Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Tradman on March 17, 2022, 09:41:41 AM
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I watched a couple of Taylor Marshall videos on the subject of Fatima and Francis' upcoming consecration. TM is repeatedly saying in two separate videos that Sister Lucy says in 1936 "Pray very much for the Holy Father, he will do the consecration of Russia but it will be too late. Nevertheless the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her."
I've heard the quote that says it will be late, but never heard the quote that said "too late". Apparently, Robert Sungenis is also pushing this "too late" thing.
If Our Lord's follow up message about the Consecration will be "too late", will anyone want to bother?
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Clearly a true consecration will be too late as the errors of Russia have already spread.
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Clearly a true consecration will be too late as the errors of Russia have already spread.
For sure, but the Consecration is supposed to bring peace to the world and "too late" suggests that the promise won't be fulfilled.
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"Late" or "too late" is offset by Our Lady's consistent message that "In the end, My Immaculate Heart will Triumph." I think late/too late relates to Her other temporal warnings - i.e. the world will be infected by communism, the good will be martyred, etc. In other words, Fatima offered the world peace if Russia was consecrated. If such is delayed, then there will be consequences. "Too late" means, in my opinion, too late to avoid suffering, heartache, and agony, which could've been avoided if the Pope had done the consecration 90 years ago, back in the 1930s.
Similar to a person who puts off their conversion of life until they are old. Assuming God grants them such graces, they can still get to heaven but they are going to suffer in Purgatory a LOT longer than if they had straightened their life out when young.
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"Late" or "too late" is offset by Our Lady's consistent message that "In the end, My Immaculate Heart will Triumph." I think late/too late relates to Her other temporal warnings - i.e. the world will be infected by communism, the good will be martyred, etc. In other words, Fatima offered the world peace if Russia was consecrated. If such is delayed, then there will be consequences. "Too late" means, in my opinion, too late to avoid suffering, heartache, and agony, which could've been avoided if the Pope had done the consecration 90 years ago, back in the 1930s.
Similar to a person who puts off their conversion of life until they are old. Assuming God grants them such graces, they can still get to heaven but they are going to suffer in Purgatory a LOT longer than if they had straightened their life out when young.
I don't have a problem with "late", or even "too late", but I've never heard "too late" in that quote before. It's kind of like "faith alone" in scripture. Words matter.
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Yeah, “too late” implies that Our Lady won’t triumph. That can’t be the correct translation.
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Douay-Rheims Bible (https://biblehub.com/drbc/2_chronicles/7.htm)
And my people, upon whom my name is called, being converted, shall make supplication to me, and seek out my face, and do penance for their most wicked ways: then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sins and will heal their land.
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The following is taken from Frere Michel's, The Whole Truth About Fatima, Volume 2, p. 464:
THE REQUEST FOR THE CONSECRATION OF RUSSIA
«Then Our Lady said to me: “The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means.”
«“So numerous are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I come to ask for reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.”
«I gave an account of this to my confessor, who ordered me to write what Our Lord willed to be done.»
LATER ON, OUR LORD COMPLAINS
«Later on, by means of an interior communication, Our Lord said to me, complaining: “They did not want to heed My request!... Like the King of France they will repent and do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread its errors throughout the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church: the Holy Father will have much to suffer.”»
Later in the same Volume, Our Lord says:
“Make it known to My ministers that, given they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My request, they will follow him into misfortune. It will never be too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary.”
It's not too late.
I have also heard that the Pope intends to perform the consecration in union with all the bishops of the world. I am waiting for confirmation of this.
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I have also heard that the Pope intends to perform the consecration in union with all the bishops of the world. I am waiting for confirmation of this.
Confirmed. The collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as requested by Our Lady of Fatima, will take place next Friday, March 25, at 5:00PM Rome time.
APOSTOLIC NUNCIATURE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
17 March 2022
URGENT
Prot. N. 16053/22
Your Excellency,
In the context of the tragic events unfolding in Ukraine, the Holy Father, Pope
Francis will lead an Act of Consecration of Russia and Ukraine to the Immaculate Heart
of Mary on the Feast of the Annunciation, March 25th next.
The Holy Father intends to invite each Bishop, or equivalent in law, together with
his priests, to join in this act of consecration, if possible, at an hour corresponding to 5pm
Rome time. In the coming days, the Holy Father will address a letter of invitation to the
Bishops, enclosing the text of the Prayer of Consecration in the various languages. I write
now, asking you to inform the members of the USCCB and, through them, the priests of
the various dioceses and eparchies of the country, about the Holy Father's invitation.
The same information will be shared with the federal authorities in Washington,
D.C. and with the Diplomatic Corps of this capital. An invitation is being extended to the
members of the same Corps to attend a Mass offered by Cardinal Wilton Gregory,
Archbishop of Washington, at the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate
Conception at 12 noon on Friday, March 25th next.
Grateful for your collaboration, I assure you of my good wishes and remain
Yours sincerely,
Christophe Pierre
Apostolic Nuncio
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Confirmed. The collegial Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, as requested by Our Lady of Fatima, will take place next Friday, March 25, at 5:00PM Rome time.
In the coming days, the Holy Father will address a letter of invitation to the Bishops, enclosing the text of the Prayer of Consecration in the various languages.
It will be interesting to see "the text". Will it clearly request the conversion of Russia to the Catholic Faith?
Given it will be shared with federal authorities and the "Diplomatic Corps", I highly doubt it.
And where is Vigano in all of this? Has he commented at all? Will he join Bergoglio in his "consecration"?
This might be where the rubber meets the road.
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In the coming days, the Holy Father will address a letter of invitation to the Bishops, enclosing the text of the Prayer of Consecration in the various languages.
It will be interesting to see "the text". Will it clearly request the conversion of Russia to the Catholic Faith?
Given it will be shared with federal authorities and the "Diplomatic Corps", I highly doubt it.
I highly doubt it too, but a clear request for the conversion of Russia to the Catholic Faith is not required. All that it is required is the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by the Pope and bishops in union with him, which is what will take place. She will take care of the rest.
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My understanding is that it would be done "late"- not too late. Late meaning that we would not avert any chastisement due us but her Immaculate Heart WILL reign after the consecration.
I think I wrote it on the forum before, but Lucia quoted Christ from an appartition in Rianjo in 1931 and he said "It is never too late to recourse to Jesus and Mary"
Make it known to My ministers, given that they follow the example of the King of France in delaying the execution of My command, they will follow him into misfortune. It is never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary.’
later, through an intimate communication, Our Lord complained to me: ‘They did not wish to heed My request! …Like the King of France they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late. Russia will have already spread its errors in the world, provoking wars and persecutions against the Church. The Holy Father will have much to suffer.’
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This
"It will never be too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary.”
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Thanks, Roman Theo, for the info. One could easily argue that globally, right NOW, is almost too late. The world is one disaster (of a possible many) away from complete chaos.
I’ll continue to pray that this consecration is pleasing to God, in some way. We need His help more than ever.
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The Vision of the Most Holy Trinity and Our Lady of Fatima at Tuy, Spain, June 13, 1929
It was at this time, at the most solemn apparition of the whole series of Fatima apparitions, that Our Lady said to Sister Lucy:
“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order [not to invite] that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to convert it because of this day of prayer and worldwide reparation.”
… Frère Michel de la Sainte Trinité, The Whole Truth About Fatima — Vol. II, p. 555.
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"Too late" merely means that the original consequences of not consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart have already occurred, and, indeed, all of the consequences predicted have already occurred.
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Yeah, “too late” implies that Our Lady won’t triumph. That can’t be the correct translation
I thought the words were "..it will be late,". Obviously for all the people who died in WWII, it is too late and if this plays out like the request Our Lord made to the king of France, it will be too late to avoid certain horrors but in the end Our Lady's heart will triumph.
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Louie Verrecchio's comments regarding the "diplomatic" consecration:
https://akacatholic.com/nuncio-confirms-the-ruse-a-diplomatic-consecration/
The above refers to his previous entry regarding Russia signing off on the "consecration":
https://akacatholic.com/breaking-russia-signed-off-on-march-25-consecration/
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I thought the words were "..it will be late,". Obviously for all the people who died in WWII, it is too late and if this plays out like the request Our Lord made to the king of France, it will be too late to avoid certain horrors but in the end Our Lady's heart will triumph.
You are right on the precise words. I think it is commentators who are using the adverb modifier. But the fact remains, that any consecration now is, indeed, too late.
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It can't be too late when the errors of Russia are still spreading. Not just communism, but occultism, Duginism, and controlled gatekeeping through compromised political groups as well.
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Interesting commentary from Louie Verrecchio:
https://akacatholic.com/nuncio-confirms-the-ruse-a-diplomatic-consecration/
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I watched a couple of Taylor Marshall videos on the subject of Fatima and Francis' upcoming consecration. TM is repeatedly saying in two separate videos that Sister Lucy says in 1936 "Pray very much for the Holy Father, he will do the consecration of Russia but it will be too late. Nevertheless the Immaculate Heart of Mary will save Russia. It has been entrusted to Her."
I've heard the quote that says it will be late, but never heard the quote that said "too late". Apparently, Robert Sungenis is also pushing this "too late" thing.
If Our Lord's follow up message about the Consecration will be "too late", will anyone want to bother?
It says Russia will be saved in the very next sentence, so obviously it isn't referring to that. It's simply saying it'll be too late to avoid the errors of Russia spreading.
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“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to convert it because of this day of prayer and worldwide reparation."
Has anyone heard anything about worldwide reparation? Like fasting? Like public Rosaries?
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I've heard the quote that says it will be late, but never heard the quote that said "too late". Apparently, Robert Sungenis is also pushing this "too late" thing.
Apparently, you are referring to a recently published 118 page book by Sungenis, Fatima Fulfilled But Still Foreboding. Sungenis discusses this work in the below video. His basic contention is that the Consecration was done by Pius XII, but in an imperfect manner (including the 1952 wording "peoples of Russia" rather than simply "Russia") and with consequently imperfect results and that as far as the Consecration goes it is history, although the full mystery (i.e., the 3rd Secret) of Fatima is still foreboding.
I am of the impression that most trads who have weighed in on the correctness or lack thereof of Sungenis' conclusions regarding Fatima have utterly failed for whatever reason to actually weigh the evidence Sungenis has presented in determining how he arrived at the conclusions he has. I say that because I have never seen or heard them reference it in the detailed way Sungenis has. Rather his conclusions regarding the Consecration seem all too often to be dismissed out of hand because they don't fit the normative trad Fatima narrative, the very narrative which Sungenis wrote extensively about, spoke about, and supported for many years; and the very narrative which he finally came to reject.
https://www.robertsungenis.org/2021/08/the-meaning-of-catholic-fatima.html (https://www.robertsungenis.org/2021/08/the-meaning-of-catholic-fatima.html)
Fatima Fulfilled but Still Foreboding with Dr. Robert Sungenis (http://Fatima Fulfilled but Still Foreboding with Dr. Robert Sungenis)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiY1ebDLE8Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiY1ebDLE8Q)
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According to Fake Sister Lucy ll, the consecration was done by JPll just as Our Lady asked!!!
(So what's this all about, anyway???)
Holy See: The Consecration of Russia has taken place | Marians of the Immaculate Conception (https://www.marian.org/fatima/about/russia.php)
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According to Fake Sister Lucy ll, the consecration was done by JPll just as Our Lady asked!!!
(So what's this all about, anyway???)
Holy See: The Consecration of Russia has taken place | Marians of the Immaculate Conception (https://www.marian.org/fatima/about/russia.php)
Ha, remind me NOT to send them a donation.
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“The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to convert it because of this day of prayer and worldwide reparation."
Has anyone heard anything about worldwide reparation? Like fasting? Like public Rosaries?
I don't know. I think that the notion of "worldwide reparation" refers to the Pope together with all the bishops of the world offering the consecration as the act of reparation.
Nevertheless, it is very clear that Bergoglio is not doing this as an act of reparation for blasphemies against the Immaculate Heart of Mary (which was the intent of the consecration) ... including his own outrageous blasphemies ... but rather for the humanitarian/political purposes of stopping the Russian attack on Ukraine.
[PS: Verrechio says that it's in reparation for Russia's sins against God. That's incorrect. It's in reparation for the world's blasphemies against Our Blessed Mother. Russia is merely God's instrument for chastising the world over it.]
In terms of blasphemies against Our Blessed Mother, Bergoglio is a chief culprit:
https://novusordowatch.org/2019/12/bergoglio-blasphemes-the-immaculate/
God should strike this man down before he has the temerity to make this consecration in reparation for activities that he proudly engages in.
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Will the sedevacantist, sedeplenist and Bennyvacantist bishops do it together with Francis? :laugh1:
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"Too late" merely means that the original consequences of not consecrating Russia to the Immaculate Heart have already occurred, and, indeed, all of the consequences predicted have already occurred.
"Many nations will be annihilated" has not happened yet.
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"Many nations will be annihilated" has not happened yet.
Of course it has happened. Many nations were incorporated into the Soviet Union, and when the emerged after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the only thing that is the same is the name--the countries, as they existed, have been annihilated.