Author Topic: dealing with rape (Read 7694 times)

chichi is my cat · « **on:** July 20, 2011, 08:37:14 AM »

What is the proper thing to do in a Catholic sense if a woman was raped?

Many modern day people say abortion for the product of the rape.

What should a true Catholic do if she were raped?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #1 on:** July 20, 2011, 08:58:53 AM »

Anyone who is dialed in where even the natural law is concerned would have the baby, either keeping it or finding a good family to adopt it.

As for the perpetrator of the crime, if he is not exposed and brought to justice (if it is at all possible), he will probably (certainly?) do the same thing to other women. As hard as it must be to do so (and I am certain it is VERY hard), speaking out is an heroic act of charity toward both the rapist and all women he has raped or will rape in the future. Silence guarantees one thing: that nothing will stop the rapist from similarly harming others in the future.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #2 on:** July 20, 2011, 11:00:16 AM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Anyone who is dialed in where even the natural law is concerned would have the baby, either keeping it or finding a good family to adopt it.

Exactly. Heroic doesn't even begin to describe the courage of those who refused to abort the result of a rape and either kept the baby or had the baby adopted.

I don't even know the word for it-is it agape?

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** July 20, 2011, 11:24:53 AM »

I am not sure, my dear Izzy. :scratchchin:

Tis true, though...doing the right thing in such a situation is VERY HARD, especially when those around you probably want you to do the wrong thing and are pressuring you while you are still shell-shocked and swamped with strong emotions of all kinds.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** July 20, 2011, 12:13:34 PM »

I think the victim would have to focus on how the baby didn't do anything wrong -- and that it IS a baby.

And while she might not want to live with a constant reminder of the rape, she can nevertheless give the baby up for adoption. Some childless couple can have a child they ardently desire -- so SOME good can come from such a horrible crime.

No use adding outrage to outrage by destroying an innocent baby.

Matthew

the smart sheep · « **Reply #5 on:** July 20, 2011, 03:35:27 PM »

This is a complicated situation. If there is not a pregnancy as a result, then yes tell everyone and report it.

However, if there is a pregnancy, do NOT say a single word. I know that sounds crazy. But it is a crazy world we live in. You do not know him, you never got his name. This is very important for the child's sake.

The courts will force visitation rights for the father or they may even give him full custody ( for every child that is given to the noncustodial parent the courts get $450,000). Its all about the money for the courts.

If you can have this baby by midwife do so. Hospitals are getting very strict about information and they work with the courts. If you have to have the baby in the hospital be sure you do not put the fathers name on the birth certificate. You do not know him, it was a one night stand in another state or better yet visiting in another country, you never got his name.

DO NOT TELL THE HOSPITAL YOU WERE RAPED!!!!

Adoption, again if you do not say anything about the rape, then what the agency must do is put an add about your sɛҳuąƖ encounter in the newspaper in the city of the encounter ( US only, so I would say the encounter happened in another country). The father has a week to claim the baby. If he does not then the adoption can go on.

I know it was a hard thing to go through, but hush hush for the baby's sake. Surround yourself with loving family whom you can trust.

Please do not let this information worry you. File it away right now, and focus on staying healthy for this baby and mums the word. There are excellent midwives and doctors in the TLM. There is an excellent attorney for adoptions in the TLM in St. Mary. Kansas. I have seen him do two very difficult adoptions with great success. One was a rape victim situation.

Many prayers from the sheep

s2srea · « **Reply #6 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:07:55 PM »

Wow... Sheep-

I don't know about that. Rape is a crime both in the eyes of God and the state. Not reporting it, while maybe not 'wrong', is not the best choice. If you are going to keep the child, then you have already agreed to live with the memory of the violent crime you were the victim of; if the father of the child wanted custody, then it is something you would have to deal with.

If you weren't going to keep the child anyways and give up for adoption, in that case I dont' know that the father could have visitation rights anyways, unless the adopting parents agreed to this at the time of the adoption (though I may be wrong).

Regardless, not reporting the crime is the worst possible thing to do. Though not perfect, there is a place for the state and for criminal justice in this world.

Sigismund · « **Reply #7 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:16:16 PM »

Where did you get the impression that courts would force visitation on a victim of rape? I have never heard of such a thing.

Actually, fathers who have committed no crimes at all often cannot get visitation if they are not married to the mother.

the smart sheep · « **Reply #8 on:** July 20, 2011, 04:53:36 PM »

Good questions and lets see if I can answer them.

First, the mother would have to prove it was rape, which is extremely hard to do. It becomes a he said she said.

If she reports the father as the rapist, the father will be granted visitation rights because the state comes after him for child support (most likely because the mother needed social assistance).

Murderers and pedophiles get visitation and custody all of the time no matter what medical reports show or their criminal history.

Courts aren't really what you think they are.- justice, hard on crime and such. Courts are a corporation like wal mart, sears, etc. The difference is that the courts bully you using weapons and forcing you under duress to accept a bill of exchange( traffic ticket, child support etc). They do this simply to make money not to protect you.

What I am saying here is that if the rape does not produce a pregnancy than yes report it. But for the child's safety, do not. Who would want to hand over an infant to a rapist every weekend?

The courts are only interested in making money, like sears and wal-mart. If sears could make $450,000 in one day with one docuмent you bet they would hand a child over to who ever. That is exactly what the courts do.

All fathers can get visitation rights. Go to any court house family department section (usually on second floor) and look at the worksheets to fill out (probably online). Its quite simple. Any father not getting visitation rights is probably doing so that he does not have to pay child support and the mother is not on any assistance.

Even if the mother did not put him on the birth certificate. He can have a paternity test performed on the child.

And because the mother said she was a rape victim the courts are more likely to think she is "mentally ill" and give the father custody.

The agency must report the rape and allow the father to claim the child. Why would a rape victim want this?

What I am saying to a rape victim is don't go there, don't invite the rapist into your child's life. God will provide for you and your child.

sheep

s2srea · « **Reply #9 on:** July 20, 2011, 06:36:54 PM »

Quote from: the smart sheep

Good questions and lets see if I can answer them.

First, the mother would have to prove it was rape, which is extremely hard to do. It becomes a he said she said.

However, if reported immediately, samples can be taken as evidence to be used for prosecution, in addition to all circuмstantial evidence.

Quote

If she reports the father as the rapist, the father will be granted visitation rights because the state comes after him for child support (most likely because the mother needed social assistance).

Firstly, this is assuming the mother will keep the child under her custody. Secondly, I do not believe the father, if convicted rapist, has any right to the child, though I may be wrong. Lastly, its not only poor women who are raped.

Quote

Murderers and pedophiles get visitation and custody all of the time no matter what medical reports show or their criminal history.

Non sequitur my friend.

Quote

What I am saying here is that if the rape does not produce a pregnancy than yes report it. But for the child's safety, do not. Who would want to hand over an infant to a rapist every weekend?

The courts are only interested in making money, like sears and wal-mart. If sears could make $450,000 in one day with one docuмent you bet they would hand a child over to who ever. That is exactly what the courts do.

All fathers can get visitation rights. Go to any court house family department section (usually on second floor) and look at the worksheets to fill out (probably online). Its quite simple. Any father not getting visitation rights is probably doing so that he does not have to pay child support and the mother is not on any assistance.

I believe this is only true in cases of normal (ie non rape/ incest/ etc) children.

Quote

Even if the mother did not put him on the birth certificate. He can have a paternity test performed on the child.

And because the mother said she was a rape victim the courts are more likely to think she is "mentally ill" and give the father custody.

Sheep- where did you get this stuff??

Quote

The agency must report the rape and allow the father to claim the child. Why would a rape victim want this?

What I am saying to a rape victim is don't go there, don't invite the rapist into your child's life. God will provide for you and your child.

I think someone stated the other day the difference between relying on God and having prudence (I'm sorry I forget the terms).

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #10 on:** July 20, 2011, 07:34:39 PM »

Being a person directly related to a happening such as this, sheep is 100% on the mark.

Understand this:

If you talk, the courts will still see that the DONOR has "rights." If you open your mouth about it, that sicko will get "RIGHTS" and he can fight you every step of the way.

As for "seeing that rapist in the face of the child," from the knowledge I have, that is just a COP OUT. This "constant reminder" argument is a LIE.

For a true Catholic, life is something that has IMMEASURABLE WORTH. A human soul is involved, that still needs salvation.

Sure, adoption is a legitimate option, and sometimes even the best one, but it's a very DIFFICULT thing to do. Just as I wouldn't want to be pressured to keep a child, contrariwise, I wouldn't want someone trying to force me to put a child up for adoption.

Take it from me, I KNOW about it. If you go to the HELP thread written by the teenage girl that came here, you can read what I had to go through, and I was not even raped.

Adoption is not something that every woman has the capability of doing. There is already a tremendous loss that NO ONE that hasn't been through it can even possibly comprehend even closely to what it's really like, but then, on top of that, to add the aftershocks of what happens to someone emotionally following a rape, it's incomprehensible emotional pain and anguish, and if it was violent enough, even physically excruciating to bear.

In a nutshell, here's from someone who has a pretty darn good idea of what to do.

If a child is not involved, REPORT IT IMMEDIATELY.

If a child IS involved, please, for the sake of whatever decision you intend for placement of that child, whatever it is, DO NOT SAY ANYTHING. If you do, you could already put a little soul sent from God in jeopardy.

If our justice system actually looked out for the victims, you wouldn't have outrageous outcomes like the recent debacle in Florida, where a woman got away with KILLING HER CHILD, but is now SCOTT FREE to go party and be a floozie while her daughter's blood still screams from the ground for vengeance.

God takes care of those that do His Holy Will. Sometimes, it may seem cut-and-dried to those that haven't been through it, but it's really not that simple. No matter how a child was conceived, their souls are of more worth than the entire universe, and everything in it, combined. Being a true Catholic, this should already be very obvious.

A mother has an obligation to that soul. SHE is ultimately responsible for what happens to them. If she does the right thing, she can lead that soul to God, without the interference of the "busy bodies" that would rather have your child in "protective custody" with some other family because of a screwed up notion that something is too mentally wrong with you to handle a child. Remember, the courts don't consider SOULS, they consider BODIES.

parentsfortruth · « **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2011, 07:37:04 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I think someone stated the other day the difference between relying on God and having prudence (I'm sorry I forget the terms).

Did you mean me when I pointed out that there is a difference between being adroit and sagacious, and being prudent?

the smart sheep · « **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2011, 07:40:17 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: the smart sheep
Good questions and lets see if I can answer them.

First, the mother would have to prove it was rape, which is extremely hard to do. It becomes a he said she said.

However, if reported immediately, samples can be taken as evidence to be used for prosecution, in addition to all circuмstantial evidence.

Quote
If she reports the father as the rapist, the father will be granted visitation rights because the state comes after him for child support (most likely because the mother needed social assistance).

Firstly, this is assuming the mother will keep the child under her custody. Secondly, I do not believe the father, if convicted rapist, has any right to the child, though I may be wrong. Lastly, its not only poor women who are raped.

Even with circuмstantial evidence he could always say she wanted it. She even wanted rough sex. That's what I mean by he said she said. Perpetrators are listened to more than the victim. But proving or not proving is not what is really happening in courts.

Here is what's happening:
The Judge is looking at one thing and one thing only the viability of the bond that will be traded on the stock market If the rapist has served time before the trading value goes down. Now, if he has a very good trading value than he may get 1-2 yrs in jail. He will come back out when the bond is no longer viable and rape again. The courts are not concerned about the rape because ALL crime is commercial 72.11 CFR.

Now lets assume the mother will keep the child (which is what I meant). And lets keep the rich/ poor concept out of it. The father will get visitation rights even after 2 years in jail (because he did not go to jail for rape, he went for his bond). My question to you is how would you personally deal with putting your 2 year old in the car of your rapist every other weekend and every wed?

sheep

the smart sheep · « **Reply #13 on:** July 20, 2011, 07:50:32 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote
Murderers and pedophiles get visitation and custody all of the time no matter what medical reports show or their criminal history.

Non sequitur my friend.

I do not understand the meaning of non sequitur. But I think I can still answer you. All crime is commercial so the the perpetrators are not going to jail for the actual crime. They are going to jail for the state to make money off their bonds. So they can have visitation and full custody.

Quote
What I am saying here is that if the rape does not produce a pregnancy than yes report it. But for the child's safety, do not. Who would want to hand over an infant to a rapist every weekend?

The courts are only interested in making money, like sears and wal-mart. If sears could make $450,000 in one day with one docuмent you bet they would hand a child over to who ever. That is exactly what the courts do.

All fathers can get visitation rights. Go to any court house family department section (usually on second floor) and look at the worksheets to fill out (probably online). Its quite simple. Any father not getting visitation rights is probably doing so that he does not have to pay child support and the mother is not on any assistance.

I believe this is only true in cases of normal (ie non rape/ incest/ etc) children.

Ditto from above all crime is commercial...

Quote
Even if the mother did not put him on the birth certificate. He can have a paternity test performed on the child.

And because the mother said she was a rape victim the courts are more likely to think she is "mentally ill" and give the father custody.

Sheep- where did you get this stuff??

Freedom-school.com "Mastering the UCC", various articles on prisoners and prisons
UCC means Uniform Commercial Code all corporations go by this and the courts are a corporation. And any "sovereign" websites.

Quote
The agency must report the rape and allow the father to claim the child. Why would a rape victim want this?

What I am saying to a rape victim is don't go there, don't invite the rapist into your child's life. God will provide for you and your child.

sheep

the smart sheep · « **Reply #14 on:** July 20, 2011, 07:57:01 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I think someone stated the other day the difference between relying on God and having prudence (I'm sorry I forget the terms).

I really messed up my quote things on the last post. I hope you can see where I responded to you. The bottom line is that the rapist did not go to jail for the actual crime. All crime is commercial and he has full rights to his children . Children and yourself are property or you might say a corporation. The courts are only doing business.

And I really do not understand what you mean by this last statement. As you can tell I have less noodles than the rest of ya'll sheep.

sheep