto's post and had nothing to do with Bonaventure.
    Since he was referencing the original thread, I gave my opinion of what happened in the whole thread.  Bonaventure was the person who LT charged with detraction.  There would be no issue with Matto's comments if Bonaventure didn't make his.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #19 on: July 05, 2021, 03:29:00 PM »
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  • You add to it the fact that there's a separation from the person's reputation due to the fake persona of "Last Tradhican" on the interwebs.  So the real person is not taking the hit to any kind of reputation.

    Finally, I would agree that the sentiments regularly posted by Last Trad are in fact blameworthy, and a public rebuke may be in order.  I think a lot of service was done in bringing this type of Pharisaical attitude to light lest other Traditional Catholics slide into the mentality.  If he's publicly promoting these types of attitudes, then he can rightfully and justly be rebuked for them.

    I've been called a lot worse here on CI, and the fact that Last Trad is being such a baby about it that he has to start an entire thread defending himself speaks to the veracity of the charges.  Last Trad, take this as an invitation to examine your conscience and then move along.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #20 on: July 05, 2021, 03:30:44 PM »
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  • Since he was referencing the original thread, I gave my opinion of what happened in the whole thread.  Bonaventure was the person who LT charged with detraction.  There would be no issue with Matto's comments if Bonaventure didn't make his.

    OK, but this entire thread was started with a quotation of my comment.  Matto agreed with my interpretation of his intent.  Agree or disagree with his definition, his point was merely to clarify terms here and not to attack Last Trad.  Last Trad took it personally, that it was an attack, simply for disagreeing with his definition of detraction.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #21 on: July 05, 2021, 03:32:14 PM »
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  • And I wouldn't have cared except for the fact that Last Trad went after Matto about it as if it were a personal attack, "Et tu, Brute?"

    You can protest that we're arguing technicalities, but it was YOU who misconstrued Matto's clarification as a personal attack, and that's when I decided to chime in, since you had it wrong there.
    Matto is a man, why do you feel the need to get in the middle of the discussion and still do? Now you just posted something having to do with detraction on the other thread. This is really getting weirder by the minute.

    Mato himself accused me of the sin of pride directly, and you seemed to be hinting at the same thing by your saying that it is common knowledge.

    Quote
    I don't know if you are guilty of pride because I cannot read your soul. One time a few months ago or maybe a year ago when you were talking about the things you often talk about it seemed to me that you were being prideful so I warned you that I thought your posts seemed prideful. My point today was that Bonaventure was accusing you of something public, whereas I always thought detraction was revealing a secret sin.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #22 on: July 05, 2021, 03:33:16 PM »
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  • OK, but this entire thread was started with a quotation of my comment.  Matto agreed with my interpretation of his intent.  Agree or disagree with his definition, his point was merely to clarify terms here and not to attack Last Trad.  Last Trad took it personally, that it was an attack, simply for disagreeing with his definition of detraction.
    I agree with that.  Perhaps my comments belonged in the original thread (actually all of these comments could have stayed in the original thread).  


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #23 on: July 05, 2021, 03:37:57 PM »
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  • I agree with that.  Perhaps my comments belonged in the original thread (actually all of these comments could have stayed in the original thread).  

    And they probably should have stayed there.  Again, this is all making a mountain out of a molehill, to start a whole thread about it.  That speaks to hurt pride.  Just let it go.  I've been called a lot worse here, and in some cases they were right, and in others they misinterpreted what I said.

    When someone criticizes me or insults me, either what they said was true or it was false (or somewhere in between).  To the extent that it was true, I accept the criticism and am grateful for their pointing it out.  If it's false, then I ignore the comment as not worth my time.  Attempting to put this into the same category as revealing to the world that someone is a serial adulterer is just ridiculous.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #24 on: July 05, 2021, 03:39:54 PM »
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  • This is really getting weirder by the minute.

    You made this weird by making a big stink about it.  Just let it go.  You turned it into a brand new separate thread dedicated to the issue.

    People rip each other here all the time.  That doesn't make it right, but you really have to let it just bounce off you at some point.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #25 on: July 05, 2021, 03:47:46 PM »
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  • You add to it the fact that there's a separation from the person's reputation due to the fake persona of "Last Tradhican" on the interwebs.  So the real person is not taking the hit to any kind of reputation.

    Finally, I would agree that the sentiments regularly posted by Last Trad are in fact blameworthy, and a public rebuke may be in order.  I think a lot of service was done in bringing this type of Pharisaical attitude to light lest other Traditional Catholics slide into the mentality.  If he's publicly promoting these types of attitudes, then he can rightfully and justly be rebuked for them.

    I've been called a lot worse here on CI, and the fact that Last Trad is being such a baby about it that he has to start an entire thread defending himself speaks to the veracity of the charges.  Last Trad, take this as an invitation to examine your conscience and then move along.
    Well, there it is, while I was writing my last post, Ladislaus  finally admitted his motive.  He was jumping on the opportunity to join the club of detractors or revilers or  calumniators, or ad-hominem attackers (take a pick), well, at least he finally honestly stated why he decided to disrupt a thread for a dust mite on an elephant.

    We learn something every day.

    P.S.- not a one example of this sin of pride has been exhibited by anyone, not a one.


    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #26 on: July 05, 2021, 05:40:27 PM »
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  • No, the issue started with Bonaventure's comments.

    Nice try, but that's false.  Detraction!  (See how easy that is to do?)

    The issue started in this post when ByzCat3000 rightfully called out Last Trad as coming off as "pharisaic." There are presently 7 upvotes to ByCat3000's comment, so obviously it's not only ByzCatt3000's (nor my own) opinion on the matter.

     One would think, if one were a pious, God-fearing individual, that if one were accused of being "pharisaic," which others apparently agreed with as evinced by the number of upvotes, that said person would pause and reflect on the accusation, concerned that it may contain veracity.  Not Last Trad, though.  Instead, he doubles down, accusing others of detraction (which, if you think about it, if we are to accept Last Trad's definition of that word, is itself detraction), going so far as to start a new whiney thread about it.

     :facepalm:

    After thinking about it, I'm going to have to amend the one-and-only CathInfo Beatitude (added language in bold): "Blessed are us few Trad, for we, and only we, are entitled to the Kingdom of Heaven."


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #27 on: July 05, 2021, 05:46:27 PM »
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  • Nice try, but that's false.  Detraction!  (See how easy that is to do?)

    The issue started in this post when ByzCat3000 rightfully called out Last Trad as coming off as "pharisaic." There are presently 7 upvotes to ByCat3000's comment, so obviously it's not only ByzCatt3000's (nor my own) opinion on the matter.

     One would think, if one were a pious, God-fearing individual, that if one were accused of being "pharisaic," which others apparently agreed with as evinced by the number of upvotes, that said person would pause and reflect on the accusation, concerned that it may contain veracity.  Not Last Trad, though.  Instead, he doubles down, accusing others of detraction (which, if you think about it, if we are to accept Last Trad's definition of that word, is itself detraction), going so far as to start a new whiney thread about it.

     :facepalm:

    After thinking about it, I'm going to have to amend the one-and-only CathInfo Beatitude (added language in bold): "Blessed are us few Trad, for we, and only we, are entitled to the Kingdom of Heaven."
    Well, Bonaventure, I know which thread it started in, but it was YOUR comments that he called detraction.  THAT was my point.

    Why do you post here at Cathinfo?  You seem to not like it here.  


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #28 on: July 05, 2021, 05:51:01 PM »
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  • Without getting involved in this little spat, I'll answer the succinct question asked in the OP title:
    "Detraction - When are we guilty?"

    We are guilty of the sin of Detraction -- a sin of the tongue against Charity -- when we

    1. Reveal a hidden/private sin of another living person,
    2. The sin in question being TRUE, (or else it's slander or libel)
    3. Without sufficient cause (e.g., the public good)


    Note this doesn't apply to criticizing another's public posts -- or any public actions. Anything in "the public domain" can be discussed. This includes anything the public has a right to know about, or needs to know about. The background, positions, and beliefs of Politicians for example. Also, the Church is a public organization, and a Priest is a public man. So anything touching on a priest's formation, ordination, or "resume" (curriculum vitae) is certainly public domain. Detraction doesn't apply to anyone who isn't "valid matter" as a target for the virtue of Charity, such as a Corporation or an Organization.

    No individual is beyond criticism, especially on a discussion board. Most of all anyone famous or pseudo-famous, including anyone holding anything remotely resembling a leadership position. Forum owners and moderators, for example.
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    Offline Bonaventure

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    Re: Detraction - When are We Guilty?
    « Reply #29 on: July 05, 2021, 06:42:22 PM »
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  • Why do you post here at Cathinfo?  You seem to not like it here.  

    Not true at all.  I just don't have much patience for the sanctimonious and self-righteous, of which, CathInfo seems to have an abundance of from time to time.