Author Topic: Confessional Hogs (Read 4214 times)

Binechi · « **on:** June 26, 2016, 11:41:07 AM »

A Reader Asks: Why Do Some People Hog Too Much Time
In Confession when Others from Some Distance Are Waiting?"

http://www.traditio.com/comment/com1606.htm

Because of Ignorance These Days of Proper Catholic Practice
Even Among Many Traditional Catholics
Many Do Not Know How a Proper Confession Is Made
The TRADITIO Fathers Review the Proper Practice Here

Dear TRADITIO Fathers:

In our church a certain woman arrives early every week. She is the first to enter the confessional and will spend 25 to 30 minutes in the confessional. Others thus have to be turned away, some of them coming from some distance. The woman explained to a friend that she was not actually confessing at all. She was taking up the time to talk to the priest about her personal, family, and financial issues!

The TRADITIO Fathers Reply.

Such conduct is deplorable, and the priest is guilty as an accomplice in the denial of reasonable access to the Sacrament of Penance when others are turned away in such a case. Because of ignorance these days of proper Catholic practice, even among many traditional Catholics, many do not know how a proper confession is made. Let us review now the proper practice.

According to the Roman Ritual, the penitent is first to make a brief expression of penitence. The suggested form is: Confiteor Deo omnipotenti et tibi, pater, quia peccavi (I confess to Almighty God and to you, Father, that I have sinned). The penitent then indicates the period of time since his last confession, in order that the priest may put the enumeration of sins into a temporal context. Ten lies in a year is quite different from ten lies in a week.

Next the penitent briefly accuses himself of his sins (necessarily mortal, optionally venial). It is not necessary to give lengthy explanations of the circuмstances unless they are required to understand the quality of the sin. For example, "I accuse myself of lying" would not be sufficient if the lie were stated under oath in court, because such a circuмstance would change the quality of the sin (usually a venial sin) to that of a mortal sin. At the end of his confession, the penitent should indicate that he has concluded the enumeration of his sins. A suggested formula is "For these and all the sins of my past life, I asked pardon of God, penance and absolution from you, Father."

A frequent mistake that penitents make is to expatiate in detail on the circuмstances of their sins, often trying to excuse themselves and blaming others in the process. This is quite improper and vitiates the purpose of the confession. The priest may in such a case cut the penitent off for irrelevance. The Sacrament of Penance is not a psychological-couch session. Nor is there any need to say an Act of Contrition in the confessional. The presence of the penitent in the confessional is accepted by the Church as a sufficient outward sign of penitence. The examination of conscience, contrition for sin, and firm purpose of amendment should occur before the confession itself. The penitent should silently listen to the form of the absolution and its associated prayers. It has always seemed to us rude for the penitent to be talking on top of the priest as he is uttering these powerful words of absolution. Would a true Catholic babble on while the Consecration occurs during Holy Mass? Of course not.

Often these days, with access to a traditional priest for Confession being limited, one must be especially considerate of others, some of whom have to travel some distance for confession. What the woman you described was doing is sinful in itself, as she is preventing others from accessing the Sacrament of Penance in order to satisfy her own self-centeredness. If she needs extra-sacramental advice, she should make an appointment with the priest outside of the confessional. We Fathers often hear complaints from those who have traveled long distances to approach the Sacrament, only to be turned away because some prolix person has eaten up all the time. The priest too is culpable for pandering to such inappropriate time-wasting. Moreover, in the case when a penitent legitimately expects to require a lengthy confession, for example a General Confession before reception of a Sacrament such as Matrimony, an appointment should be made so as not to inconvenience others.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2016, 01:33:39 PM »

I agree -- the priest is the guilty one here. He is getting his "social time with women" fix -- a temptation most priests face. There is a certain aspect where it is normal, humanly speaking, for men and women to complete each other and enjoy each other's company.

I am not talking about anything sɛҳuąƖ here, though such indulgences (talking too much to women, especially certain women at length) can lead to problems down the line. Most affairs start out as EMOTIONAL affairs.

The priest and the women are willing to indulge their mutual human desires in this matter, because they both figure it's "innocent enough", being in the confessional and all. There are plenty of people around. But if they dally with this temptation, they will eventually arrange meetings OUTSIDE of the confessional, with a believable pretext of course ("Father, can you bless a statue sometime during the week, if I stop by with it?", "Can you stop by to talk to my son about...")

There are also TONS of women that deal with this temptation -- to get attached to a priest, be blown away by his learning, piety, charm, even good looks -- and they want to talk to him as much as possible. Women are naturally vain and self-centered, just as men incline easily to pride and anger. Again, it starts out as human self-indulgence (pandering to mostly innocent desires springing from human nature) but Original Sin often takes over at some point, and things can get dangerous for both the (usually married) woman and the priest himself.

History is full of cases where this type of thing ended in disaster -- a married woman leaving her husband and family, and running off with a priest (who of course leaves his priesthood as well). This has even happened with SSPX priests! It also happens more often in Latin America. SSPX priests in the USA usually leave to become Sede or Novus Ordo. At least that's what I was told during my seminary days.

And the woman in question doesn't have to be "hot", to use modern parlance. When you are single, you naturally lower your "standards" to match whatever you have available in your daily life. This is human nature, I believe. In the end, a woman is a woman -- they all have feminine nature (as well as pheromones). So the fact that a woman is less than attractive, or over 35, is of no consequence to this particular discussion. Besides, some individuals are more attracted to mental or spiritual attributes anyhow. Some people simply aren't concerned with the physical at all. It's true (even if that doesn't describe you!) The priest is still, humanly speaking, missing that "feminine element" which normally completes a man. Not that a man can't live without a woman, but I believe it would be a lie to say that a women does not complete a man. A woman does a lot more for a man than merely A) give him an outlet for his sɛҳuąƖ desire, B) bear him children, and C) order the domestic household. It goes beyond that.

Just for starters, a priest is a man so he will naturally enjoy being looked up to and followed/loved by a woman. Any man, including a priest, has that same male ego deep down. Of course good priests will constantly be on their guard in this matter. But this is a temptation, like many others a priest will experience. There's a reason they spend 6 or 7 years in Seminary practicing and growing in virtue.

mw2016 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2016, 02:10:52 PM »

You can't even get in the confessional in PHX. People hog WAAAAYYYY too much time, and the priests only do confessions prior to Mass for 20 minutes. In a parish this large, it is absurd.

They have recently begun to keep a priest in the confessional during Mass up to Holy Communion, but this is not every weekend.

I have to go to the N.O. on Saturday afternoons sometimes, just to get to Confession! It should NOT be that way!

Personally, I think this is a practice the SSPX should take up in their parishes - have Confessions for an hour on Saturday afternoons to lessen the traffic on Sunday mornings.

TKGS · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2016, 02:45:37 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

I have to go to the N.O. on Saturday afternoons sometimes, just to get to Confession! It should NOT be that way!

Especially since most of their priests have no ability to absolve sins.

Stubborn · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2016, 03:15:42 PM »

Fr. Alphonsus gave a very good talk one time on making a proper confession, he said three things everyone should remember is to 1) be brief, 2) be blunt and 3) begone. He said when this happens, the penitent is usually in the confessional only about 5 minutes, but confession should never even take 15 minutes.

The OP priest should say the same thing from the pulpit once in a while.

Matto · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2016, 03:31:12 PM »

Quote from: Binechi

Nor is there any need to say an Act of Contrition in the confessional . . . The penitent should silently listen to the form of the absolution and its associated prayers. It has always seemed to us rude for the penitent to be talking on top of the priest as he is uttering these powerful words of absolution. Would a true Catholic babble on while the Consecration occurs during Holy Mass? Of course not.

I wanted to comment about this part of the post. I have only been to confession in the Novus Ordo and in an SSPX chapel. In the Novus Ordo I listened to the priest say the absolution quietly, but when I confess my sins to an SSPX priest they always tell me to pray the Act of Contrition while they are absolving me.

PG · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2016, 03:31:15 PM »

I like the method the traditio fathers here speak of. I don't like the method of saying an act of contrition while the priest absolves. Because, I find the vocal prayer of the priest distracting while I say the act of contrition. And, I would assume my praying also distracts them. I think the traditio fathers have it ordered correctly.

MMagdala · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2016, 06:05:43 PM »

Quote from: PG

I like the method the traditio fathers here speak of. I don't like the method of saying an act of contrition while the priest absolves. Because, I find the vocal prayer of the priest distracting while I say the act of contrition. And, I would assume my praying also distracts them. I think the traditio fathers have it ordered correctly.

I agree. I am grateful that my priest has me separately say my Act of Contrition, and only after that does he pronounce the absolution in Latin.

As to supposed hoggers, that's the priest's responsibility, both to provide some guidance periodically from the pulpit -- also perhaps in written material inside the church -- and finally to guide the penitent during confession. According to some priests, however, it's not a particular gender that is responsible for lengthy confessions, but those of both genders who prepare poorly and thus confess vaguely. That requires the priest to spend time investigating what the particular sins really were.

At our trad parish confessions are offered 30 minutes before every Mass, no matter what day of the week. There are at least 15 Masses per week. In addition, they are offered for an hour on Saturday afternoons and I think an hour on Fridays as well. And these priests are always available by appointment outside of the regular schedule. Also, the priests are available for spiritual direction, which may be why few penitents are tempted to monopolize confession for that purpose. My trad priest, who is aware of his need to minister to everyone, will take longer only as needed. So when I'm in line and someone is taking a long time, I don't assume that person, male or female, is abusing the sacrament. I assume:

(a) They may be nervous and thus recite their sins haltingly and may have to stop and think or rethink what those are;
(b) They may have trouble with his European accent;
(c) They may be hard of hearing, and so have to ask him to repeat;
(d) They may not have been to confession in quite a long time, and even though it wouldn't be a General Confession, it might be one after a long absence;
(e) They may be in moral or spiritual crisis at the moment, and he may need to guide them away from what is dangerous, even though the penitent is insufficiently alarmed;
(f) They may have a legitimate need for spiritual comfort because they may be in despair over their sins;
(g) They may have a deeply ingrained mortally sinful habit, and the priest needs to examine their purpose of amendment in some depth;

OR
(h) They may be abusing the sacrament for psychological or social reasons. It would be sinful for me to assume this point.

nctradcath · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2016, 07:07:08 PM »

Quote

There are at least 15 Masses per week.

What a wonder to have the above available.

MMagdala · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2016, 07:29:13 PM »

Quote from: nctradcath

Quote
There are at least 15 Masses per week.

What a wonder to have the above available.

Indeed. And I thank God daily for it.
However, I know we're not unique. There are other parishes with as many opportunities, one I can think of 90 minutes from us.

mw2016 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2016, 08:06:59 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: mw2016
I have to go to the N.O. on Saturday afternoons sometimes, just to get to Confession! It should NOT be that way!

Especially since most of their priests have no ability to absolve sins.

I do not hold the view that N.O. priests are not validly ordained.

If a priest hears your confession and says "I absolve you of your sins," after you say the Act of Contrition, the sins are absolved.

ihsv · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2016, 08:57:03 PM »

Quote from: mw2016

Quote from: TKGS
Quote from: mw2016
I have to go to the N.O. on Saturday afternoons sometimes, just to get to Confession! It should NOT be that way!

Especially since most of their priests have no ability to absolve sins.

I do not hold the view that N.O. priests are not validly ordained.

If a priest hears your confession and says "I absolve you of your sins," after you say the Act of Contrition, the sins are absolved.

Not to get too far afield here, but one consideration that many trads are ignorant of is that in the Novus Ordo ordinations, the priest is never given the power to forgive sins.

In the traditional ordination rite, following the Credo, the bishop sits on the faldstool at the middle of the altar (he is wearing the mitre). As the ordaineds kneel before him one by one, he places both his hands on the head of the ordained and says to each one:

Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

The above is entirely omitted from the new rite.

I'll leave you to form your own conclusions.

ihsv · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2016, 09:33:20 PM »

Btw, the "Credo" mentioned above refers to the Apostles' Creed (also omitted from the new rite), not the the Nicene Creed that follows the Gospel.

Carry on.

Maximus33 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2016, 10:24:14 PM »

There have been times that I have got to Confession really early, had to wait in a long line with each Confession taking about 5-15 minutes. I would then miss Confession because of this. I cannot tell you my frustration. But I am sure almost all of you know what I am talking about. And it seems like it is the same people.

If I was not in front of our Lord, I would scream.

Prayerful · « **Reply #14 on:** June 27, 2016, 11:18:00 AM »

I make sure to get to Mass half an hour early as there are some people, either men or women, who take an incredible length of time, such that a person could miss Confessions. Some people can have grave issues, but I really do think some are using the priest as a psychologist.