Author Topic: dealing with protestants (Read 1301 times)

Conspiracy_Factist · « **on:** October 25, 2012, 07:19:01 PM »

I'm starting to encounter more and more of these born ye againers in the workplace and especially on certain forums, here's one such moronic post that I would like to get your opinions on
"The Roman priesthood always was and always will be about worship of the Babylonian/Egyptian/Roman sun god, known by different names in different cultures, who IS NOT Yahwey the Creator of Heaven and Earth. That's why the Romans crucified Yahshua/Jesus Christ on Mithra's cross. That's why they observe 40 days of "Lent" in remembrance of the 40 years of the life of Tammuz, just as the Israelites did, who learned Babylon's paganism and committed abominations when they went back to Jerusalem. (Ezekiel 8:14) That's why they observe "Christ's" birthday on December 25, not on the day that the Saviour was really born. That's why they have the "Madonna and child", which are really Semiramis and Tammuz. That's why they have "Easter eggs" and rabbits. It is all abomination to Yahwey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SPD600CBC5F8A02DF0&feature=player_embedded&v=IWCEmKGQF_U

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #1 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:31:01 PM »

I've dealt with people like those before. Pretty soon, they will be telling you about how we should all be wearing fringes on our clothing and writing in ancient Hebrew and keeping "kosher". These nut-cases actually go so far as to suggest that the only way to trust what is "kosher" these days is to take the advice and the recommendations of the Jєω 'rabbis' who practice a pagan religion that is NOTHING like the faith of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

They like to think of themselves as 'netsarim' or 'nazarenes' (not to be confused with the Protestant Nazarene denomination. They are usually non-Israeli, non-Jєω white people (with the occasional black person) who have grown tired of the fractious, fly-by-night, private-interpretation culture that is endemic to Protestantism.

Ask them where they got their Scriptures from. Ask them how come there have been no groups like theirs since:

a) the time of the beginnings of Christianity, when it was in close proximity with rabbinical Jєω religion

and

b) the so-called 'reformation' when all of a sudden, everyone who could get a hold of a passage of Scripture was suddenly a 'prophet' or 'apostle' or whatever.

Now, with the Internet and self-publishing available, every kooky cult out there is going to raise its head from time to time.

Laugh at them... it's the only reasonable response. They aren't satisfied with Jєω religion, they aren't satisfied with Prot religion. They criticize EVERY other religion, including Christ's True Church, and they can only satisfy themselves with fables, distortions and reliance on some of the most historically inaccurate and laughable sources of anti-Catholic propaganda that exist.

Believe me, when there's only ONE of something, and it isn't the historic Catholic Church, you can bet it's either a poor imitation of Her or the ranting of some lunatic who thinks the Church should never have been founded in the first place.

Amazing, when you think of how many CENTURIES of history there have been where God has SO clearly defended His Holy Church from even worse people than this wacko. All of a sudden, this kook thinks he's FINALLY the guy to set us all straight.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #2 on:** October 25, 2012, 08:44:01 PM »

Oh, and another thing...

The Name of God the Father in Hebrew would be pronounced "Yah-OO-ah", not "Yahwey" or "yah-way" like so many people think. It's also not Jehovah in any language except in Elizabethan English, since the letter "J" didn't appear as a "J" sound until then. Rather, it was a capital "I" that had a tail. I digress...

Proof about the Hebrew name and pronunciation? Simple. The Hebrew word for "Judah" is pronounced "Yah-OO-dah", with a "d" in the last syllable, which corresponds to a "dalet" in Hebrew. The name of God that He reveals to Moses is spelled and pronounced EXACTLY the same, EXCEPT there's no dalet in the word.

There are actually FOUR syllables in the name, if you want to get technical. Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey in Hebrew (the letters) sound like "ee-ah-OO-ah", but the first two syllables conflate and thus sound like "yah".

The name CAN'T be "yah-WAY", because the letter "hey" in Hebrew is pronounced "ah", not "ay". If it were pronounced "ay", the name would be pronounced like "ee-ay-OO-ay", or

"yay-way".

See?

These people want to argue about names, just like the Jєω Pharisees did when they brought St. Paul the Apostle to Agrippa. The ruler told the Jєωs, "if this be a case of a name or names, you see to it yourself". The Jєωs were upset that St. Paul was equating Jesus Our Lord with God, and I am sure St. Paul, who could speak Hebrew, probably used the name of God instead of a euphemism. The Jєωs would have been insulted by all this, because their man-made religion and traditions mean more than the truth.

These "nazarenes" or "messianics" or whatever they call themselves are just grasping at straws because they simply won't humble themselves and come under the authority of Holy Church. ANYTHING they can try to keep justifying their pride and sin, they will do.

Unfortunately, many, many people who join fundamentalist fringe outfits like those tend to crash, burn and reject religion altogether. He is to be pitied even as his stupid religion is to be mocked.

Holy Apostles, who obeyed the Law of God by hearing, touching, seeing and worshiping Him, pray for us.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Nishant · « **Reply #3 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:26:54 PM »

Quote

"The Roman priesthood always was and always will be about worship of the Babylonian/Egyptian/Roman sun god ...

As Cardinal Newman said, "To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant".

Introduce them briefly to the early history of the Holy Roman Church, from the time of St.Peter downward, to show its stellar claims to Apostolic succession and the preservation of the true faith, such that communion with Rome was even then regarded as a necessary and certain rule of faith, by virtue of the divine promises she received. St.Ignatius and St.Irenaeus are two second century witnesses par excellence. The witness of Pope St.Clement, the fourth Pope who by the way mentioned in sacred Scripture, in one of his letters, is even earlier.

Quote from: St.Irenaeus, Against Heresies, second century

Because it would be too long in such a volume as this to enumerate the successions of all the churches, we point to the tradition of that very great and very ancient and universally known Church, which was founded and established at Rome, by the two most glorious Apostles, Peter and Paul: we point I say, to the tradition which this Church has from the Apostles, and to her faith proclaimed to men which comes down to our time through the succession of her bishops, and so we put to shame . . . all who assemble in unauthorized meetings. For with this Church, because of its superior authority, every Church must agree — that is the faithful everywhere — in communion with which Church the tradition of the Apostles has been always preserved by those who are everywhere

The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric ...

To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.

So, especially in Rome, because of this Apostolic succession, there was simply no possibility, and it can be altogether ruled out, that the divine faith received from the Apostles could be corrupted. Every successive Bishop of Rome was groomed and commissioned by a previous one going back to St.Peter, and were charged with guarding the faith, if necessary with their blood. Most early Popes were martyrs and Saints. So there could never been a corruption of this sort that is imagined in the early Church.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2012, 04:33:01 AM »

+JMJ+

I thought of something else last night as I went to bed:

If these splinter groups all claim that there was something other than what we know as succession, tradition and Apostolic authority going on in the Church, then WHERE are all the other Gospels and writings of THOSE groups, talking about Our Lord Jesus Christ and all that He said and did? How is it that the Church sorted through all these extant writings in the early centuries post-Apostles, and formalized and defined the Canon of Holy Scripture, and yet NO ONE is publishing or ever has published ANYTHING contrary except excerpts from the detritus that was discarded by the Holy Church? You know, the 'gospel' of Thomas, etc.

Why aren't these people claiming that some of the writings found at Qumran (the 'Dead Sea Scrolls') are actually to be reverenced as Scripture? Why aren't there other 'apostles' or 'prophets' from the time of Our Lord who have these other perspectives?

Oh, well. I guess either Irenaeus or other people just invented our religion, and none of it is true, which is why the Church has the only Canon that anyone accepts. We just made it all up a long time ago.

Or, just perhaps, no one can offer anything else because there's nothing else to offer. The Church is the Church; always has been and always will be, the efforts of the heretics and infidels notwithstanding.

St. Anthony of Padua, hammer of heretics, terror of Hell, pray for us.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon!

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

Ascetik · « **Reply #5 on:** October 27, 2012, 08:53:27 PM »

Well said Stephen.

I got banned from www.survivalistboards.com because I was voracious in fighting the anti-Catholic heretics there. Lots and lots of former Catholics turned prot or simply secular relativists on there.

Needless to say, I brought up many of things you mention and more. I told one woman her father was Satan because she said she "helped" a nun leave Catholicism. That got me banned the first time. Then I said the Jєωs were not the chosen people anymore because Christ established a new covenant. That got me banned for life. Clear example of irrational prots behaving in knee-jerk ways.

We can trace every bishop back to the apostles. We put scripture together. And of course the one they can never answer... what authority do you have to make these claims?

Protestants are some of the most irrational and diabolical people I have ever met. Atheists are probably number 1, but Protestants are definitely a hair lengths away in second.

I got into a debate just the other night with a girl who is white, in her twenties and from the southern united states who converted to Islam. She was trying to have a theological/philosophical debate with me on religion, particular why Islam is so great and Christianity is wrong, and she had two of her worshiping weak minded groveling secular boy toys lauding her every irrational statement, as if that made her more truthful in her error. I am a philosophy major and have took masters level Thomistic theology classes and have been studying the faith and apologetics since I was 17 almost every single day of my life since I had my re-version. I am 28 now. Anyway all she could do was attack me, and attack the Church instead of having a rational debate or theological discussion. She tried telling me that we worship the same God, but that Jesus wasn't God. She kept talking about how great Islam is and how much better it is, yet she told me verbatim "fornication isn't wrong." So she is not even a practicing Muslim. I said you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ; therefore, you do not believe in the Trinity; therefore, you do not believe in the same God as me. And she is so irrational that she said, "No, we do." I mean... really?! These are the kind of people out there that I have to debate with? At that moment, I knew there was no hope and I ended the conversation.

Sadly, this is most people in their twenties. Complete and utterly irrational. If you said 2+2=4 they would say it can also equal 10 or 100.

Once you rebuke a Protestant with irrefutable evidence two or three times, after that if they are not humble and accept it as a possibility and are willing to look at it further, you're better off walking away or leaving and just praying for them because no amount of rational discourse is going to convert someone whose "mind is unhinged" to quote Bishop Williamson.

alaric · « **Reply #6 on:** October 28, 2012, 06:43:39 AM »

Quote from: Ascetik

Well said Stephen.

I got banned from www.survivalistboards.com because I was voracious in fighting the anti-Catholic heretics there. Lots and lots of former Catholics turned prot or simply secular relativists on there.

Needless to say, I brought up many of things you mention and more. I told one woman her father was Satan because she said she "helped" a nun leave Catholicism. That got me banned the first time. Then I said the Jєωs were not the chosen people anymore because Christ established a new covenant. That got me banned for life. Clear example of irrational prots behaving in knee-jerk ways.

We can trace every bishop back to the apostles. We put scripture together. And of course the one they can never answer... what authority do you have to make these claims?

Protestants are some of the most irrational and diabolical people I have ever met. Atheists are probably number 1, but Protestants are definitely a hair lengths away in second.

I got into a debate just the other night with a girl who is white, in her twenties and from the southern united states who converted to Islam. She was trying to have a theological/philosophical debate with me on religion, particular why Islam is so great and Christianity is wrong, and she had two of her worshiping weak minded groveling secular boy toys lauding her every irrational statement, as if that made her more truthful in her error. I am a philosophy major and have took masters level Thomistic theology classes and have been studying the faith and apologetics since I was 17 almost every single day of my life since I had my re-version. I am 28 now. Anyway all she could do was attack me, and attack the Church instead of having a rational debate or theological discussion. She tried telling me that we worship the same God, but that Jesus wasn't God. She kept talking about how great Islam is and how much better it is, yet she told me verbatim "fornication isn't wrong." So she is not even a practicing Muslim. I said you don't believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ; therefore, you do not believe in the Trinity; therefore, you do not believe in the same God as me. And she is so irrational that she said, "No, we do." I mean... really?! These are the kind of people out there that I have to debate with? At that moment, I knew there was no hope and I ended the conversation.

Sadly, this is most people in their twenties. Complete and utterly irrational. If you said 2+2=4 they would say it can also equal 10 or 100.

Once you rebuke a Protestant with irrefutable evidence two or three times, after that if they are not humble and accept it as a possibility and are willing to look at it further, you're better off walking away or leaving and just praying for them because no amount of rational discourse is going to convert someone whose "mind is unhinged" to quote Bishop Williamson.

The problem is with debating these Evangelicals or "born agains" is they love to chant the mantra of " The bible, the bible, the bible....says" and then base their apologetics of their own interpretations of scripture or that of the local store-front "preacher" where they've been throughly brainwashed and all critical thought removed, except of course when it comes to those nasty, idol-worshiping, paganized "Cat-licks", of which of course many become enlightened authorities on the Church when the vast majority of them never even stepped foot in one or have clue about Dogma and Doctrine. I can almost gaurantee you that ninety-nine percent of these type have never read a single Encyclical or Papal Bull on anything or have any idea of the concept on how we come about Church teaching through Sacred Scripture, Tradition and Magisterial Teaching.

So where do you go from there? It all comes down really to their own personal belief system on what the bible says, never mind the facts or things like sound logic and reasoning. This same goes for many a Muslim, especially the newer "converts", it's all about "The koran, thekoran, the koran...says" and then proceed to build their own interpretation of what it says on Christianity or what the Imam down at the local Mosque tells them. Another thing on Islam is unless you can read and speak in the originial Arabic most Muslim scholars will tell you, you haven't got the slightest clue on what the Koran is talking about, this is kind of their self-defense mechanism on many who would debate them on their own sacred texts, but it works both ways on the thinking Christian who would force the issue on the new Muslim convert, especially a white or Western one, to actually know what they "believe".