Author Topic: Dear single dudes - time to man up  (Read 2668 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Dear single dudes - time to man up
« on: June 20, 2014, 12:43:27 PM »
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  • I know this isn't talking about Trad men in particular -- but it's interesting to know what's going on out there among the non-Catholics. They're having problems with male maturity too.

    http://themattwalshblog.com/2014/06/19/dear-single-men-time-man-figure/#OlVvITFwkOOYg4jl.99


    Dear single men,
    I was having a conversation with a friend recently. He’s about my age, he’s single, and he is, I can attest, an all around good dude. I hadn’t seen him in a while, so I asked about the status of his love life. He told me that he’s currently ‘hanging out’ with someone.
    “What do you mean?” I asked.
    “Well, we’ve hung out a few times. She’s great.”
    “OK, so are you guys going out? Is she your girlfriend?”
    “No. I don’t think so. But we’re hanging out. We’re talking.”
    “Well, of course you’re speaking to each other. Do you talk to her on the phone? Do you see her a lot?”
    “No, we mostly text. I’ve seen her a few times since we started hanging out.”
    “So you only recently met her?”
    “No, I’ve known her for a while, but we’ve only hung out a few times.”
    “You never hung out with her before?”
    “I did. But, I mean, since we started… Since we, you know, whatever.”
    I left that conversation confused, because confusion is the name of the game these days. Everyone is confused. Being single means being confused. Everyone is so confused that they don’t even know what words to use when describing their relationships. USA Today did a survey of singles a while back, and they discovered something that’s been apparent for years: nobody has any idea what’s going on in their own love lives. Close to 70 percent don’t know if they’re on a date when they go on a date.
    I guess that’s because most of you are too busy “hanging out.”
    What is that, guys? How old are we?
    It went from courting, to dating, to hanging out. Sometimes even hanging out reeks of too much commitment, in which case ‘talking’ can be used. And if talking sounds too serious, maybe we’ll start hearing ‘vicinitizing.’ That’s a word I just made up, and it means that you and your female friend are often in the same vicinity, but it doesn’t get all intense by insinuating that you’re actually in that general location together on purpose.
    When did men become so afraid to make a commitment, to take the lead, to say what they want, to make long term plans, to set goals, to pursue, to talk about the future?
    We are devolving into primates, losing the ability to even discuss our own behavior using words and sentences. The average single American man is now relegated to grunts and shrugs and ‘whatevers’ and ‘you knows’ when pressed to have a conversation about his dating habits. Or his vicinity habits. Or his whatever habits, because whatever, you know?
    ‘Hanging out’ is how we describe what we do with our buddies. Is that what you want? Do you want that beautiful woman to be your buddy? Or would you ideally prefer it if you could distinguish between your relationship with her and your relationship with your friend Steve?
    I know you might tell me you can decipher between the two based on who you’re hooking up with, but I think that’s a problem. And, speaking of which, let’s chill with the ‘hooking up’ thing.
    That phrase makes you sound like a teenager. Grown men relying on the vague, timid code words of high school freshmen. It’s embarrassing.
    Time to end the nonsense, gentlemen. It’s time to be grown ups. It’s time to be men. I know this term really offends a lot of people nowadays, but truly, fellas, let’s man up.
    Trust me, I’m not innocent. I’m married now, but I was once a part of this hazy, undefined dating-but-not-dating scene. I never liked it, because nobody does. I never found any happiness in it, because nobody does. But I was a part of the problem. I was a wimpy manchild, afraid of meaningful commitments, afraid of being alone, afraid of rejection, afraid of the future, afraid of being betrayed, afraid of being loved. Just afraid, really. Afraid of everything.
    Then, one day, I met Alissa. She was looking for a grown man, and I was sick of playing games. We were both exhausted. So do you know what we did very early in our relationship?
    We defined our terms.
    We made our goals clear.
    We were open with each other.
    We spoke about the future.
    We used words like ‘marriage.’
    We were clear and convicted and purpose driven. I had ambitions for our relationship. Ambitions. I, like, had an idea about what I was doing and why I was doing it. Can you believe it? I was in it for a reason. I wanted it to become something.
    See, I’d been floating like aimless debris through an ocean of cloudy intentions and half-heartedness, until I grew up and realized that romance isn’t a game, and most women aren’t frivolous bimbos. They want men who know what they want and aren’t afraid to verbalize it. And if they don’t want that, then they aren’t worth your energy. Get out now. If she still wants to pretend she’s in tenth grade, let her live that fantasy with someone else.
    With Alissa, things were pretty clear from the get-go. We had a relationship. A real, live relationship. A few months into it, I proposed. Some people wait longer, which is fine. We’re all on our own schedule. But I promise you, despite popular sentiments, it doesn’t take a decade and a half to figure things out.
    I had several failed dating ‘situations’ before I got married. Some collapsed within months, others took considerably longer. But all of them were eventually destroyed by problems that were clearly evident in the first, I don’t know, five minutes or so.
    And, yes, I get it. Our disastrous modern approach to dating (or whatever) isn’t all the fault of men. But there’s no point in parceling out the blame. All you can do, single dudes, is get your own selves together. Take the lead.
    Here’s some brutal honesty for you: if you ‘aren’t ready for something serious,’ then you need to go get yourself ready and leave these ladies alone until you do. You can’t go out and have sex (I mean, ‘hook up,’ as the middle schoolers at the lunch table might call it) and then claim that you ‘aren’t ready for something serious.’ It’s too late, friend. Sex is something serious.
    Can you imagine if an airline pilot pulled that kind of stunt?
    “Attention passengers. This is your captain speaking. I just want to tell you that, like, I don’t want things to get weird or whatever, but I’m not really into being a captain right now. I mean, yeah, I chose to take a plane full of souls up 32 thousand feet into the air at a cruising speed of 600 miles per hour, but I don’t want you think that this is, like, official, you know? I’ve got your lives in my hands, but I don’t want this to get serious. In fact, actually, look, I’m just gonna bail now. I’ve got my parachute. You don’t but that’s your problem. I got what I wanted out of this. So, uh, yeah. Bye. Enjoy your fiery demise!”
    Only, for this analogy to work, the captain would send that in a text message, because he lacks even the fortitude to verbalize it.

    If you’re a grown man, get serious. What are you waiting for? You’re an adult now. It’s go time. Recess is over. If you still aren’t ready to be serious about love, that’s OK, but just stay out of it entirely in the meantime.
    No matter what anyone does, or says, or thinks; no matter what we tell ourselves; no matter what society insists, romantic relationships are always serious business. Call it what you want — hanging out, talking, dating — there’s a woman’s heart involved in it. That means you have a responsibility, alright? You have a duty as a human being, as an adult, as a man.
    She’s making herself vulnerable to you. You need to honor that, protect it. And if you aren’t looking for anything but cheap sex and another trophy of sexual conquest to hang on the wall in your studio apartment, then you need to protect her from yourself, because you’ll be bringing nothing but disappointment and chaos into her life.
    Listen, there’s a lot of joy and love you’re missing out on when you spend years tumbling like a ball of weeds from one opaque hang out session to another. I know this from experience.
    If you’re hanging out with a woman and you feel like you might be into her, tell her. Call her on the phone. Take her out on a date. Say the words: “I’d like to take you out.” No ambiguity. Plan the date yourself. Women want you to be decisive. Lose the whole “so waddaya wanna do tonight?” schtick. Take charge. Pick her up at 7. Pay for the meal. Have a conversation with her. Go mini golfing or something. Go somewhere. Open the door for her. Put your phone away. Open up to her. Share your ideas, your dreams, your fears. Get to know her. Pursue her. Pursue her. Invest yourself in the process, as scary and unsure as it may seem. Take a risk, gentlemen. Go out on a limb for once. Be purposeful. Be desirable. Be a man.
    You wouldn’t go into a job interview and tell the interviewer that you aren’t sure if you want the job, and you don’t want to even talk about the job because it freaks you out and gives you a tummy ache, would you? So don’t do that to the women you’re dating, or hanging out with, or talking to, or whatever.
    In the old days, they called it courting. It was a lot like dating, but with more of a point and less confusion. Maybe we should get back to that strategy.
    Enough with hanging out and hooking up. We’re grown men. They’re grown women. They deserve more, and so do you.
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    Offline ggreg

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #1 on: June 20, 2014, 03:23:06 PM »
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  • For non-Catholic men the smartest strategy is to not get married.

    Unless one can be reasonably certain their wife is not going to divorce them, why take the long-term financial and emotional risk?  There is very little upside for non-Catholic men.

    As a general observation it is women that most need and want the security of a home, provision for their children and someone to provide for them.  Non-Catholic men are far less driven towards this life.  I know divorced men in the UK, (where alimony payments are not quite as onerous) who appear to prefer seeing their children at weekends and being able to hand them back and go to the pub and get a good night's sleep.  They buddy up with other divorced guys for friendship, drive a Harley or Classic car at the weekend and get a girlfriend who is 10-15 years younger than their ex-wife.  For a selfish guy there is not very much they feel they are missing out on.

    I've talked to them and they don't particular regret losing out on family life or the chance to be a full time father because (A)  They never had a vision, dream or a realistic possibility of having a healthy and well functioning family unit anyway, given that their wife was just a non-Catholic woman with their own selfish and shallow goals and (B) There is almost zero stigma attached to being a responsible divorced parent today.  Many non-Catholic couples, married or otherwise, particularly the middle classes, split up and continue to see their ex-husband on a regular basis.  Some are even friends with the ex and invite them around for get-togethers and go on holiday with new partners.

    I find this weird myself, but they seem to manage to forgive and move on.  Perhaps because they never really had a vision or dream of having a lifetime family unit and always figured on simply making it up as they went along.


    Offline Frances

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #2 on: June 20, 2014, 04:17:03 PM »
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  •  :dancing-banana:
    Did some single man get a little testy to have given Matthew a down thumb?  "If the shoe fits....."
    These are the sort of men good Catholic single women despise.  Believe it or not, at age 54, I occasionally run into them from my own age group.  Sad to say, the latest such character was encountered at a trad chapel when traveling last summer.  He was 51, never married, long-term unemployed despite being able-bodied and having a B.S. in education.  He lived with his parents whose vehicles he used and who provided a roof over his head, "three hots and a cot" in exchange for mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, heavy cleaning and home repair.  His mother was onto me like a vulture.  Did I want to "go hang out" at a pub?  Mom said, "Go ask your father for his wallet."  I hastily declined the invitation.  Why would this pathetic excuse for a man want to "hang out" with me since he already had it made?  I told him, "I don't accept dates with men I don't know.  "Oh, but it's not date!  We could just " hang out," talk about "whatever."." You know..."
    No mystery why he wasn't married!  Both he and his parents need to wise up!
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    Offline Graham

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #3 on: June 20, 2014, 08:23:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:
    Did some single man get a little testy to have given Matthew a down thumb?  "If the shoe fits....."


    "Man up and commit" is, in this day and age, the slogan of the deeply committed male feminist. It's very typical of them to berate men for shying from commitment, while making no mention of feminism and divorce statistics, and as if the sexual revolution and casual sex are things men are forcing on women. Matt Walsh is a profoundly irritating feminist windbag, the type who seeks the approval of a female audience by loudly berating men, and who shouldn't be taken seriously by Catholics or quoted on this site.




    Offline Matthew

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #4 on: June 20, 2014, 09:21:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham
    Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:
    Did some single man get a little testy to have given Matthew a down thumb?  "If the shoe fits....."


    Matt Walsh is a profoundly irritating feminist windbag, the type who seeks the approval of a female audience by loudly berating men, and who shouldn't be taken seriously by Catholics or quoted on this site.


    That very well might be. I never claimed one way or the other. I just thought this article would make for an interesting discussion.

    I never heard of Matt Walsh before this article. It's a good thing I posted it so I could learn that fact.

    Catch my drift?

    P.S. I'll be the judge of what should be "quoted on this site". Who do you think you are, telling the moderator what to do?

    Note to everyone else: You can safely ignore any of Graham's commands, especially the ones he gave here. He's not a moderator, co-moderator, or even influential with the moderator. He's a member like everyone else. Zero power.
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    Offline Graham

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #5 on: June 20, 2014, 09:40:33 PM »
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  • Sorry for that, Matthew.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #6 on: June 20, 2014, 10:09:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    I never heard of Matt Walsh before this article. It's a good thing I posted it so I could learn that fact.

    Catch my drift?

    P.S. I'll be the judge of what should be "quoted on this site". Who do you think you are, telling the moderator what to do?


    Matt Walsh has actually had several posts which have made it to this site. Sane or crazy, he makes for interesting discussion.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum Ergo

    Offline wallflower

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #7 on: June 20, 2014, 11:25:21 PM »
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  • I haven't read all of his stuff but I don't have the impression that he only berates men. Maybe I should take a closer look. I only see what friends post to FB.

    He is not Catholic so he's not on point with everything but compared to what's out there these days, he's quite good. I really liked his post on motherhood not being THE hardest job, as if fatherhood didn't exist. To be honest I wished he had taken it one step further since I do believe fatherhood is more difficult because of the spiritual and leadership responsibility for the whole family, mother included; he stopped just short with a "they're equally difficult, let's not compete" kind of moral to the post; but that's where I write it off to him missing a piece or two from not being Catholic. Maybe he'll get there one day. But until then you do have to read with Catholic eyes and filter or correct where he goes off track.

    Anyway, I guess that's off topic a bit. I don't have much to say about men not manning up.


    Offline ggreg

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2014, 01:04:30 AM »
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  • The whole problem has its upside though.

    Men who do "man up" can raise their currency and make a better pairing than they could have if a large number of men were not immature.

    I helped a local 18 year old get a job in financial software last year.  He has taken to it like a duck to water, is saving money, got a promotion and a pay rise and is listening to good advice and working to a plan.  At 22 when his peers are leaving university in debt he will have $60-70k in savings and be earning around 80k per year before tax.  3 bedroom house in our town, 1 hour from London, costs around 350k and a two bed apartment around 250k so he could afford a mortgage on either.

    He's handsome too, so will have no shortage of women wanting to marry him.  Obviously he needs to choose the woman with great care, but that's within his control if he allows himself to be sober about it.

    Offline Nickolas

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #9 on: June 21, 2014, 10:43:08 AM »
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  • There are huge problems attempting a discussion of articles such as this primarily because it is based on a "straw man" friend who may or may not exist but is described by the blogger to prove his preconceived notion. Watch out for conversations you have with so called friends who write blogs.  You just might be fodder for his or her next wiser than thou blog posting.  

    Mr. Walsh says his friend is confused, singles are confused and, yes, he too is confused and he is apparently married.  So why would anyone want to relate to or spend any time reading the musings of a confused writer who tries to convince others that his confusion is wiser than someone else.

    Here Mr. Walsh begins with a so called conversation with a "friend". First we are told that the friends is an "all around good dude" then dear old Matt begins an interrogation about the "love life" of his friend.  The whole uncomfortable conversation is based or hindered on language used by the friend and Matt's digging to make something out of nothing----perhaps as fodder for his next blog, who knows and who cares.  

    Young people today use expressions du jour, no differently than when all of us were in your young years.  Here you have one married man, dear old Matt, and his single friend and Matt seems dissatisfied with his friends aloof approach to dating at this point in his life.  So what and again who cares? There are many man babies out there as there are girly feminists too.  Crazy world we live in but all the result of fallen man so what do we expect?  Was it any better in the 50's, 60's, or any time before today?

    Then Matt goes on the internet and finds a survey from USA Today about singles and texting  and well, who cares again.  I too found the survey in 10 seconds.  Firstly, reference to a survey such as this presumes the survey itself is credible and reflects the true beliefs of those covered.  Surveyors are notorious for influencing the outcome of a survey by how the question is asked to the dumb person on the street.  

    I agree with Graham's initial posting about blogs such as this and the persons who write them.  The blogger is not someone who I would read or cause others to do so if for no other reason than to protect my soul and the souls of the friends and loved ones around me.  I say this because this is the second time this week I have seen this particular blog article referenced by Traditional Catholics as if it provides any sort of valued thought.  Yes it does admonish men to be men, but also confuses dating with friendship and seems to infer that if the friend was acting like a "man" while having sex with his "girlfriend", all would be ok.  Subtle meanings and lessons at work here.  






    Offline ClarkSmith

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #10 on: June 21, 2014, 07:01:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:
    Did some single man get a little testy to have given Matthew a down thumb?  "If the shoe fits....."
    These are the sort of men good Catholic single women despise.  Believe it or not, at age 54, I occasionally run into them from my own age group.  Sad to say, the latest such character was encountered at a trad chapel when traveling last summer.  He was 51, never married, long-term unemployed despite being able-bodied and having a B.S. in education.  He lived with his parents whose vehicles he used and who provided a roof over his head, "three hots and a cot" in exchange for mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, heavy cleaning and home repair.  His mother was onto me like a vulture.  Did I want to "go hang out" at a pub?  Mom said, "Go ask your father for his wallet."  I hastily declined the invitation.  Why would this pathetic excuse for a man want to "hang out" with me since he already had it made?  I told him, "I don't accept dates with men I don't know.  "Oh, but it's not date!  We could just " hang out," talk about "whatever."." You know..."
    No mystery why he wasn't married!  Both he and his parents need to wise up!


    The guy you describe doesn't sound immature. He sounds lonely! He might even have a social anxiety disorder or social phobia.

    A little  friendship would probably do him some good. It might actually help break him out  of his comfort zone.


    Offline Tiffany

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #11 on: June 21, 2014, 10:10:49 PM »
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  • During my mid-twenties word from men my age was that the Christian women didn't want to marry, they ones at church socials serious about spiritual/moral things were as he called "protestant nuns."

    Offline Tiffany

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #12 on: June 21, 2014, 10:15:35 PM »
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  • As far as men not being serious, I  do think it's one reason when you see mixed marriages between Muslim men and Christian women often the girls are from very conservative environments/the type to be at church when the doors open/volunteer with Sunday School/CCD because these men appear far more conservative and wanting a traditional family than most of the men she meets.

    Offline Frances

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #13 on: June 21, 2014, 10:23:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: ClarkSmith
    Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:
    Did some single man get a little testy to have given Matthew a down thumb?  "If the shoe fits....."
    These are the sort of men good Catholic single women despise.  Believe it or not, at age 54, I occasionally run into them from my own age group.  Sad to say, the latest such character was encountered at a trad chapel when traveling last summer.  He was 51, never married, long-term unemployed despite being able-bodied and having a B.S. in education.  He lived with his parents whose vehicles he used and who provided a roof over his head, "three hots and a cot" in exchange for mowing the lawn, shoveling snow, heavy cleaning and home repair.  His mother was onto me like a vulture.  Did I want to "go hang out" at a pub?  Mom said, "Go ask your father for his wallet."  I hastily declined the invitation.  Why would this pathetic excuse for a man want to "hang out" with me since he already had it made?  I told him, "I don't accept dates with men I don't know.  "Oh, but it's not date!  We could just " hang out," talk about "whatever."." You know..."
    No mystery why he wasn't married!  Both he and his parents need to wise up!


    The guy you describe doesn't sound immature. He sounds lonely! He might even have a social anxiety disorder or social phobia.

    A little  friendship would probably do him some good. It might actually help break him out  of his comfort zone.


     :dancing-banana:
    Good point, Clark, but I still do not go off alone with strange men.  It is not fitting for a Catholic woman, nor, in this day and age, is it prudent.  It was his mother who was doing the pushing, not the man himself.  If she had invited me out to dinner with the family, I may well have accepted.  It is true he may have been suffering from a mental disorder and was lonely,  but I still will not go out with a man with whom I am acquaintanted for less than ten minutes.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Nadir

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    Dear single dudes - time to man up
    « Reply #14 on: June 22, 2014, 01:43:01 AM »
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  • Nickolas asked
    Quote
    Was it any better in the 50's, 60's, or any time before today?


    Yes!

    Quote
    Yes it does admonish men to be men, but also confuses dating with friendship and seems to infer that if the friend was acting like a "man" while having sex with his "girlfriend", all would be ok.


    I read from beginning to end, That's not the impression I got.

    Although it's not a blog I'd go for, (I can't say I like his style.) it made some  good points.

     

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