Author Topic: Companions and charity (Read 4980 times)

Adesto · « **on:** November 09, 2007, 03:24:11 PM »

Apologies if this thread already exists in another form, I couldn't find it...

How far does charity extend when it comes to questionable companions?

The first idea is that Christ came for the sinners, not the saints. If we shun people because they do not meet with our personal standards (which we may or may not always adhere to ourselves) how are they ever to get an idea of what a Catholic is? How can we convert by example if we If we are not "all things to all men", how are we to be "apostolic"? Isn't it rather like barricading oneself in with all the medicine in the time of an epidemic?

On the other hand, there's the idea that if certain people are occasions of sin for us, we are told we must avoid them. People who lead openly immoral lives and who spout all kinds of dangerous ideas cannot be a good influence on us.

I'm just opening this topic up for discussion. I have my own views on who I chose as friends. I'm interested in hearing what others say.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #1 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:31:21 PM »

I think it's definitely wise to avoid those who are an occasion of sin for you. I have quite a few secular friends who lead sinful lives or simply have no faith. I've found that I've had to teach them how to respect my faith. For example, I let them know gently not to take the Lord's name in vain. I usually do this by asking them if they're praying whenever they do it, or something like that. They get it after awhile.

I try to keep it light, so I don't come across as mean or judgemental. Some of the main issues seem to be stuff about pornography and birth control. If these things come up, I calmly state my disapproval, and then we just move on to another subject. After awhile, my friends seem to learn not to mention things like that around me.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #2 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:34:25 PM »

I thought I'd add another anecdote here. My brother's girlfriend, a completely fallen away Catholic was making jokes about how when she was a kid, and took communion, that it tasted bad. She was joking around about how they should use ritz or something.

I don't think she realized that what she was saying was so hurtful. I just got all serious and said "You're talking about the Body of Our Lord". It was a little awkward and uncomfortable for a second, but I'm so glad I said something. I think after that, it was pretty clear that those kind of jokes aren't okay with me.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #3 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:35:44 PM »

It probably depends. If some would be a bad influence, then it would be better to stay away from them. For some people, all one can do is pray. Others the same as well as be charitable.

When some could be of good will, one might have to be careful what to say to them if they find some element of truth at first to be too strong to handle. It depends on the situation, of course.

Adesto · « **Reply #4 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:37:47 PM »

What about friends who are gαy? Has anyone found that a real problem i.e. things get nasty whenever you talk about the Catholic stance on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity?

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:38:44 PM »

I think it's not so much a matter of how objectively "bad" (non-Catholic) your friends are, but rather how brazenly evil they are.

If there is a good chance that you can influence them -- then why not be a good influence on them?

But if you have friends who seem to drag you lower than you could EVER hope to "raise" them -- then it's a losing proposition for you, and you might as well "shake the dust off your feet" and move on.

The latter quote is a reference to Our Lord's admonition to His disciples. They were to go to every town, but when they wouldn't accept the Gospel (=bad will), then it's time to move on and waste no more time with them.

There are plenty of confused/good people among non-Catholics that are more worthy of your time -- and you'll never find them unless you cut your losses with regards to (give up on) the "incorrigibly wicked".

Largely it's a matter of prudence, and not presuming on the strength of one's faith. Remember, stronger faith than yours has been lost -- many times. Why presume you're strong enough?

Matthew

Nomas · « **Reply #6 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:45:56 PM »

Why would you be friends with a unrepentant sodomite, let alone one who openly attacks the Catholic Faith, if ever there was a case of keeping bad comapny I would think this would be it

It is not a question of whether they meet our standards it is a question of whether they respect who you are, your standards, your faith and don't try and bring you down to their level or attack you because of it, if they do this you should recognise they are your enemy, they are actively trying to damn you to hell, they are the servants of the devil.

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #7 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:48:58 PM »

I have a couple of lesbian friends. In the past I've had many gαy male friends as well, and I don't think I could keep them as a Catholic. I think it's easier with lesbians as they don't blab about their sɛҳuąƖity constantly like gαy men seem to.

I certainly never try to convert them. But I am very open about my faith. If the conversation goes towards the fact that my religion finds fault with their sɛҳuąƖ practices, I acknowledge that indeed it does. But then I make a point to say that I am a sinner too, and so I am in no position to judge them.

Are you asking because you have ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ friends that you're having difficulty getting along with?

Adesto · « **Reply #8 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:50:18 PM »

Perhaps I should stress that "friend" is one word to cover a multitude of meanings.

When I say gαy friends, I don't necessarily mean nearest and dearest. It could be someone in a group of friends, or in a wider social circle, or at work.

The question still stands though. How would others deal with making the Catholic stance on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity known, when the occasion calls for it?

Edit: No, I haven't got problems getting along with them as such. I get along with everyone :smile: I mean that while I condemn their behavior I can still get along with them, otherwise I'd never have friends who were divorced or co-habiting either.

Its not an easy thing to discern when one is dealing with all sorts of people every day. If everyone I know knows me as a friendly, happy, devout Catholic, I'm not going to act different around gαy people.

Nomas · « **Reply #9 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:55:45 PM »

It would depend on the situation and who it was imo.

Adesto · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2007, 03:59:11 PM »

Quote

Are you asking because you have ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ friends that you're having difficulty getting along with?

I'm not asking specifically for advice, I'm just throwing the topic open. I'm interested in what other views are :)

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #11 on:** November 09, 2007, 04:00:04 PM »

I think it's just one of those things that you have to "be there" for. There's no reason to go around correcting people on their morals unless they're receptive to change, or at least to listening.

If it comes up, and they seem open to hearing the truth, go for it. I think it always helps to cushion what you're saying with a "I'm a sinner too" kind of statement. Also, it's good to somehow convey that you have their own best interests in mind. How living a life of sin causes them needless suffering, that sort of thing. But again, if they don't even have faith, there's kind of no point. Denial of the truth of God and His Church is probably a bigger deal than the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

JoanScholastica · « **Reply #12 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:27:31 PM »

Adesto · « **Reply #13 on:** November 09, 2007, 05:46:55 PM »

Quote

Denial of the truth of God and His Church is probably a bigger deal than the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.

Agreed.

I've always considered that if our religion doesn't stand up to being challenged in debate then its not worth having. I've had seriously intense debates about Catholicism vs Protestant, or Atheist, or Muslim. I'm learning Arabic in my spare time so Christian vs Muslim debates naturally come up a lot. Yet I've read that engaging in debate about matters of Faith is dangerous because it can cause one to doubt? How else are we supposed to tell others about the faith?

Miss_Fluffy · « **Reply #14 on:** November 09, 2007, 06:51:26 PM »

I think the thing is, there's no point in arguing with someone about it. If someone is just trying to convert you to their religion, then it's better to just drop it.

Conversion happens through grace, we mostly have to show our faith by example. Then, when someone begins to open up to it, that's when we start sharing the truth with them. At least, that's how I handle it.