Author Topic: dealing with student loans  (Read 1569 times)

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Offline tradlover

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dealing with student loans
« on: July 09, 2013, 10:05:19 PM »
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  • I believe that student loans are keeping men from starting a family and lowering the amount of children they would have because of their money woes.

      From a Traditional Catholic standpoint, how would you deal with student loans?

      I always wonder why society burdens students with this.

    Offline Frances

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, 10:31:18 PM »
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  •  :pop:Think "population reduction!"
    If you wait to marry until both have paid off their loans, the man is apt to be no longer pure and the woman, if, by some miracle has kept her innocence, is past the prime child-bearing years.  The number of children is substantially reduced.
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


    Offline Iuvenalis

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, 11:06:35 PM »
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  • It's a problem of going to college in the first place.

    Every middle class and working class parent tells their kids, "college, college, college!"

    And the skilled trades go unfilled. Trade school is often an excellent ROI (return on investment). Welders, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, diesel mechanics, etc make solid livings here, and there arent enough of them.

    Offline Lighthouse

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, 11:11:59 PM »
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  • Well, for one thing "society" is not burdening students with anything.  They burden themselves. By society do you mean your kids should have their hands on my wallet?

    It also started with colleges going year after year with higher than average increases. Then the "government" (actually you and I) started subsidizing the out-of-control costs.

    Don't sign a contract for something you cannot see any way of repaying.  Lock yourself in the basement with every good book you can get your hands on.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #4 on: July 10, 2013, 04:46:15 AM »
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  • Quote
    Well, for one thing "society" is not burdening students with anything.


    That is a dumb comment.  Society demands college education, and punishes those who don't go along with it.


    Offline Tiffany

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #5 on: July 10, 2013, 05:26:46 AM »
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  • Apart from the military, the working poor class & up society does except young adults to have parental support. I had trouble renting an apartment being under 21 without a co-signer, even with great credit and a job.


    Offline Tiffany

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    « Reply #6 on: July 10, 2013, 05:28:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: Iuvenalis
    It's a problem of going to college in the first place.

    Every middle class and working class parent tells their kids, "college, college, college!"

    And the skilled trades go unfilled. Trade school is often an excellent ROI (return on investment). Welders, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, diesel mechanics, etc make solid livings here, and there arent enough of them.


    Most trade schools are part of colleges now and the price is beyond what an unskilled person could pay for after living expenses.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, 10:16:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: Iuvenalis
    It's a problem of going to college in the first place.

    Every middle class and working class parent tells their kids, "college, college, college!"

    And the skilled trades go unfilled. Trade school is often an excellent ROI (return on investment). Welders, plumbers, electricians, pipefitters, diesel mechanics, etc make solid livings here, and there arent enough of them.


    Most trade schools are part of colleges now

    Nope

    Quote from: Tiffany

    and the price is beyond what an unskilled person could pay for after living expenses.

    I'm saying *in lieu of college, so the same sacrifices (i.e. living with parents or working part-time while attending less than fulltime) would apply. However, you'd actually have a chance at a job.

    Just like college, some are affordable, some are not. One needs to shop around and choose college (and major) with debt and cost in mind.

    Trade school is/would be no different.


    Offline Lighthouse

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 01:32:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote
    Well, for one thing "society" is not burdening students with anything.


    That is a dumb comment.  Society demands college education, and punishes those who don't go along with it.


    Yes, we are all aware that we must go along with what society demands. What other golden calves do you bow to?  We certainly don't want to get "punished" for not going along.

    Offline Lighthouse

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    « Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 01:38:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Apart from the military, the working poor class & up society does except young adults to have parental support. I had trouble renting an apartment being under 21 without a co-signer, even with great credit and a job.



    I gather you meant "expect", but that's one of the problems with student loans. They take the signature of 18 year-olds with no track record, no job, and no evidence of character, but don't require mom and dad to co-sign.

    Then when the whole scheme breaks down, which  is about to happen, the solid citizen pays for the failure.  Ouch.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 01:47:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lighthouse
    Yes, we are all aware that we must go along with what society demands.


    Is that what I said?  You're very dull-witted.

    Quote
    What other golden calves do you bow to?  We certainly don't want to get "punished" for not going along.


    So people aren't punished for not having college degrees?

    They do not lose many opportunities for employment?

    Is that what you're pretending?

    I'm the last one who wants people to go to college.

    Don't pretend society doesn't burden those who don't jump through the hoop.



    Offline Telesphorus

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 01:53:44 PM »
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  • It's really tiresome when libertards and associated types pretend that borrowing money is essentially optional.

    If such loans were not offered and not taken out the economy would grind to a halt.

    Usurious lending is a sin, much more than borrowing.

    Many Catholics seem to care more about the rights of usurious creditors than the injustice of system.


    Offline Cato

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 02:13:06 PM »
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  • If you are choking on student loan debt, or any kind of debt, it's your own fault.  Society didn't force you to go to college and take useless courses and earn a useless degree and earn little or no money.  Too many people have exaggerated perceptions of self worth:  they see themselves as Harvard Dons, while they struggle at the local junior college.

    If you go to college on loans, you had better make sure you major in something marketable:  business, law, or medicine.  Don't borrow 100k to get a degree in Art History or Sociology.  It's just part of being a responsible person.  Both my wife and myself took out loans to go to college and we both had no problem paying off our loans.

    Say you poor as a church mouse and borrow 100k.  After graduation you earn 50k.  You can live very comfortably on 40k and pay 10k a year to pay off your loans.  Now if you are a little more disciplined, you can pay it off faster.  If you have half a brain, you'll go into a lucrative field and pay off your debt even faster.

    Stop blaming other people for your own bad choices.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    dealing with student loans
    « Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 02:17:26 PM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    It's really tiresome when libertards and associated types pretend that borrowing money is essentially optional.

    If such loans were not offered and not taken out the economy would grind to a halt.

    Usurious lending is a sin, much more than borrowing.

    Many Catholics seem to care more about the rights of usurious creditors than the injustice of system.



    Indeed, he sounds like one of those neocaths that fancies himself a 'conservative' which is essentially a shill for globalism, destruction of skilled labor, unfettered immigration and all that "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" rhetoric.

    Probably a zionist too.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    « Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 02:42:02 PM »
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  • Cato,

    It is a good point, but your point is different than Lighthouse's.

    I too kept debt to a minimum.

    I actually didnt take the full amount of loan I was authorized to take (most students take the whole loan and arent aware they can take *less* than what is offered). I averaged 35 hours a week while going to school fulltime. I graduated ontime and took classes in the summer.

    My peers partied, took summers off, took ski trips, bought snowboards and recreational equipment, went to Hawaii and trips to springbreak destinations where theyd have sex with as many drunken whores as they could, and they all graduated with triple the debt I had.

    I paid mine off in 10 years after graduating and it wasnt difficult at all. It could have been faster but I felt I was doing just fine with reducing my debt without taking it to extremes and eating catfood.

    100K sounds *incredible* to me. In fact, 50K would have been a lot to me back then.

    When I hear people taking such large debts for schools I never heard of it baffles me. When I graduated i worked with a guy who paid 900/mo for his student loans and his wife's were worse. They went to some private college in the midwest I had never heard of.

    Baffling. Why so much debt and when youre interviewing for a job or someone is reading your resume and they think "where's that?" That's gotta hurt.

    And yes, pick a marketable major (unless youre independently wealthy).

    I was wise enough to make such choices, and I was 18. So age and naivete is no excuse. And my parents were not college educated so I had to figure that out on my own. But debt seemed like a bad idea. Im lucky I didnt saddle myself even to this day from decisions I made 20 years ago.

    Your advice is sound Cato, but it is another thing entirely to say "Dont go to college" or "too bad". Youre saying be responsible, I'm saying trade school, Lighthouse is saying "take it or leave it" and as Telesphorus points out, no post high school education isnt exactly an option.


    Im not a tradesman but most of my family are in various trades, and theyre often in better financial shape than the college educated ones (like an uncle I have who has a ton of debt negating his high income), but they (my family) tell me they went through trade unions through apprenticeships which do not 'cost'. They seem like theyd be hard to get into, or youd have to know someone, but they all assure me it was about persistence and that there are far more guys who will squander the apprenticeship than finish it like they did so keep applying and be persistent.

    One is a welder, one millwright, one a crane operator/welder, my dad a diesel and turbine engineer, a carpenter, 2 electricians, a plumber and one is a general contractor. My grandfather was a stone mason, my maternal grandfather was a mechanic (who later opened a parts store). So I have a lot of data on this.

    They all say they got in without knowing anyone, just by being relentless, which I inhereited because I got into my field with relentlessness.

    My wife says I'm kinda smart but ten times more relentless than smart. I've had an employer tell me about 15 years ago, after I had been working for him for nearly two years, that he primarily hired me so I would leave him alone.

    My dad and uncles say they did the same thing getting apprenticeships.


     

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