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Author Topic: Composting human remains?  (Read 1288 times)

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Offline Stanley N

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Composting human remains?
« on: July 13, 2021, 12:24:27 AM »
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  • https://religionnews.com/2021/07/12/amid-catholic-opposition-states-are-legalizing-composting-of-human-remains

    Putting such decomposed remains on the garden would be inappropriate.

    But if the decomposed remains are buried in a cemetery, do you think this process would be inappropriate?


    Offline donkath

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #1 on: July 13, 2021, 01:48:59 AM »
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  • Wouldn't decomposting them be the same as cremating them and thus forbidden by Catholic Church?
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2021, 02:20:51 AM »
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  • Natural burial, no embalming, burial in a very simple coffin, free to the earth, no vault, accomplishes the same thing.  It is ecological, very inexpensive (you could theoretically bury a loved one on your property for free), and entirely in accord with nature.

    Online Nadir

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #3 on: July 13, 2021, 02:48:59 AM »
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  • Unlike cremation, which seems to me a drastic, even violent way, composting seems as natural a process as burial. Though using what remains of the body, now turned to earth, to nourish your own vegie patch, seems off.

    Remember, man, that thou art dust and unto dust thou will return.

    Our family in Italy have to decide what they want to do with the remains of their loved ones after 30 years to either keep them in the colombaia (pideon hole) or to put them in a common grave. Very expensive business.

    The method is described here
    https://recompose.life/our-model/

    My question is, how do bones decompose this quickly?
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    Online Seraphina

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #4 on: July 13, 2021, 03:52:32 AM »
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  • I don’t know.  The first thought that came to mind when I read the thread title was the man that was murdered and buried in the yard, and had a tomato garden planted over him to disguise the crime.  One the hand, it was said the tomatoes were delicious! 🍅  🍅 😋 


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #5 on: July 13, 2021, 06:27:08 AM »
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  • Until the embalming craze, people were buried and their remains would naturally decompose.  It's not "composting".  This is entirely legal in Church law.  It's the State that generally prohibits it.

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #6 on: July 13, 2021, 11:09:50 AM »
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  • Wouldn't decomposting them be the same as cremating them and thus forbidden by Catholic Church?
    Why would you think this composting process is the same as cremating?

    To me, this composting process seems very similar to burial - it just happens in wood chips rather than dirt.

    And it's usually above ground, like a mausoleam.


    Natural burial, no embalming, burial in a very simple coffin, free to the earth, no vault, accomplishes the same thing.  It is ecological, very inexpensive (you could theoretically bury a loved one on your property for free), and entirely in accord with nature.
    There is a procedure called "direct burial" that skips embalming and is very similar to what you describe, though in my area, you are required to have a vault and you can't just bury a body on your property.

    But with composted remains I think you could maintain a private cemetery on your property.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #7 on: July 13, 2021, 01:17:45 PM »
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  • Why would you think this composting process is the same as cremating?
    People see the process as the same because they are utilitarians.  They see a thing or an action only according to it's physical composition and usefulness.  They have no concept of the Church's history or motives.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2021, 01:32:41 PM »
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  • I may be missing something here but if you spread the remains somewhere wouldn't it attract rodents etc?
    If it did that would certainly not be treating the body with dignity.  One of the purposes of burial is so it doesn't attract animals
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Emile

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 02:03:26 PM »
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  • Inside the Machine That Will Turn Your Corpse Into Compost

    Each center will be built around a three-story-tall concrete silo for turning ashes to ashes and dust to fertilizer.

    Urban Death Project

    When you die, do you want to be buried or cremated? If the architect Katrina Spade gets her Urban Death Project to work, you might have a third option: compost.
    If Spade's first recomposition center opens in Seattle in 2023 as planned, it'll be an airy, spiritual place where people can carry their loved ones' corpses to a final rest---and put those corpses' decomposition to an eco-minded use. She describes the facility as part funeral home, part place of memorial, and part public park. “I think there’s value in creating places where we’re thinking about death and its role in our lives, and the fact that it’s coming for all of us,” Spade says.
    The trick is getting the decomposition right. Spade is working with soil scientists to perfect the process, and designing the building around the concrete core that'll make it work. Imagine a three-story rectangular silo filled with wood chips, with a room on top. During memorial services, mourners carry the shrouded body up a ramp that winds around the core to this room. Here, the family members lower the body onto a bed of wood chips inside an open door in the floor. That door is the top of a 6-foot-by-10-foot concrete bay that adjoins multiple other bays, like a grid of elevator shafts. Mourners cover the body with additional wood chips and close the door.

    Olson Kundig
    Over the next four to six weeks, the body will move slowly downward as it decomposes, and as the material below it condenses and is removed. That timeline is based on the livestock mortality composting experience of Lynne Carpenter-Boggs, a soil scientist at Washington State University. When animals used in the university’s agriculture programs die, the school composts them in specially designed piles, where a large carcass can decompose---even the bones start breaking down---in one to two months. But no one has tried composting, with livestock carcasses or human bodies, in a vertical system like Spade’s.
    Next year, Spade and Carpenter-Boggs will do just that on the WSU campus. Using hog carcasses and, later, donated human bodies, they’ll find out how long it takes a body to sink from the top to the bottom. In Spade’s working design, each bay is 24 feet tall and accommodates six bodies at a time, with 3-foot layers of wood chips between them. Fans aerate the decomposing material to accelerate decay, pulling air from ports in the side of the bay, directing it through the core's contents, and expelling it via a filtered vent. The same ports permit the addition of water and sugar solutions to stimulate microbial activity.
    Spade and Carpenter-Boggs estimate that by the time the material reaches the bottom of the bay, it will be a coarse loam no longer recognizable as human remains. After that, in a room at the bottom of the core, staff (some very, very special folks) finish and cure the compost. Magnets screen out material like metal dental fillings, and employees process the compost into a finer, soil-like material. At least, that's the idea.
    Recomposition as Ritual
    Once the compost is finished, families can pick up some of the soil to take home---but there’s no guarantee it comes exclusively from their loved one. Relax, Spade says. Death is an opportunity to let go of Americans’ obsession with individualism. “What’s magical is that we cease to be human during this process,” she says. “Our molecules are rearranged into other molecules, and in fact what’s created is not human remains. To give someone back the soil that is created from just their person would be purely symbolic. If what we’re trying to do is reconnect with the fact that we’re all part of this grand natural world, let’s say, ok, we really are part of this system that’s greater than ourselves.”
    That won’t be an easy sell for most people. “I think there’s a deep-rooted desire for families to have control over the individual remains,” says historian Gary Laderman, chair of the religion department at Emory University and author of Rest in Peace: A Cultural History of Death and the Funeral Home in Twentieth-Century America. Still, he predicts that the project will attract a small clientele sympathetic to the its environmental philosophy.
    Quote
    What encourages me is that Spade has made provision for there to be ceremony in ways that the family finds meaningful.
    Bill Hoy

    That's about the limit of what the Urban Death core can handle, anyway. The 10-bay recomposition center can accept 60 bodies a month, if the decomposition process takes four weeks. A 60-body limit also takes into account that the building accommodates one memorial service at a time; allowing only two services a day, to ensure families won’t feel rushed.
    Recomposition centers will reflect the local vernacular: Spade and her partners are developing a toolkit that combines technical specifications (the proper dimensions for a core) with design recommendations (the kindest way to light a shrouding room), but beyond that, local designers will have free rein. A recomposition center in San Antonio should look different from one in, say, Tokyo. Maybe your local center will showcase vertical gardens on its interior walls. Maybe it will project the names of the deceased onto the core in purple neon.

    Spade names two other structures that evoke the feeling of inspired stillness she imagines in recomposition centers: Steven Holl’s Chapel of St. Ignatius on the Seattle University campus, and Peter Zumthor’s Therme Vals, a Swiss spa built over thermal springs. Both use natural materials to create a series of intimate rooms suffused with light from strategically placed windows. Recomposition centers will foster a similar mood of mystery and reverence, not least because the concrete core will be warm to the touch. (The heat comes from bacteria breaking down organic matter in an oxygen-rich environment---all commercial composting, done correctly, reaches high temperatures that kill pathogens.) “Just having that be a design consideration and letting that happen is pretty powerful,” Spade says. “You would realize immediately that something huge is happening inside.”
    Meanwhile, the facility's ramp is supposed to be a blank canvas for a customized mourning ritual: Family and friends can sing hymns as they carry their loved one's body, carry candles, or parade up the ramp behind a brass band. That’s exciting to Bill Hoy, a clinical professor in the Medical Humanities program at Baylor University and the author of Do Funerals Matter? The Purposes and Practices of Death Rituals in Global Perspective. Hoy, who directed hospice bereavement programs for many years, says the simple-funeral movement of the last few decades has led some families to cut all perceived frills from end-of-life care, even rituals that help survivors process their loss. “It’s almost as if by disposing of the body we dispose of our grief, and what I know as a clinician is it’s exactly the opposite,” he says. “What encourages me is that Spade has made provision for there to be ceremony in ways that the family finds meaningful.”
    Attitudes about death and disposition change over time. Americans only began to embrace cremation in the 1960s; today roughly half of all bodies in the US are cremated. Composting may not be for everyone, but it’s perfect for folks who want to return to the earth as gently---and as literally---as possible.
    Patience is a conquering virtue. The learned say that, if it not desert you, It vanquishes what force can never reach; Why answer back at every angry speech? No, learn forbearance or, I'll tell you what, You will be taught it, whether you will or not.
    -Geoffrey Chaucer

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #10 on: July 13, 2021, 02:16:34 PM »
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  • I may be missing something here but if you spread the remains somewhere wouldn't it attract rodents etc?
    If it did that would certainly not be treating the body with dignity.  One of the purposes of burial is so it doesn't attract animals
    This is a good reason for burying the bodies.  
    The Composing machine posted by Emile would certainly violate Catholic doctrines.


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2021, 10:33:51 PM »
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  •  Composting may not be for everyone, but it’s perfect for folks who want to return to the earth as gently---and as literally---as possible.
    Hardly.  If you want a gentle, reverent  and complete return to the earth try a green burial.  The unembalmed body is placed in a shroud and buried deep enough as to not attract animals.
    http://www.greenburialcanada.ca/greenburial
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #12 on: July 14, 2021, 02:23:23 AM »
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  • Hardly.  If you want a gentle, reverent  and complete return to the earth try a green burial.  The unembalmed body is placed in a shroud and buried deep enough as to not attract animals.
    http://www.greenburialcanada.ca/greenburial
    Green burial is what I had in mind.  Some people choose simple wooden coffins, some choose wicker or easily biodegradable ones, and some choose shrouds.  I know direct burial is closely related to this.  I think I'm pretty safe in saying that vaults are not required by law, but certain cemeteries may require them.  The laws would vary from state to state.  I have a feeling I may be conflating green burial with direct burial, though wood is ultimately biodegradable, it just takes longer.

    It is all about money and the peculiarly American habit of wanting to deny death and the reality of what happens to the body in time.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #13 on: July 14, 2021, 05:13:36 AM »
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  • https://religionnews.com/2021/07/12/amid-catholic-opposition-states-are-legalizing-composting-of-human-remains

    Putting such decomposed remains on the garden would be inappropriate.

    But if the decomposed remains are buried in a cemetery, do you think this process would be inappropriate?
    We cannot do it, the Jєωs love it because like cremation, they do defy God that on the last day, there is no possible way we will rise from the dead with the same bodies we had whilst we lived. At their core, cremation or composting both are for the same reason.  
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Composting human remains?
    « Reply #14 on: July 14, 2021, 08:30:19 AM »
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  • Quote
     Composting human remains?
    Just the title was as far as I needed to go to tell me it is not Catholic. 

    I think it is a NWO step towards putting to "good" use all the dead that will come about by the shots.
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