Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Minnesota on August 01, 2022, 05:28:05 PM
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https://twitter.com/Francis5Domini3/status/1554201765666512898
Please pray for him
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:pray:
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:pray:
What's he dying of?
I've always felt sorry for the guy with his Pope Michael delusion.
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:pray:
What's he dying of?
I've always felt sorry for the guy with his Pope Michael delusion.
Tweets are saying cerebral hemorrhage.
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:pray:
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:pray:
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Who gave the sacrment ? of Extreme Unction? Will their be a conclave.:incense:
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Tweets are saying cerebral hemorrhage.
Make one wonder if he got the jab.
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Who gave the sacrment ? of Extreme Unction? Will their be a conclave.:incense:
Perhaps by a "priest" ordained by himself.
Valid priest?
Duarte-Costa line?
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Make one wonder if he got the jab.
I went there as well. I mean, how old is this man?
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:pray:
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I went there as well. I mean, how old is this man?
I looked it up. He was born in 1959, so he's 62. His "reign" has gone on for 32 years, which surpasses the longest reigning Catholic pope in history, which is not surprising given the young age at which he assumed the "papacy". And were he not passing away this young, he could have gone on for another 30. You have to admire his perseverance. Most people would have given up thinking they're the Pope after about 6 months or so, after no one else really bought it.
At least he became famous enough to get his own Wikipedia article.
He may even be a valid priest or bishop. He was ordained/consecrated in 2011 by a guy who descends from the Old Catholic "Mexican Catholic Church".
This is a cool site here (would probably be good for the +Thuc line bishops to set something like this up. You can click the links to trace his lineage back.
https://sites.google.com/site/gnostickos/bbishopsbawden
About 2 or 3 back was someone who had a co-consecrator, one descending from an Orthodox line and the other an Old Catholic line. One of the big problems, however, is that there's no indication of who ordained them to the priesthood.
But I do pity the man. He's just another casualty of the wicked Conciliar Church. :pray:
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He was at Ecône in the very, very early days of the SSPX. Like, the first decade of seminarians in the 1970s. That corroborates his age.
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Perhaps by a "priest" ordained by himself.
Valid priest?
Duarte-Costa line?
Yeah, I looked up his lineage with those links, and at one point like 2-3 back, the individual consecrated (by two bishops) had a line that on the one side was a blend of Duarte-Costa / Old Catholic but on the other from the Orthodox. So it's an interesting blend that I think has a decent probability of being valid ... provided these guys were capable of properly performing the Rite. But I would say there's still positive doubt here and would avoid receiving Sacraments from his line except in danger of death and no alternatives.
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https://religion.fandom.com/wiki/Carlos_Duarte_Costa Costa nominated as Bishop of Botucatu, under Pope Pius XI in 1924. In the 1930's Costa was deeply involved in social and political changes taking place in Brazil. In 1932 Costa was active in the constitutionalist revolution. Coasta formed a Battalion of the Bishop to fight on the side of the Constitutional troops. In 1936 Dom Carlos made 2nd visit to Rome, meeting with Pope Pius XI. Dom Carlos Costa presented the pope with a list of radical changes, requests for the clergy and people of his diocese. 1. Celebrate Mass in vernacular language, 2. permission for clergy to marry, 3. abolition of auricular confession replacing it with general or communal, 3. laity to distribute Holy Communion under both kinds, 4. diaconate for married persons, 5. Mass, priest facing people and priest behind altar. 6. Creation of a Council of Advice composed of bishops. The requests were not accepted. Resignation was accepted by Pope, Oct .1937. Dom Carlos was accused by the Brazilian gov't of being a communist sympathizer. arrested June 1944, excommunicated July 1945, 1946 to the severest degrees. Dom Carlos established Brazilian Catholic Apostolic Church (ICAB). July 25, 1945 church legally registered t. He published "Manefesto to the Nations." criticizing the Roman Catholic Church.Sept. 1948 ICAB churches were closed on the grounds that they were deceiving the public into thinking they were Catholic. Dom Carlos consecrated 3 bishops 1945 and 1948. Costa died 1961. He formed numerous independent catholic denominations in the U.S.
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Couldn't help thinking that, delusions aside, he would certainly have left the Church in better condition than any of the last 6 popes.
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Couldn't help thinking that, delusions aside, he would certainly have left the Church in better condition than any of the last 6 popes.
You're not wrong. Ironically, had he stayed at Ecône and been one of the first decade of Lefevbre's ordinands in the SSPX in the 70s and early 80s, there's a chance that he is part of "The Nine" and years down the road, is consecrated a bishop for a Trad group. He would've made a fine priest.
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You're not wrong. Ironically, had he stayed at Ecône and been one of the first decade of Lefevbre's ordinands in the SSPX in the 70s and early 80s, there's a chance that he is part of "The Nine" and years down the road, is consecrated a bishop for a Trad group. He would've made a fine priest.
I second that. I think he would have made an outstanding Pope.
Sure would be an improvement what we're stuck with now, and as I always tell my family, "assuming he IS Pope". My father, God rest his soul, didn't accept Bergoglio, he was no theologian, he offered no explanation, he'd just say "that man's no Pope".
I always say that my father and I were the poor man's Hutton and Mel Gibson, me minus the looks, talent, money, alcoholism, and philandering.
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No doubt. I'd rather have 100 years of Pope Bawden than 1 month of Bergoglio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96WxyxPfOY
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The wikipedia page says that he died today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
and links to this obituary https://www.davidsonfuneral.com/obituary/father-david-bawden?lud=567DBD3E5EB0CE7C300BDF852AC09EFE
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The wikipedia page says that he died today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
and links to this obituary https://www.davidsonfuneral.com/obituary/father-david-bawden?lud=567DBD3E5EB0CE7C300BDF852AC09EFE
:pray:
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:pray:
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The wikipedia page says that he died today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
and links to this obituary https://www.davidsonfuneral.com/obituary/father-david-bawden?lud=567DBD3E5EB0CE7C300BDF852AC09EFE
Strange that they only refer to him as "Father David Bawden" ... not even bishop, much less pope.
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No doubt. I'd rather have 100 years of Pope Bawden than 1 month of Bergoglio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96WxyxPfOY
Yeah, imagine that...a Catholic pope to boot.
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:pray:
"Mass of Christian Burial". Upon my word and honor.
I can only hope that this is the funeral home's default reference to a Catholic funeral, and that he is instead having a Traditional Latin Requiem Mass.
I was just in a meeting today with the representative of the firm that I am seeking to appoint as the trustee of our modest family estate, when that time comes, and I was telling him about the Latin Mass and about the arrangements I have made for my own funeral. He wasn't Catholic but he was very respectful.
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"Mass of Christian Burial". Upon my word and honor.
I can only hope that this is the funeral home's default reference to a Catholic funeral, and that he is instead having a Traditional Latin Requiem Mass.
I was just in a meeting today with the representative of the firm that I am seeking to appoint as the trustee of our modest family estate, when that time comes, and I was telling him about the Latin Mass and about the arrangements I have made for my own funeral. He wasn't Catholic but he was very respectful.
Yeah. I saw that as well. I wondered whether the person responsible for making the funeral arrangements and writing the obituary is not Traditional Catholic. It might explain why it only says Father too.
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The wikipedia page says that he died today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bawden
and links to this obituary https://www.davidsonfuneral.com/obituary/father-david-bawden?lud=567DBD3E5EB0CE7C300BDF852AC09EFE
:incense: :pray:
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Yeah. I saw that as well. I wondered whether the person responsible for making the funeral arrangements and writing the obituary is not Traditional Catholic. It might explain why it only says Father too.
Out of respect to Fr Bawden and his mother, I kind of hesitate to post this, but this "St Helen's Catholic Mission" in Topeka is a little... strange.
There's nothing patently un-traditional or un-Catholic about either website, but there's something I can't quite put my finger on. Here are the websites:
https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/ (https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/)
https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/
(https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/)Anybody ever hear of this mission before? It's not in the TRADITIO Catholic Directory.
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Out of respect to Fr Bawden and his mother, I kind of hesitate to post this, but this "St Helen's Catholic Mission" in Topeka is a little... strange.
There's nothing patently un-traditional or un-Catholic about either website, but there's something I can't quite put my finger on. Here are the websites:
https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/ (https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/)
https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/
(https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/)Anybody ever hear of this mission before? It's not in the TRADITIO Catholic Directory.
Is that supposed to be his chapel???
Seems more like a Novus ordo website and the "Holy Orders" part has no mention of the minor orders or anything... 🤔
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No doubt. I'd rather have 100 years of Pope Bawden than 1 month of Bergoglio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b96WxyxPfOY
Confused, but hopeful? At least he wasn't a jew anti-pope, like Bergolio.
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Is that supposed to be his chapel???
Seems more like a Novus ordo website and the "Holy Orders" part has no mention of the minor orders or anything... 🤔
I know, it has this kind of generic feel to it, on one hand, reference is made to Extreme Unction, and they use the TLM calendar (where the sermons are listed), but OTOH, there are many things missing, that you would expect on a traditionalist website. The chapel address is a very modest home in a residential area of Topeka. It's not clear whether it was DB's chapel or not.
I wondered if he could have repudiated his claim to the papacy in his last days, yet still regarded his orders as valid (which they well may have been).
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From the St. Helen's Mission web site, if one clicks on "Links", and then on "Vatican In Exile" one is taken to a web site that says This website is under the authority of the Pope Michael, who is pope of the Catholic Church.
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Here is a video of the Mass from the St Helen's website.
There is nothing whatsoever risible about this. It is the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and such humble appointments should be familiar to anyone who has ever assisted at a home Mass, as I have.
https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/videos/2255194994588014/ (https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/videos/2255194994588014/)
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Out of respect to Fr Bawden and his mother, I kind of hesitate to post this, but this "St Helen's Catholic Mission" in Topeka is a little... strange.
There's nothing patently un-traditional or un-Catholic about either website, but there's something I can't quite put my finger on. Here are the websites:
https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/ (https://www.sainthelencatholicmission.org/)
https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/
(https://www.facebook.com/PatronSaintHelen/)Anybody ever hear of this mission before? It's not in the TRADITIO Catholic Directory.
Three things after a quick perusal.
1. In the exposition of the Creed, it was the Romans who did everything. The Jews just watched
2. The speak of the commonality of all your possessions by others.
3, They call themselves Vatican in Exile which puzzled before I realised they were the faithful of Fr Bawden RIP.
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Attached is someone's account of meeting him in person.
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I know, it has this kind of generic feel to it, on one hand, reference is made to Extreme Unction, and they use the TLM calendar (where the sermons are listed), but OTOH, there are many things missing, that you would expect on a traditionalist website. The chapel address is a very modest home in a residential area of Topeka. It's not clear whether it was DB's chapel or not.
I wondered if he could have repudiated his claim to the papacy in his last days, yet still regarded his orders as valid (which they well may have been).
Well... We can at least hope and pray for him! :pray:
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From the St. Helen's Mission web site, if one clicks on "Links", and then on "Vatican In Exile" one is taken to a web site that says This website is under the authority of the Pope Michael, who is pope of the Catholic Church.
Thanks! I missed that earlier! Got interrupted by the little boys! 😅
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Attached is someone's account of meeting him in person.
This is a very respectful piece, and even though I never met DB, I came away with much the same impression after seeing portions of the docuмentary about him (which was very respectful as well).
May he rest in peace.
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Requiem aeternam dona ei Domine et lux perpetuam luceat ei. Requiescat in pace. Amen.
:incense:
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(https://i.postimg.cc/3JYhmKJ6/pm1.jpg)
Reconciled to NO apparently?
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It's very possible that privately, he reconciled with the diocesan Church before death and told absolutely no one. It happens.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/3JYhmKJ6/pm1.jpg)
Reconciled to NO apparently?
That would be a shame considering his position for decades on the Novus Ordo, even if he was wrong about himself being the Pope. :facepalm:
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That would be a shame considering his position for decades on the Novus Ordo, even if he was wrong about himself being the Pope. :facepalm:
Of course how would we ever know if this report is true?
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His lineage...
Primary Consecrator:
Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa, consecrated on 08/15/1954 Bishop Emile Federico Fairfield Rodriguez y Durand
Bishop Rodriguez-Durand consecrated Bishop Schultz, Jr. on 05/18/1975
Bishop Schultz consecrated Bishop Bless on 4 January 1986
Bishop Bless on May 5, 2002, assisted by Bp. Gallo, Bp. Perez, Bp. Mathieu, and Bp. Baladad consecrated Bishop Parnell.
Bishop Parnell on January 20, 2003 consecrated Bishop Justice
Bishop Justice on November 11, 2011 consecrated Bishop Robert.
Bishop Robert consecrated Pope Michael on December 10, 2011
Co-consecrator:
Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa, a former Catholic bishop, consecrated on 08/15/1954 Bishop Emile Federico Fairfield Rodriguez y Durand
Bishop Rodriguez-Durand consecrated Bishop Schultz, Jr. on 05/18/1975
Bishop Schultz consecrated Bishop Bless on 4 January 1986
Bishop Bless on May 5, 2002, assisted by Bp. Gallo, Bp. Perez, Bp. Mathieu, and Bp. Baladad consecrated Bishop Parnell.
Bishop Parnell on January 20, 2003 consecrated Bishop Justice
Bishop Justice on November 11, 2011 consecrated Bishop Robert.
Bishop Robert consecrated Pope Michael on December 10, 2011
Co-consecrator:
Bishop Arnold hαɾɾιs Mathew consecrated Bishop Willoughby on October 28, 1914
Bishop Willoughby consecrated Bishop Banks on July 9, 1922
Bishop Banks consecrated Bishop Cooper on June 22, 1924
Bishop Cooper consecrated Bishop Brearley on January 31, 1954
Bishop Brearly consecrated Bishop Barbeaus on May 14, 1968
Bishop Barbeau consecrated Bishop Curerri on July 30, 1977
Bishop Curerri consecrated Bishop Brennan on October 9, 1979
Bishop Brennan consecrated Bishop Bless on May 14, 1987
Bishop Bless on May 5, 2002, assisted by Bp. Gallo, Bp. Perez, Bp. Mathieu, and Bp. Baladad consecrated Bishop Parnell.
Bishop Parnell on January 20, 2003 consecrated Bishop Justice
Bishop Justice on November 11, 2011 consecrated Bishop Robert.
Bishop Robert consecrated Pope Michael on December 10, 2011
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We personally know Rober Biarnesen, or should say did. We were told what he did and that was it. He lives with his wife in the Phoenix area. We knew them since 2011.
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This is from a priest in my local archdiocese who contacted Bawden's chapel in Kansas, who reports that he was NOT received by the diocese upon his death, much less awake. I personally believe this more than any reports to the contrary.
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That would be a shame considering his position for decades on the Novus Ordo, even if he was wrong about himself being the Pope. :facepalm:
Who knows what the truth is? His obituary called him "Father Bawden", but then who wrote that? It sounds as if his condition came on suddenly and that he probably became critical very quickly, and those are situations where people around him might have called in the NO priest to administer Last Rites and then claim he was reconciled.
If he did, after 32+ years of insisting that the V2 papal claimants are Antipopes, then one has to ask whether he REALLY believed that he was the pope or if it was only half-sincere the entire time.
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This is from a priest in my local archdiocese who contacted Bawden's chapel in Kansas, who reports that he was NOT received by the diocese upon his death, much less awake. I personally believe this more than any reports to the contrary.
What you posted here seconds before my post backs up my speculation ... that he was not in a conscious state to perform any such reconciliation with the Conciliar Church. They claimed the same thing of Archbishop Thuc after they kidnapped him and then wouldn't let anyone near him as he passed away.
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And who knows what people mean when they say "reconciled". The obituary said he repented of his schism. Well, I hope he realized that calling himself "pope" for years was wrong, even if his intentions were good. So assuming he did repent of this error/schism, that doesn't mean he "reconciled with the novus ordo". It's possible that one of his novus ordo relatives heard he stopped being "pope" and assumed he went back to new rome. The right course of action, hopefully confirmed by this priest, is he just went back to being a Trad priest/bishop (whatever his true orders were). Either way, i'll pray for him.
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This is from a priest in my local archdiocese who contacted Bawden's chapel in Kansas, who reports that he was NOT received by the diocese upon his death, much less awake. I personally believe this more than any reports to the contrary.
Matthew, remove my post and ban me for gossip.
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Matthew, remove my post and ban me for gossip.
Nah, it wasn't that big of a deal. You simply posted a link to something a NO priest wrote.
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Matthew, remove my post and ban me for gossip.
Don't be so dramatic
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Matthew, remove my post and ban me for gossip.
You did nothing wrong. There's conflicting information and anecdotes because he just died two days ago.
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This guy also knew him personally, and is claiming it is belony. https://twitter.com/jarldietrich/status/1554955239006109697
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What you posted here seconds before my post backs up my speculation ... that he was not in a conscious state to perform any such reconciliation with the Conciliar Church. They claimed the same thing of Archbishop Thuc after they kidnapped him and then wouldn't let anyone near him as he passed away.
Which brings me back to wondering...how did he end up in a coma with a cerebral hemorrhage at the age of 62?
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Matthew, remove my post and ban me for gossip.
Why would someone downvote this post?
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I can't take these claims very seriously. There is no proof that I can see. David Bawden's website is still up, in which he claims to be pope. Wouldn't he have to take that down if he "repented"? Maybe you could say he retracted his ways in his last moments, but then, where's the proof?
The obituary is a little strange inasmuch as it refers to him as "Father David", but that was something he obviously didn't write. I think it's a lot more likely that either the people who published the obituary didn't want him to be referred to as the pope, or more likely it was written by a family member who was embarrassed about his claim to the papacy but didn't want to refer to him simply as if he were a layman, so they chose "Father David" as some sort of middle ground.
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Which brings me back to wondering...how did he end up in a coma with a cerebral hemorrhage at the age of 62?
I think it just happens... there were people dying of those at 62 long before anything covid or vaccine or whatever.
This guy also knew him personally, and is claiming it is belony. https://twitter.com/jarldietrich/status/1554955239006109697
Exactly. There'll always be conflicting anecdotes because there is nothing messier, logistically than someone dying.
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The obituary is a little strange inasmuch as it refers to him as "Father David", but that was something he obviously didn't write. I think it's a lot more likely that either the people who published the obituary didn't want him to be referred to as the pope, or more likely it was written by a family member who was embarrassed about his claim to the papacy but didn't want to refer to him simply as if he were a layman, so they chose "Father David" as some sort of middle ground.
That is exactly what I was thinking. They very well may have wished to honor his priesthood, but didn't want to expose him to public ridicule by calling him "Pope Michael" as well. I also noticed that he was active in community affairs there in Topeka, so if he were simply known as "Father Bawden", people (except for practicing Novus Ordo Catholics) would have pretty much taken that at face value. Ministers of religion can be found in every corner of secular life --- mechanics, auto dealers, librarians, security guards (just to name examples from my own community) --- and nobody gives it a second thought.
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Which brings me back to wondering...how did he end up in a coma with a cerebral hemorrhage at the age of 62?
It happens. One of our staff members died at 61 or 62 a few years back in his sleep. He was absolutely fine the day before.
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I can't take these claims very seriously. There is no proof that I can see.
Yeti, you're constantly saying, on multiple threads, that you "need proof" or "you don't buy it". Ok, we get it. This site doesn't provide proof for 80% of posts. If you keep asking for proof on everything, you'll be continually disappointed.
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Why would someone downvote this post?
You really don't know? Allow me to clue you in.
Maybe someone doesn't like head games and drama? I mean, calling for YOURSELF to be banned? What kind of nonsense is that? Even going so far as to report your own post to the moderator? (which he did)?
And frankly, anyone bringing up "banning" besides the moderator -- as a threat, an invitation, a mob action -- they all deserve downvotes according to many people, including myself.
Anyone "announcing" a dramatic departure often gets downvotes -- again, for good reason. No one likes a drama queen.
I didn't downvote the post. I'd certainly say so if I did. I just wanted to aid your imagination why someone MIGHT have had a problem with that post...
Just speak simply, like men. Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no". If you want to make a point, use plain English. It's not that difficult.
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You really don't know? Allow me to clue you in.
Maybe someone doesn't like head games and drama? I mean, calling for YOURSELF to be banned? What kind of nonsense is that? Even going so far as to report your own post to the moderator? (which he did)?
And frankly, anyone bringing up "banning" besides the moderator -- as a threat, an invitation, a mob action -- they all deserve downvotes according to many people, including myself.
Anyone "announcing" a dramatic departure often gets downvotes -- again, for good reason. No one likes a drama queen.
I didn't downvote the post. I'd certainly say so if I did. I just wanted to aid your imagination why someone MIGHT have had a problem with that post...
Just speak simply, like men. Let your "yes" be "yes" and your "no" be "no". If you want to make a point, use plain English. It's not that difficult.
I took it as hyperbole.
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I took it as hyperbole.
As did I.
But still, I could imagine someone getting annoyed with it. It's not that far-fetched.
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This person on twitter asked asked vaticaninexile and received this answer https://twitter.com/LiaEleven/status/1555543363490816001?s=20&t=-yP1tOezJN31u1tIbwTY_g
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This person on twitter asked asked vaticaninexile and received this answer https://twitter.com/LiaEleven/status/1555543363490816001?s=20&t=-yP1tOezJN31u1tIbwTY_g
I have to wonder if this "Mass of Christian Burial" business is muddying the waters.
Novus Ordo parishes typically don't have MCBs at funeral homes, rather, they use the parish church. I'm still tempted to think that the writers of the obituary simply thought "Mass of Christian Burial" is what all Catholic funeral Masses are called, based upon having written obituaries for many a Catholic, and not understanding that there is even such a thing as "traditional Catholicism".
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Here's a story I found on Father Bawden's involvement with his neighborhood community:
https://www.wibw.com/2021/11/20/oakland-neighborhood-is-getting-more-colorful/ (https://www.wibw.com/2021/11/20/oakland-neighborhood-is-getting-more-colorful/)
You could cut those Kansas accents with a knife.