Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: TraceG on April 11, 2012, 08:04:28 PM
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Everything I have read or listened to on courtship says that the individuals involved should court multiple people. That can be such a tough effort. I live approx 4 hours away from a large catholic population and even then most in that area (cincy) know each other. It seems to me that it is rude so to speak to court multiple girls at the same time for the purpose of later marriage. I actually know more catholics in the Cincy area than Louisville, go figure.
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It seems to me that it is rude so to speak to court multiple girls at the same time for the purpose of later marriage.
There's nothing wrong with dating multiple gals, unless you are already in a relationship with one.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
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Everything I have read or listened to on courtship says that the individuals involved should court multiple people. That can be such a tough effort. I live approx 4 hours away from a large catholic population and even then most in that area (cincy) know each other. It seems to me that it is rude so to speak to court multiple girls at the same time for the purpose of later marriage. I actually know more catholics in the Cincy area than Louisville, go figure.
Yes, they all know each other. And they're all in competition with each other. That can be good for you, or bad, depending on the circuмstances. Don't alert the queen bees to anything you're doing. Don't ever confide anything important to these girls under the mistaken impression that they won't be reporting everything you say to their circle.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
Maybe it would be better if your kind went back across the border.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
I can't move right now.
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You also have to ask yourself if you want to subject your family and reputation at the mercy of a clique of gossips whom the priests are mainly interested in pleasing. Pleasing the worst offenders, generally.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
Maybe it would be better if your kind went back across the border.
I actually like that idea. We'd have to build a fence for the Cajuns next door though. Care to help?
And I was being serious. You think Miss Trad America is just going to come knock on the door just because they want her to? You can't properly meet and connect with people at the distances they are talking about.
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And I was being serious. You think Miss Trad America is just going to come knock on the door just because they want her to?
I never said that would happen.
You can't properly meet and connect with people at the distances they are talking about.
Again, I can't move right now. I'd like to, but cannot.
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And I was being serious.
Telling men to move for the sake of "trad" (chapel clique girls) women. Seriously bad advice.
You think Miss Trad America
Yeah they all think they're special.
is just going to come knock on the door just because they want her to?
It depends on what they want. If they really want Catholic marriage, and not to play games, and they like a man, they will be attentive.
You can't properly meet and connect with people at the distances they are talking about.
I do think it can take time to pique their interest. I'm not sure it's really a good thing to be doing necessarily. Because you might end up with one.
@TraceG
Best to not tell anyone anything about yourself. And to get them alone, and not try to meet more than one at a time, because once you get one mad at you they'll do what they can to sabotage you.
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And I was being serious. You think Miss Trad America is just going to come knock on the door just because they want her to?
I never said that would happen.
You can't properly meet and connect with people at the distances they are talking about.
Again, I can't move right now. I'd like to, but cannot.
I wasn't talking to you, silly. :smirk:
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Many of the Trad chapel girls in Cincinnati go to drinking parties hosted by parents, where they get smashed drunk with each other. This with the approval of their parents. They are TRINOs. Trads In Name Only.
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Everything I have read or listened to on courtship says that the individuals involved should court multiple people. That can be such a tough effort. I live approx 4 hours away from a large catholic population and even then most in that area (cincy) know each other. It seems to me that it is rude so to speak to court multiple girls at the same time for the purpose of later marriage. I actually know more catholics in the Cincy area than Louisville, go figure.
I don't think you're supposed to court them at the same time. I would break up with a man if he was seeing other women while he was also seeing me!
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Many of the Trad chapel girls in Cincinnati go to drinking parties hosted by parents, where they get smashed drunk with each other. This with the approval of their parents. They are TRINOs. Trads In Name Only.
Considering your bad habit of making generalizations, why don't we let TraceG judge for himself weather or not that is true ( should he decide to go up there)?
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Considering your bad habit of making generalizations, why don't we let TraceG judge for himself weather or not that is true ( should he decide to go up there)?
I didn't say they all did. I said many of them do. I know it for a fact. So any Catholic man has to ask himself seriously, whether or not girls who get smashed drunk on saturday night but dress in long skirts on Sunday morning really have a traditional upbringing. There are undoubtedly some good girls in the area. I can PM you the names of those I think might be good or bad, if I know them. That's what they do to us. That's what we should do to them. More is at risk for a Catholic man than for a tepid woman from a chapel clique.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
Maybe it would be better if your kind went back across the border.
That was just wrong. CS's family are not illegal Mexican immigrants, as you imply.
In fact, he's half-Austrian, which makes you sound very foolish.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
Maybe it would be better if your kind went back across the border.
That was just wrong. CS's family are not illegal Mexican immigrants, as you imply.
In fact, he's half-Austrian, which makes you sound very foolish.
Is it wrong to tell men to move with a mocking smilie?
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I don't think you're supposed to court them at the same time. I would break up with a man if he was seeing other women while he was also seeing me!
If he were your boyfriend, or you had just met him for dinner about 4 times?
I'm not talking about having multiple girl friends/relationships, because that is obviously wrong! I'm talking about simply meeting multiple people at a time. I mean, what kind of bond do you have with someone you've been taking out to dinner a few times? They're a stranger! What loyalty do you owe them?! You're simply trying to get to know them better to see if they are a potential match. Your just shopping around. There's nothing wrong with having a number of potential suitors to choose from. Either they match or they don't, and if they don't, and you don't establish a relationship with them, you get rid of them, and you move on to the next round.
FYI, women do this ALL the time, and nobody makes a big deal out of it.
Getting sleepy. Back tomorrow if work allows.
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Is it wrong to tell men to move with a mocking smilie?
Thanks for pointing this out.
I actually would like to move, but can't for several reasons. I'd love to have access to a Trad chapel. Where I am, all I have are four Bogus Ordo parishes (all extremely liberal).
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Correction: three Bogus Ordo parishes.
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Considering the scarcity of suitable candidates, is worrying about how many you can court at once really all that big of a question?
I doubt the advice to court more than one person at a time was directed at a Traditional Catholic audience.
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You guys should be nice to CS as his lovely sister turns 18 today. :popcorn:
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Considering the scarcity of suitable candidates, is worrying about how many you can court at once really all that big of a question?
I doubt the advice to court more than one person at a time was directed at a Traditional Catholic audience.
Are you going to tell young women not to receive more than one suitor at a time?
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Considering the scarcity of suitable candidates, is worrying about how many you can court at once really all that big of a question?
I doubt the advice to court more than one person at a time was directed at a Traditional Catholic audience.
Are you going to tell young women not to receive more than one suitor at a time?
My comment goes both ways.
And, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do so--I really don't know--only that with the limited number of choices, anyone would be hard pressed to find more than a few good options ever, much less at the same time.
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My comment goes both ways.
The problem is that men will be shamed into courting one, while women won't feel any shame at all about receiving more than one suitor.
And, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do so--I really don't know--only that with the limited number of choices, anyone would be hard pressed to find more than a few good options ever, much less at the same time.
It obviously would be wrong if one side gives the other serious reason to hope in order to keep them dangling. It is usually men who are led on more than women.
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Courtship is a human construct. How people go about deciding who is or who isn't suitable as a lifelong spouse is really so varied between cultures, and as far as I know Christianity does not dictate how this should occur (it only dictates what should not occur). What is wrong with unmarried men and women, boys and girls just being friends and having the trust of conducting themselves with decency in each other's company? The way a person interacts and 'courts' will depend very much on his or her personality and cultural style.
If we are talking about whether a male and female who have declared their love for each other should be open to other romantic encounters, then this is clearly unacceptable as it is a deception. These couples ought to be aware that they are entering a serious phase of life, the consequences of which might well be lifelong.
However if 'courting' is mere flirting, whether formal (through dates) or more casually, then it's obvious this is part of the broader game of human interaction and falls into a different moral category.
(fingers crossed cathinfo will let me post! Edit: it did.. whew!)
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I even here see people not understanding the difference between courtship vs dating. At least it seems that way.
I don't doubt what Tel said about drinking parties up there I have already noticed the trad in name only. I avoid those people. Discernment is a blessing for sure.
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I have already noticed the trad in name only. I avoid those people. Discernment is a blessing for sure.
TraceG- Do you think there is such thing as the opposite of a 'trad in name only'? Not an actual, normal, balanced trad, but the actual complete opposite, so that it is so opposite, it bypasses being a normal trad, though still tries to act like one, but is simply another extreme. Think of the Jansenists who might be thought of when compared with the Modernists. We don't become Jansenists, to counteract Modernism. We remain as we are; balanced, normal, logical, charitable.
Anyways, these are the people you must also watch out for. Those who are too quick to judge and generalize other people's actions and go out the way to find other's faults. Watch out for those looking to settle personal quarrel's on this forum, they may seduce you into their unhealthy anti-Catholic mentality. Finding a spouse is a spiritual matter as much as a logical one. These types of people will never mention spiritual things when discussing these issues- ever.
Telesphorous is this type of person. He doesn't have the second highest ignore count for no reason. Take it with a grain of salt.
Lets not judge who we think to be trads or not; remember, it is a conversion process for most people. Most are not born into the Truth but come here form the NO, or from other religions entirely, or from none at all. Good luck finding a girl. If a girl isn't wearing something as modest as she should, before you brush her off and are swept into unintended perpetual bachelorhood, as others here seem to be on the path of, see if you can speak with her, and see how willing she is to hear what is right and wrong. See if she is willing to change her ways. If not, move on; if so, you should continue to court her if you and she please.
And a bit of advice in finding one might be to try a novena and ask our Lady to find you the right girl.
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Think of the Jansenists who might be thought of when compared with the Modernists. We don't become Jansenists,
Whoa, now I'm accused of Jansenism. Only fake Catholics would get their children smashed drunk without any shame.
A lot is at stake in choosing a wife. Catholic men need to not be fooled by the Sunday morning long skirt long hair act. One should never allow "chivalrous" "hispanics", with their extraordinary double standards for morality (what good for them is bad for you) to get away with their insufferable shaming and dishonest smearing.
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I agree with tele that he should take his time and choose very carefully indeed.
He is a man who knows what he wants and I think unless he gets what he wants he won't be a happy camper.
Better unhappily single than unhappily married.
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I agree with tele that he should take his time and choose very carefully indeed.
He is a man who knows what he wants and I think unless he gets what he wants he won't be a happy camper.
Better unhappily single than unhappily married.
I don't really care about Tele finding a woman or not right now, he obviously needs to focus on other things first. I do care about others here who get traped into his misogynistic attitude that is so infectious. Battling feminism and its evils is good. But you don't need to become a misogynistic to do so.
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Jansenism, misogyny, these are just labels that people at grasping at straws pin to people.
They want to tie you down to one those girls, while keeping you blind to their faults, without any real authority or recourse if things go wrong, so you can contribute collection plate money. At the same time they will behave in a merciless manner towards men who don't meet their criteria. They care more about control than they do about morality. Prospective Christian husbands aren't fools and slaves. However, it would seem that many in these chapels treat them that way.
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Traditional Catholicism will go on suffering from cultural problems whilst it remains a society of people who are united for a cause other than simply living the Christian life. While there is mostly reactionary thinking and endless comparison with the surrounding Modernism and Hedonism that prevails in the world, and not a relaxed approach to life that is in comfortable harmony with Catholic morality and theology, our Traditional Catholic communities will continue to be plagued with disgruntled people or people who are trying so hard to do the right thing that they overdo it and alienate each other.
This is not a criticism, but an unavoidable fact. It will continue until the world goes through its various convulsions and revolutions and finally makes a trend back towards God, at which point the role of Traditional Catholics will be that of rebuilding society and spreading true civilization and culture.
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While there is mostly reactionary thinking and endless comparison with the surrounding Modernism and Hedonism that prevails in the world, and not a relaxed approach to life that is in comfortable harmony with Catholic morality and theology
That is an absurd statement.
No, the problems will remain so long as people make up their own religion that isn't Catholic. Calling people Jansenists for not approving of parents getting their daughters drunk. Treating a man as a predator for wanting to speak with a girl. Calling men misogynists for wanting to marry innocent girls.
In my experience, the people who are actually traditionally Catholic are not the problem. The people who are Feeneyites, laxists, Republicans, liberalizers, cultish, etc, are the problem.
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Traditional Catholicism will go on suffering from cultural problems whilst it remains a society of people who are united for a cause other than simply living the Christian life. While there is mostly reactionary thinking and endless comparison with the surrounding Modernism and Hedonism that prevails in the world, and not a relaxed approach to life that is in comfortable harmony with Catholic morality and theology, our Traditional Catholic communities will continue to be plagued with disgruntled people or people who are trying so hard to do the right thing that they overdo it and alienate each other.
This is true Maizar. Something I've come to realize in my spiritual life, an about the Church in general in everything I've ever learned about it, is that there is a fine balance to everything. That's because She is perfect. She doesn't need to be 'reactionary', or over-reactionary, in dealing with liberality, and has condemned that mentality quite often.
I like how you say 'relaxed'. Its true. This doesn't mean one ought be relaxed in the sense of 'letting go' and being indifferent to sin. It means that we should be able to recognize modernism, liberality, and indifference to sin as so many in this world are open to and engage in, yet we need not let it affect us so much as to destroy our spiritual life
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Being so preoccupied with a singular issue, going so far as to do extensive searches of other people to see if you can catch them engaging in less than noble behavior, expecting payment for injustices done to one, or obsessing over the flaws of one or another gender is not what being a Catholic is about. Misery loves company, as the saying goes; this type of spiritual misery, spiritual cancer, is infectious. Unformed minds or those who may be dealing with scruples and other spiritual combats are easily swayed by such illogical talk. It is not innocent and is quite malicious and is the type of attitude that is pharisees engage in and since its so heavily rooted in sin, is the hardest error to correct someone of.
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Being so preoccupied with a singular issue, going so far as to do extensive searches of other people to see if you can catch them engaging in less than noble behavior
Uh, no. I wasn't searching for their bad behavior. Wrong. Members of the family, pretending to be my friend, posted about the party and the next day one member of the family said he couldn't remember where he was the night before.
I didn't come across the pictures searching for pictures of the party.
So you make rash assumptions. And rash and false accusations. But that's not new for you, or Raoul, etc.
, expecting payment for injustices done to one,
You need to apologize to say that I was searching for pictures of their bad behavior.
I pointed it out a long time before without any pictures, and people here defended drinking parties, said I was "making it up" (which they always do - these cultish people do - even the moment the pictures came down wallflower started denying the girls were really drunk) because it's obvious that many Catholics are departing from the Faith on this issue, even some of the ostensibly most "traditional." Not that you care about that. You'd rather BS about calling me a Jansenist, BS about me supposedly looking up pictures to find wrong-doing, which I wasn't doing.
Not that I expect an apology. You owe it though.
or obsessing over the flaws of one or another gender
The word is sex. The fact that women are a certain way isn't what really bothers me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy about Original Sin. Which was the sin of Eve, not just Adam, though you'd never think so talking to a typical "Trad" Catholic these days. The problem is that Catholics rake other Catholics over the coals for holding positions like St. Thomas Aquinas, for example, that girls are free to marry who they want, and that the concupiscence of women is stronger than that of men, that their adultery in marriage is more grievous.
is not what being a Catholic is about.
Being Catholic means following the Catholic religion. Which you and the feminist Trads, and the hispanics and their cultural Catholicism, don't want to do
Misery loves company, as the saying goes; this type of spiritual misery, spiritual cancer, is infectious. Unformed minds or those who may be dealing with scruples and other spiritual combats are easily swayed by such illogical talk.
Illogical talk? Scruples? I hope no one thinks they are being Jansenist by being against drunkenness. I hope no one feels guilty for wanting to marry a younger woman, or wanting to marry a virgin. YOU'RE the one who is illogical.
It is not innocent and is quite malicious and is the type of attitude that is pharisees engage in and since its so heavily rooted in sin, is the hardest error to correct someone of.
You're the pharisee bud. You've been that way on this since the beginning.
First calling it creepy to like a girl younger than me, now calling it "Jansenism" to warn people about these chapel clique girls and the fact that their parents spoil them rotten and even corrupt them with alcohol under their own roof.
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My comment goes both ways.
And, I'm not saying it's right or wrong to do so--I really don't know--only that with the limited number of choices, anyone would be hard pressed to find more than a few good options ever, much less at the same time.
Yes, I wanted to point that out. But I don't think that's a problem if you live in an area where you have several sizable chapels within driving distance.
As for being "good options", you really won't know until you go out with them and get to know them better. Remember, they're strangers.
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I think I'll stick to courting one at a time, if I can even find one to court.
:laugh1:
Well if it's such a big deal to yall, I think yall should move.
Maybe it would be better if your kind went back across the border.
That was just wrong. CS's family are not illegal Mexican immigrants, as you imply.
In fact, he's half-Austrian, which makes you sound very foolish.
Is it wrong to tell men to move with a mocking smilie?
What do you mean "mocking"? I was just having a good-natured laugh because the solution is so simple and obvious.
If the mountain ain't comin to you, you should probably go to the mountain (as difficult as it may be).
I think your just looking for a reason to get angry with me, because I don't understand why that suggestion would be offensive.
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What do you mean "mocking"? I was just having a good-natured laugh because the solution is so simple and obvious.
If the mountain ain't comin to you, you should probably go to the mountain (as difficult as it may be).
I find it offensive, because you don't take into consideration that some people (such as myself) can't move.
In the meantime, I don't sit back and go "I hope the right girl will come looking for me". I do pray that, if it is God's Will for me to marry, He will introduce me to the right woman.
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What do you mean "mocking"? I was just having a good-natured laugh because the solution is so simple and obvious.
If the mountain ain't comin to you, you should probably go to the mountain (as difficult as it may be).
I find it offensive, because you don't take into consideration that some people (such as myself) can't move.
In the meantime, I don't sit back and go "I hope the right girl will come looking for me". I do pray that, if it is God's Will for me to marry, He will introduce me to the right woman.
Well you get offended by everything, so what of it? :rolleyes:
But anyway...
Can't move? Okay then, work towards making it happen (if it benefit's you later on). Obviously you have other bigger issues to tackle right now, since they're keeping you from receiving the sacraments, but if your gonna tell me anything, don't be saying to me "I can't!", tell me "I'm workin on it".
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What do you mean "mocking"? I was just having a good-natured laugh because the solution is so simple and obvious.
If the mountain ain't comin to you, you should probably go to the mountain (as difficult as it may be).
I find it offensive, because you don't take into consideration that some people (such as myself) can't move.
In the meantime, I don't sit back and go "I hope the right girl will come looking for me". I do pray that, if it is God's Will for me to marry, He will introduce me to the right woman.
I can assure you, that if you pray with a sincere heart, you will know God's Will. It's all you need to do, so pray and after that don't worry about it but work on making yourself into the best person you can be so that, when your answer comes, you will be ready for your vocation.
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Well you get offended by everything, so what of it?
Um, right. :laugh1:
Can't move? Okay then, work towards making it happen (if it benefit's you later on).
There is nothing I can do right now. You don't know the situation I am in.
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While there is mostly reactionary thinking and endless comparison with the surrounding Modernism and Hedonism that prevails in the world, and not a relaxed approach to life that is in comfortable harmony with Catholic morality and theology
That is an absurd statement.
No, the problems will remain so long as people make up their own religion that isn't Catholic. Calling people Jansenists for not approving of parents getting their daughters drunk. Treating a man as a predator for wanting to speak with a girl. Calling men misogynists for wanting to marry innocent girls.
In my experience, the people who are actually traditionally Catholic are not the problem. The people who are Feeneyites, laxists, Republicans, liberalizers, cultish, etc, are the problem.
Talking excessively about how bad other people are, or how much the world is damned to Hell is often just a way to distract ourselves from our own failings. It's a bit of a trap I fall into myself I think.
So perhaps you are judging people too harshly, including yourself. Do you think that people in the Traditional Catholic communities are unaware that there is an 'easier path' that is accepted by the world, with its contraception and abortion, TV entertainment, secret societies to help you when you are inept and lack merit, and the material benefits that come from cheating in life? It is fair to assume that each and every one of them is there because he or she is trying to enter through the narrow gate. Many have splinters in their eyes, but what else is new? They are human! Forgive them, pray for them and think charitably about them, and worry first about your own Judgment and remind yourself daily of the beatitudes. If you want to correct others, then do it with care, little by little, and primarily through the example of your life.
You, probably better than most, know that being a Catholic is not easy. I too have witnessed and even been the victim of my fair share of calumny, exclusion, lies and hypocrisy amongst Catholics, even to the point where it has led to despair, death and ruin in people close to me, but on reflection even those people who were such sinners had the courage not to just walk out of the Church but stayed and went to confession and, it appears, are actually trying to amend their lives. I can't say I like those people, but I recognize that they have faith and I pray for them. I can never forget some of the things they have done, but I can at least forgive them. I do agree with your sentiments that we should be cautious and protect our hearts so that we do not fall into despair, but if you are so bitter about what has happened to you, then maybe you should pray for wisdom, humility and courage so that you might understand yourself better, rather than always point the finger. :cheers:
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Talking excessively about how bad other people are, or how much the world is damned to Hell is often just a way to distract ourselves from our own failings. It's a bit of a trap I fall into myself I think.
Catholics who approve of drunkenness in their own children aren't real Catholics. That's just a fact. You're not addressing what I'm saying, but personally attacking me. That's how these people operate. Whenever they get called on their publicly scandalous behavior, they start attacking.
So perhaps you are judging people too harshly, including yourself. Do you think that people in the Traditional Catholic communities are unaware that there is an 'easier path' that is accepted by the world, with its contraception and abortion, TV entertainment, secret societies to help you when you are inept and lack merit, and the material benefits that come from cheating in life? It is fair to assume that each and every one of them is there because he or she is trying to enter through the narrow gate.
No it is not fair to assume that at all. That's the problem. For many of these people Catholic "tradition" is just a social club and a cult which allows them to throw their weight around.
, but if you are so bitter about what has happened to you, then maybe you should pray for wisdom, humility and courage so that you might understand yourself better, rather than always point the finger. :cheers:
The problem Maizar, is that when a problem is pointed out, they're the ones who start making BS excuses like calling it "jansenism" and "misogyny" - and then they criticize the person pointing out the problem.
When you say the problem is Trad Catholics are disgruntled and unable to take a "relaxed" approach to life, that's not the truth. The problem is that most of these people don't really want Catholic Tradition.
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Talking excessively about how bad other people are, or how much the world is damned to Hell is often just a way to distract ourselves from our own failings. It's a bit of a trap I fall into myself I think.
Catholics who approve of drunkenness in their own children aren't real Catholics. That's just a fact. You're not addressing what I'm saying, but personally attacking me. That's how these people operate. Whenever they get called on their publicly scandalous behavior, they start attacking.
So perhaps you are judging people too harshly, including yourself. Do you think that people in the Traditional Catholic communities are unaware that there is an 'easier path' that is accepted by the world, with its contraception and abortion, TV entertainment, secret societies to help you when you are inept and lack merit, and the material benefits that come from cheating in life? It is fair to assume that each and every one of them is there because he or she is trying to enter through the narrow gate.
No it is not fair to assume that at all. That's the problem. For many of these people Catholic "tradition" is just a social club and a cult which allows them to throw their weight around.
, but if you are so bitter about what has happened to you, then maybe you should pray for wisdom, humility and courage so that you might understand yourself better, rather than always point the finger. :cheers:
The problem Maizar, is that when a problem is pointed out, they're the ones who start making BS excuses like calling it "jansenism" and "misogyny" - and then they criticize the person pointing out the problem.
When you say the problem is Trad Catholics are disgruntled and unable to take a "relaxed" approach to life, that's not the truth. The problem is that most of these people don't really want Catholic Tradition.
They are still Catholics, because they are baptized. Sure they are sinners, but so are you and I. Don't pretend you can excommunicate people from your armchair! And don't assume they have not been in a confessional and done their best to live in a state of grace.
If you are called names, turn the other cheek. What did they call Jesus? Unlike us He was perfect, innocent, and wrongly condemned, yet still he went up the mountain embracing the Cross after having been tortured, taking all the spittle, the lashings, the derision and then was crucified before the mocking crowd. He even asked forgiveness for those who murdered him!
I disagree about what you say about people's intentions. You might be right about the state of their souls, but you are not right to judge them. It's not our job. Edit: the person who should deal with those people is the priest. Obviously you think the priest has failed, but nonetheless it is the priest's problem. If you have a problem with the priest, talk to his bishop.
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They are still Catholics, because they are baptized.
It is heretical to approve of drunkenness. It is publicly scandalous conduct, that needs to be called out and stamped out, because if isn't others will think Catholicism approves of drunkenness.
Sure they are sinners, but so are you and I. Don't pretend you can excommunicate people from your armchair! And don't assume they have not been in a confessional and done their best to live in a state of grace.
I was simply stating a fact: people who approve of drunkenness in their children are departing from the Faith. If you can't accept that, you can't accept Catholic teaching.
If you are called names, turn the other cheek. What did they call Jesus? Unlike us He was perfect, innocent, and wrongly condemned, yet still he went up the mountain embracing the Cross after having been tortured, taking all the spittle, the lashings, the derision and then was crucified before the mocking crowd. He even asked forgiveness for those who murdered him!
That's typical pharisaism. You respond to me with personal attack, and then tell me to turn the other cheek. People lie, slander, hound people out of church, then the pharisaic priests say to "accept injustice" when they are the one's committing the injustice.
Priests who look the other way and hand out dispensations for parents to get their children drunk need to be held to account. Priests who support lying and hounding people out of church need to be held to account. They are committing and aggravating the public scandal of their conduct every day, and it's only going to get worse for these wretched priests who are selling out the religion.
I disagree about what you say about people's intentions. You might be right about the state of their souls, but you are not right to judge them. It's not our job.
I didn't judge the state of anyone's soul.
You're attitude of "lighten up" doesn't cut it. These people engage in publicly scandalous behavior with the indulgence of the priests. The problem with Traditional Catholicism isn't that people are in conflict with the modernists and can't "lighten up." The problem is that most Trads and most priests don't want real Tradition.
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Is there a single thread anywhere on this forum that makes it to its fifth page without descending into acrimony?
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Talking excessively about how bad other people are, or how much the world is damned to Hell is often just a way to distract ourselves from our own failings. It's a bit of a trap I fall into myself I think.
This is true to an extent, but there is a difference between unjustly criticizing others (i.e judging their thoughts and motives) and justly criticizing where criticism is due. If the Saints were all on earth today, I don't think they would look at the crisis in the Church, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, the affects of feminism, and the overall flood of sin and keep their peace about it. They would have some harsh yet completely true criticisms about them. That doesn't mean they would be distracted from their own failings. They were all humble, but they still spoke out against evil.
They are still Catholics, because they are baptized.
Not true. Daegus, Tele, and I discussed this with another forum user (Jamie) about 8 months ago. It leaves a mark on their soul that cannot be erased no matter what, yes. But just because you are baptized does not mean you are gauranteed to be a member of the Church forever. If you get baptized and then go and commit heresy, you are no longer a member of the Church.
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Talking excessively about how bad other people are, or how much the world is damned to Hell is often just a way to distract ourselves from our own failings. It's a bit of a trap I fall into myself I think.
This is true to an extent, but there is a difference between unjustly criticizing others (i.e judging their thoughts and motives) and justly criticizing where criticism is due. If the Saints were all on earth today, I don't think they would look at the crisis in the Church, the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr, the affects of feminism, and the overall flood of sin and keep their peace about it. They would have some harsh yet completely true criticisms about them. That doesn't mean they would be distracted from their own failings. They were all humble, but they still spoke out against evil.
They are still Catholics, because they are baptized.
Not true. Daegus, Tele, and I discussed this with another forum user (Jamie) about 8 months ago. It leaves a mark on their soul that cannot be erased no matter what, yes. But just because you are baptized does not mean you are gauranteed to be a member of the Church forever. If you get baptized and then go and commit heresy, you are no longer a member of the Church.
Tele: how is imitating Christ pharisaic? I am not telling you to be a doormat but to have courage! I apologize if you see this as a personal attack.
Spiritus: Of course, Catholicism is ultimately Sainthood, but heresy is obstinacy in error, and that is a big call to make by a member of the laity against other members of the laity who attend Catholic Mass (I assume) practically every Sunday.
The saints, as far as I can tell, did not go around telling everybody else how such and such is a so and so. Nor did Christ. I won't quote the Bible now but how to deal with these problems is all in there.
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Spiritus: Of course, Catholicism is ultimately Sainthood, but heresy is obstinacy in error, and that is a big call to make by a member of the laity against other members of the laity who attend Catholic Mass (I assume) practically every Sunday.
Not necessarily. If they are open in their heretical views, you can accuse them of heresy. How often they attend Mass would be irrelevant in any such case.
The saints, as far as I can tell, did not go around telling everybody else how such and such is a so and so. Nor did Christ. I won't quote the Bible now but how to deal with these problems is all in there.
True, but they corrected people with charity. They also spoke the truth at all times, not caring what others thought of them.
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Spiritus: Of course, Catholicism is ultimately Sainthood, but heresy is obstinacy in error, and that is a big call to make by a member of the laity against other members of the laity who attend Catholic Mass (I assume) practically every Sunday.
Not necessarily. If they are open in their heretical views, you can accuse them of heresy. How often they attend Mass would be irrelevant in any such case.
Then one should accuse them of heresy to their faces, and not on a public forum on the Internet for all to see. I know no names have been named, but it is still inappropriate in my opinion.
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Then one should accuse them of heresy to their faces, and not on a public forum on the Internet for all to see. I know no names have been named, but it is still inappropriate in my opinion.
They have behaved in a publicly scandalous way. You have no way of knowing what I've said about it to them.
So far what I've seen is the a refusal to admit that drunken parties are wrong by the people here. People who claim to be Catholics.
Catholic men need to be warned about the reality. What the priests and parents really authorize behind the traditional window dressing. Every Sunday morning the girls wear their long skirts and mantillas, but that has little to do with the reality of these chapels.
Catholic men need to be warned, not encouraged to recklessly tie themselves down to dangerously spoiled young women in these chapel cliques.
The response is to pretend these girls are little angels, "Miss Trad America" - etc, you need to move just have a shot with them, etc.