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Offline love alabama

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culture of the US South
« on: October 04, 2011, 05:30:50 PM »
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  • Everyone I know says that the culture of the US South is great. What do you think about it from a Trad Catholic point of view?

     What are its pros and cons?


    Offline PereJoseph

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 06:08:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: love alabama
    Everyone I know says that the culture of the US South is great.


    Which part and which time period ?  There is a lot of variation, and, of course, South Louisiana is completely different than the rest of the so-called US South, so I exclude it from all of my analysis here.
     
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    What do you think about it from a Trad Catholic point of view?


    Within the US, it was once the tallest midget at the fair.  Now it just has some residue of its old self, but New York, Los Angeles, Nashville, Lowchurch Calvinism, and Evangelicalism have done their work.  And so has Monsanto, Disney, McDonald's, and Wal-Mart.  The Yankees won the war, and things were already worse down here after Jefferson "purchased" western Louisiana (the country, not the US jurisdiction) and the Anglo-Texans committed treason and separated from their sovereign government in the name of Anglo-Germanic Protestant liberalism in the 1840's.  It is harldly any different than the rest of the US today, since Anglo-Southerners consume all the same media and get their food and music and religion and culture from the same factories of mass-production as anywhere else.

    I have heard speculation that, if the South won the war, many French and Spanish Catholics were ready to immigrate en masse.  I know that there was a Carlist brigade in the Confederate Army, just as there was a francophone white creole general (Beauregard).  It is possible that the victory of the Confederacy would have led to the Catholicisation of the Deep South and Texas, but it lost and such Catholicisation obviously never happened.  Instead, all of the Anglicans seemed to have become Baptists or joined some other strange group.

    I don't think it can claim to be separate from the rest of the US anymore, at least not substantially.  It has a different flavour and there are still some residual social attitudes and inclinations that are more in touch with the natural order.  The women tend to be more feminine and neo-Marxism has not made as many inroads into the popular psychology.  There is more of an intact small-town and agrarian culture; but the television and the internet and pornography are knocking off those final pegs.  Most of the bishops and those pretending to be bishops in the past one hundred years have been notoriously liberal and Americanist, too.  I just don't see how the South can claim to be such a unique entity anymore; it's been industrialised and integrated into the general spirit of New England.  Thus, I don't imagine that it will be given special treatment in contrast from the rest of the US during the impending chastisements.

    That being said, the Antebellum South had a lot to recommend itself; even still, it was not part of Christendom.


    Offline sedetrad

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #2 on: October 05, 2011, 10:46:47 AM »
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  • I live in coastal NC. It is just as morally bankrupt as the north.

    Offline love alabama

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #3 on: October 06, 2011, 03:24:50 PM »
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  • Quote from: PereJoseph
    Quote from: love alabama
    Everyone I know says that the culture of the US South is great.


    Which part and which time period ?  There is a lot of variation, and, of course, South Louisiana is completely different than the rest of the so-called US South, so I exclude it from all of my analysis here.
     
    Quote
    What do you think about it from a Trad Catholic point of view?


    Within the US, it was once the tallest midget at the fair.  Now it just has some residue of its old self, but New York, Los Angeles, Nashville, Lowchurch Calvinism, and Evangelicalism have done their work.  And so has Monsanto, Disney, McDonald's, and Wal-Mart.  The Yankees won the war, and things were already worse down here after Jefferson "purchased" western Louisiana (the country, not the US jurisdiction) and the Anglo-Texans committed treason and separated from their sovereign government in the name of Anglo-Germanic Protestant liberalism in the 1840's.  It is harldly any different than the rest of the US today, since Anglo-Southerners consume all the same media and get their food and music and religion and culture from the same factories of mass-production as anywhere else.

    I have heard speculation that, if the South won the war, many French and Spanish Catholics were ready to immigrate en masse.  I know that there was a Carlist brigade in the Confederate Army, just as there was a francophone white creole general (Beauregard).  It is possible that the victory of the Confederacy would have led to the Catholicisation of the Deep South and Texas, but it lost and such Catholicisation obviously never happened.  Instead, all of the Anglicans seemed to have become Baptists or joined some other strange group.

    I don't think it can claim to be separate from the rest of the US anymore, at least not substantially.  It has a different flavour and there are still some residual social attitudes and inclinations that are more in touch with the natural order.  The women tend to be more feminine and neo-Marxism has not made as many inroads into the popular psychology.  There is more of an intact small-town and agrarian culture; but the television and the internet and pornography are knocking off those final pegs.  Most of the bishops and those pretending to be bishops in the past one hundred years have been notoriously liberal and Americanist, too.  I just don't see how the South can claim to be such a unique entity anymore; it's been industrialised and integrated into the general spirit of New England.  Thus, I don't imagine that it will be given special treatment in contrast from the rest of the US during the impending chastisements.

    That being said, the Antebellum South had a lot to recommend itself; even still, it was not part of Christendom.


    Morally the South is close to Catholicism in terms of the Evangelicals.

    Is abortion and contraception widespread there ? I ask since you say there is more of an influence of the Natural order among females.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #4 on: October 06, 2011, 03:28:34 PM »
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  • The South typically has better morals and nicer people than up north, but the main downside to it is that it's infested with Protestants, and most Catholics in the south are Novus Ordite modernists. I live in the south (Georgia) and there are only about 3-5 TLMs in the whole state, none of which are close to me.

    Florida and South Carolina both seem slightly more Traditional.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline love alabama

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #5 on: October 06, 2011, 03:32:49 PM »
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  • Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The South typically has better morals and nicer people than up north, but the main downside to it is that it's infested with Protestants, and most Catholics in the south are Novus Ordite modernists. I live in the south (Georgia) and there are only about 3-5 TLMs in the whole state, none of which are close to me.

    Florida and South Carolina both seem slightly more Traditional.


    South Carolina has practically no TLMs

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #6 on: October 06, 2011, 03:46:12 PM »
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  • Quote from: love alabama
    Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
    The South typically has better morals and nicer people than up north, but the main downside to it is that it's infested with Protestants, and most Catholics in the south are Novus Ordite modernists. I live in the south (Georgia) and there are only about 3-5 TLMs in the whole state, none of which are close to me.

    Florida and South Carolina both seem slightly more Traditional.


    South Carolina has practically no TLMs


    Well, South Carolina WAS more Traditional. Don't know if it still is. I attended my very first TLM there in Columbia in 2007 and attended two more after that, but in June 2009 they stopped offering them. They got priests from the FSSP to come, I think once a month. Hilton Head Island has a diocesean TLM, I can't remember if they invite the FSSP or get their own parish priests to do it.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline CathMomof7

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #7 on: October 07, 2011, 01:21:21 PM »
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  • I was born and bred in the deep south--Alabama, Georgia, and Mississippi.  I also lived in Texas and Florida, but those are states with identities of their own.

    There is an unspoken class system--old money, farm money, and low class.  

    Outsiders are treated with suspicion but they will be "nice" to you.

    Morally, they are just as bad as everyone else.  

    Southerners like to pretend and hide.  On Sunday they go to Church.  When they drink, they hide behind their menus so the pastor won't see them.  When they light up their cigarettes, they hide behind the bushes or get in their cars.

    They are sinful, just like everyone else, only they have no idea how to admit their wrongdoings because they have no understanding of confession.

    Feminism is really, really strong in the South.

    But there are some good things that come out of the culture: respect for one's elders, keeping the Lord's day holy, not airing one's "dirty laundry", honoring one's parents.

    I HATE the South.  I lived there my whole life and was always trying to leave.

    I live in Northeastern PA now and I miss a lot of things.  For example, our children are not able to play fall sports (soccer or football) because all the games are on Sunday during Mass times.  

    Is there something you wanted to know specifically?



    Offline curiouscatholic23

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2011, 12:38:38 AM »
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  • Is there a still catholic culture left in Louisiana? If so where???? Is it worth visiting/moving to??

    Offline Catholic Samurai

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #9 on: October 08, 2011, 01:31:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: curiouscatholic23
    Is there a still catholic culture left in Louisiana? If so where???? Is it worth visiting/moving to??


    Most if not all of the Cajuns I'm familiar with are all Protestants, which is interesting.

    If there is a Catholic Cajun culture I haven't encountered it yet.
    "Louvada Siesa O' Sanctisimo Sacramento!"~warcry of the Amakusa/Shimabara rebels

    "We must risk something for God!"~Hernan Cortes


    TEJANO AND PROUD!

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #10 on: October 08, 2011, 09:44:44 AM »
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  • A lot of Catholic Cajuns are charismatics. They have a huge "Steubenville on the Bayou" in Lafayette every year.

    Southern Catholics are ironically political conservatives yet theological liberals. Their bishops and priests are notoriously lib in the 60's sense of the word. They are still trapped in the 60's preaching on social issues relevant to the 60's. The religious education is crap. EWTN, though not 100% Traditional, is one small bastion of conservative NO Catholicism down there. And it is attacked relentlessly by lib priests in the area.

    Southern Catholics have completely assimilated to modern southern culture and are almost indistinguishable from their Protestant brethren in everything except what church they attend on Sunday.

    That said, at least the South is more socially conservative, though that is eroding due to internet, TV, music etc. You won't find the extreme liberal universities down there, but they are slowly becoming moderately liberal. The South is like the north 40 years ago. They are being corrupted but more slowly. At least in the North it seems there are small clusters of hardcore Trads in a sea of liberalism.


    Offline PereJoseph

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    culture of the US South
    « Reply #11 on: October 08, 2011, 03:06:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: love alabama
    Morally the South is close to Catholicism in terms of the Evangelicals.


    As far as I can tell, Evangelicals are far away from keeping Catholic morals, since their religion allows them to practice birth control and sodomy (between married couples) with impunity and they believe that their actions do not bear upon their salvation.  Also, they make up their morality as they go, since they have no semblance of a teaching authority to instruct them.

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    Is abortion and contraception widespread there ?


    Contraception ?  Absolutely.  As for abortion, I don't know, but I have seen billboards advertising it : "Pregnant ? Call 1-800-MYBODY," and so forth.

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    I ask since you say there is more of an influence of the Natural order among females.


    Well, they are more feminine in their external appearance and bearing, but the numbers of pregnancies outside of wedlock seem high, surely assisted by the rampant immodesty and the culture of cheerleading and sororities, as well as the men being immersed in sports and so forth.  There are plenty of stores for pornography and billboards advertising the same.  Perhaps there is a more conservative cultural tone, which is reflected politically, but the US government has made it impossible to keep pernicious influences from being abundant and accessible just about everywhere it maintains its dark empire.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    « Reply #12 on: October 08, 2011, 03:33:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: curiouscatholic23
    Is there a still catholic culture left in Louisiana? If so where???? Is it worth visiting/moving to??


    Well, only if you look for it in hidden places.  It is mostly maintained by the old-timers; the younger generations (and I include Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers here) are the products of mass culture.  In the country here, there are still many streets and roads occupied by one giant extended family that keeps its ancestral land.  There are a few traiteurs* still around, too, but as far as I can tell they are Novus-Ordoised and I wouldn't be surprised if they were influenced by charismaticism; the old traiteurs before the Council would have been completely different, that's for sure.  As for Traditional Catholics, there are only a few home-schooling families and some elderly folk, not to mention myself; at least, that is the case as far as sedevacantists go.  There is an SSPX chapel in Baton Rouge that is attended mostly by Cadiens who drive in every weekend.

    The great benefit of Louisiana, however, is that all of the resources for an integral Catholic folk culture are here.  All of the institutions are well-docuмented, all of the terminology, the language, etc.  There are many non-profit groups and researchers from LSU and UL in Lafayette who are devoted to preserving the old knowledge.  There are also many farmers and gardeners, etc.  If somebody were to come down here and was willing to become Acadianised, he could likely find a wife and raise his family without many difficulties in a real, mediaeval Catholic way.  In the US, on the other hand (by which I mean all places that are predominately Anglo-American instead of French, Indian, or Mexican), none of that framework exists.  Besides, there are two growing seasons, a very low cost of living, warm weather, and the Atchafalaya Basin, the largest extant wetlands in North America, so self-sufficiency is not quite as ambitious a goal down here are it would be in other places.

    Many people over in the bayou, over in Saint Martin Parish, will go out for three or four days a week and check their traps, hunt, or fish, bringing some of their excess to meat-producers for cash.  They keep hogs and a few cows, some chickens, ducks, and geese, and grow a lot of their own food, being able to make a pretty nice quiet life for themselves.  If not for industrialisation and the competition that comes with it, many more people would be able to do this and survive completely off the land this way, as we used to do in the old days.  But, it just goes to show, that most of the best remnants of Acadien culture are obscure and not in the public eye (well, before the TV show Swamp People came out on National Geographic).  A lot of those people over in Saint Martin Parish, a little north in the rolling hills, and west on the prairies still have the privilege of speaking French at home, too.  If you count the blacks, which lower the average, I would say that in those parishes (counties, as they are known elsewhere) about 25-40% still speak French at home.  For instance, at the library, a man walked right behind me just now speaking our dialect of French on his cell phone.  Anyway, I personally believe that down here is the place to be for those who want to rebuild; it has a shorter distance to go to health.

    So, I am optimistic about the renewal of the Acadien people, since we have held on for almost 400 years.  But the past one hundred fifty years have been a relentless onslaught of persecution from the Anglo-American government.  That being said, the people down here are not very metropolitan in their manners and are pretty simple and good-hearted in general.  If a chastisement and a new influx of francophone immigrants were to come, we would have everything necessary to hop back on the thin and narrow path very quickly -- and we would be able to make a good time of it, too.  Now, the importation of more of the culture of les Americains would not help.  Anybody who comes down here or is from here who wants to do the work of restoring the Kingship of Our Lord needs to embrace the local culture; at least, that is my firm belief, but Cadiens are known for hospitality, so nobody should be scared of making a move or going to the sedevacantist chapel here.  After all, the US government and Louisiana state government have been so effective, that hardly any of us know how to speak French anyway.  But our culture is bound up in our language, and unless we restore its knowledge and use, our culture will go extinct with it, and we will have the same lot as les Americains.

    As a side not, in case Graham reads this thread, perhaps this could give a bit of insight into my relentless hostility to "everything Anglo," since, as far as I am concerned, we are currently under siege from those who would destroy us.  I try not to preach or become overly polemical, though.


    *A traiteur is an old medicinal healer, who prescribes herbal remedies, sets broken bones, and uses a generous amount of novenas, invocations of patron saints, and Rosaries; this derives from our old isolation -- that is, from necessity, -- as well as being an institution inherited from mediaeval France and, further, from the old Gallo-Romans.  It has been influenced by the knowledge of the Indian tribes down here and in old Acadie, which is now divided between Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, New Brunswick, the Gaspe Peninusla, etc.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    « Reply #13 on: October 08, 2011, 03:37:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Catholic Samurai
    Quote from: curiouscatholic23
    Is there a still catholic culture left in Louisiana? If so where???? Is it worth visiting/moving to??


    Most if not all of the Cajuns I'm familiar with are all Protestants, which is interesting.


    Oh, no, I assure you that there are still some Catholics left !  I don't think there are any francophone Protestant Cadiens, either (my accent and enthusiasm are good, but I do not speak the Acadien dialect).

    Quote
    If there is a Catholic Cajun culture I haven't encountered it yet.


    Yes, I have encountered Protestantism, too, particularly of the Evangelical stripe.  In general, I would recommend excluding Texas Cadiens from your analysis, though, since they are, well, in Texas.  There is a vibrant Catholic Cadien culture but, like all of the old Catholics cultures, it has been driven underground and has been fragmented.

    Offline PereJoseph

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    « Reply #14 on: October 08, 2011, 03:49:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    A lot of Catholic Cajuns are charismatics. They have a huge "Steubenville on the Bayou" in Lafayette every year.


    Yes, it's a real shame.  :sad:

    Personally, I blame the notoriously liberal bishops down here.  You can tell the general slant of the so-called bishops by the fact that almost all of the old parishes have been dismantled and replaced with strange 1960s and 1970s structures.  The other problem is that Cadiens in the older generations were not given the kind of formal education that is proclaimed as necessary for the past two centuries.  Thus, when the Americain bishops came down here, they had a rich Catholic culture that still ran on the social patterns of the Middle Ages in contrast to their own XXth century social liberalism and neo-Thomistic and proto-modernistic formation.  When the oil industry came in here in force, all of those who moved away from their old patriarchal clan domains into the cities along the railroad and I-10 took in the episcopal propaganda as freely as they took in their televisions (pumping filth and lies into their homes) and their paychecks (earned from industries destroying the socio-proprietal fabric of the region and profiting from pumping filth into nature).

    Quote
    Southern Catholics are ironically political conservatives yet theological liberals. Their bishops and priests are notoriously lib in the 60's sense of the word. They are still trapped in the 60's preaching on social issues relevant to the 60's. The religious education is crap. EWTN, though not 100% Traditional, is one small bastion of conservative NO Catholicism down there. And it is attacked relentlessly by lib priests in the area.

    Southern Catholics have completely assimilated to modern southern culture and are almost indistinguishable from their Protestant brethren in everything except what church they attend on Sunday.


    I would say that that is all generally true, excepting the content of my other posts.  And, as for being "political conservatives," that means nothing in a US context, since Trotskyite international revolutionaries who believe in mass-industrialisation and usury are given the label "conservative," which in itself is not a very valuable or helpful descriptor anyway.

    Quote
    That said, at least the South is more socially conservative, though that is eroding due to internet, TV, music etc. You won't find the extreme liberal universities down there, but they are slowly becoming moderately liberal. The South is like the north 40 years ago. They are being corrupted but more slowly. At least in the North it seems there are small clusters of hardcore Trads in a sea of liberalism.


    True, but those "hardcore" clusters are themselves from a fragmented culture and are at great pains to put together any kind of integral Catholic culture themselves; they don't have the resources or equipment for it, and starting from scratch is a long, hard road, especially when you are integrated into an anti-Christ economy and socio-political system.  In general, I think we can all agree that things are not good these days !