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Author Topic: College  (Read 3966 times)

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Offline SoldierOfChrist

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College
« on: April 30, 2013, 02:16:29 PM »
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  • These days college has become a place of heathenism, atheism, and socialism.  What options are there for sending our children somewhere where they will not be totally corrupted and turned against God?  Are our options competitive with other schools as far as ratings?  I want my son to get a good education, but I have no desire to put him in a serious occasion of sin.  Is that asking too much?  BTW, he's only a baby, so I'm just planning ahead.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 02:27:03 PM »
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  • Well if he's only a baby you have plenty of time to prepare him.  By the time he's 18 he might well be educated well enough that he has no interest in an undergraduate degree, or is ready to go straight to grad school or into a trade or business.


    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    « Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 09:48:45 PM »
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  • Thanks Telesphorus.  I suspect that things may be a lot different by that time also.  Perhaps we will just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.  Still, I was interested in hearing what others are doing now in order to ensure a solid, traditional Catholic lifestyle as college comes around the corner either for themselves or for their children.

    Offline Marlelar

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    « Reply #3 on: April 30, 2013, 10:12:57 PM »
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  • There seems to be two schools of thought on the subject.  Some people think that college is not necessary and carries an unacceptable risk of the near occasion of sin under any circuмstances; others think that many college degrees (though not all) are worth while and that young adults must learn how to live in the world but not of the world.  It's complicated and there are so many variables that I don't think anyone can or should make blanket statements about the in/advisability of higher education.

    Personally I think it is important to encourage our children in their areas of interests not ruling out college in favor of the trades/self-employment or vice versa.

    Marsha


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #4 on: April 30, 2013, 11:07:33 PM »
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  • Personally, I think college universities are cesspools of sin and should be avoided. Several Popes actually condemned the act of sending Catholic children to non-Catholic schools, so I'd imagine they would have thought the same of colleges.

    Now, if a child truly wishes to obtain a degree, doing so online is not a bad option. You are able to bypass all of the immorality that way, and it's also cheaper, though it does take longer to earn your degree.

    Of course, I think degrees are over-rated in today's world.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #5 on: April 30, 2013, 11:18:04 PM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    There seems to be two schools of thought on the subject.  Some people think that college is not necessary and carries an unacceptable risk of the near occasion of sin under any circuмstances; others think that many college degrees (though not all) are worth while and that young adults must learn how to live in the world but not of the world.  It's complicated and there are so many variables that I don't think anyone can or should make blanket statements about the in/advisability of higher education.

    Personally I think it is important to encourage our children in their areas of interests not ruling out college in favor of the trades/self-employment or vice versa.

    Marsha



    I think that one certainly can make a general statement about college (don't know if that's the same as a blanket one) and that general statement would be to stay away.  I'm nearing the end of a degree, and it is a very small two-year college.  Inundated with liberalism.  I spend most of my time retaining just enough to get an A on the exam, while simultaneously rejecting it and reminding myself that it's BS.  It's hard work.  Naturally, this doesn't apply to all subjects, but it applies to most.  I am not learning anything, I am after a piece of paper that is apparently going to help me make money to support a family.  

    Vocational and trade schools, I think, are the way for Catholics to go now.  I really don't know how a Catholic could go to a good school to get educated on finer arts like teaching or writing.  The safest way would be to teach yourself these skills and then hope you know the right people to be able to make a living doing whatever it is you plan on.  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Marlelar

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    « Reply #6 on: May 01, 2013, 01:12:44 AM »
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  • I respectfully disagree - a college education is essential if you want to be an attorney, a CPA, MD, RN, DVM, DDS, ChemE, and just about any engineering job you care to name.  Advanced degrees are required for many professions as well.

    No one needs to go to college to sell insurance or read a water meter, or write a novel, but discouraging a young adult with an aptitude for say, engineering, from going to college because he might be exposed to "sin", is short-sighted to say the least.  

    By the same token if that same young adult has a passion for plants he should not be discouraged from becoming a landscaper and pushed into college because it is expected by the parents.

    A person will be exposed to temptations and sin regardless of his chosen educational path and/or occupation.

    Not all college departments are cesspools and not all trade schools (or tradesmen) are honorable.

    Marsha


    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    « Reply #7 on: May 01, 2013, 01:29:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Marlelar
    I respectfully disagree - a college education is essential if you want to be an attorney, a CPA, MD, RN, DVM, DDS, ChemE, and just about any engineering job you care to name.  Advanced degrees are required for many professions as well.

    No one needs to go to college to sell insurance or read a water meter, or write a novel, but discouraging a young adult with an aptitude for say, engineering, from going to college because he might be exposed to "sin", is short-sighted to say the least.  

    By the same token if that same young adult has a passion for plants he should not be discouraged from becoming a landscaper and pushed into college because it is expected by the parents.

    A person will be exposed to temptations and sin regardless of his chosen educational path and/or occupation.

    Not all college departments are cesspools and not all trade schools (or tradesmen) are honorable.

    Marsha



    Well said Marsha.  I definitely think that my son is going to want to go to college.  Hopefully we will instill in him a better moral identity than I had when I went away.  My parents didn't realize it, but they were setting me up for moral failure.  Not to lay it all at their feet.  But I did grow up with the novus ordo and my parents raised me with a mixed bag of messages.  They wanted me to go out and have friends/girlfriends.  They didn't acknowledge that my entire generation had become utterly morally corrupt.  I think that my wife and I have a better perception of the way the world is, so we'll just have to properly prepare him for what he will encounter when he goes away.  We'll just have to raise ourselves a little soldier of Christ to go off and teach the others not to be depraved.


    Offline lauraelizabeth

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    « Reply #8 on: May 01, 2013, 06:27:30 AM »
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  • I am in college now. And, despite what everyone else thinks...I do not find college an acceptable place for a female (but I was ordered to go). However, when I went to this catholic (haaah) school, I can't even tell you  :shocked:
    ....it was unlike anything I had ever seen. That is to say, the liberalism was/is rampant. But I learned so much more about my faith because I constantly saw blatant heresies and I needed to arm my mind and soul for defense! It wasn't that i hadn't been exposed to very immoral behavior before (trust me, I was), it was just that I had never seen it so bad and had the offenders claim to be 'catholic'.
    In order to set me right, God led me to the lives of the saints (especially St. Jean-Marie Vianney and St. Therese de Liseaux) and I wanted, so badly, to be like them. Thankfully (although this did not come quickly), I have learned not to care what other people at school think of me. But I think this mindset is verrry important if you're going to survive college (aka, a DEN of iniquity) unscathed. I assure you that I will not come out unscathed.
    Unfortunately for me, it also came with a sense of pride because I couldn't help but look down on the pitiful lives some of those people were leading (it's difficult for me to separate the sins from the person sometimes). I have to constantly fight against this feeling.
    If your son is going to go to college, then I would send him as a commuter, then he can always come home to a good meal and feel true happiness. He will confide in his family and get GOOD advice as opposed to heathenish garbage from his peers. I will be praying for you!
    Thanks be to God I am graduating in two weeks and will be free from that place.
    Although, I might not even receive a diploma because I refused to fill my sports requirement with yoga or ultimate frisbee....... :scratchchin:

    Christo et Maria

    Offline SoldierOfChrist

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    « Reply #9 on: May 01, 2013, 11:03:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: lauraelizabeth
    I am in college now. And, despite what everyone else thinks...I do not find college an acceptable place for a female (but I was ordered to go). However, when I went to this catholic (haaah) school, I can't even tell you  :shocked:
    ....it was unlike anything I had ever seen. That is to say, the liberalism was/is rampant. But I learned so much more about my faith because I constantly saw blatant heresies and I needed to arm my mind and soul for defense! It wasn't that i hadn't been exposed to very immoral behavior before (trust me, I was), it was just that I had never seen it so bad and had the offenders claim to be 'catholic'.
    In order to set me right, God led me to the lives of the saints (especially St. Jean-Marie Vianney and St. Therese de Liseaux) and I wanted, so badly, to be like them. Thankfully (although this did not come quickly), I have learned not to care what other people at school think of me. But I think this mindset is verrry important if you're going to survive college (aka, a DEN of iniquity) unscathed. I assure you that I will not come out unscathed.
    Unfortunately for me, it also came with a sense of pride because I couldn't help but look down on the pitiful lives some of those people were leading (it's difficult for me to separate the sins from the person sometimes). I have to constantly fight against this feeling.
    If your son is going to go to college, then I would send him as a commuter, then he can always come home to a good meal and feel true happiness. He will confide in his family and get GOOD advice as opposed to heathenish garbage from his peers. I will be praying for you!
    Thanks be to God I am graduating in two weeks and will be free from that place.
    Although, I might not even receive a diploma because I refused to fill my sports requirement with yoga or ultimate frisbee....... :scratchchin:

    Christo et Maria


    Thanks for your prayers and for your perspective Laura Elizabeth.  I am sorry to hear that you've had such an unpleasant time in school.  Hopefully your it will pay off with a good job and income.  Is this a "Jesuit" school that you're attending?

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #10 on: May 01, 2013, 12:26:41 PM »
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  • Marsha's post, with all due respect, is worldly and is simply bad advice.

    What good is it to expose yourself to an occasion of sin just to earn a degree if you lose your soul in the process?

    Bishop Williamson said that women going to universities leads to the "unwomanizing of women". Tradition In Action voiced their disagreement with +Williamson, saying women need a degree for some things, such as to be a lawyer. They   miss the point, though.

    I realize that Ryan has a son, not a daughter, but the point is Bishop Williamson is correct that universities are cesspools of sin. Arguments such as "you need a degree for some things" or "sin is everywhere" don't jusify anything.



    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.


    Offline Telesphorus

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    « Reply #11 on: May 01, 2013, 12:39:31 PM »
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  • College should not be totally forbidden.  A studious young man may not find college a much greater occasion of sin than other environments.  It's quite apparent to me, however, that even the best young women very seldom avoid contamination in the university.  Women are social creatures, and the social environment of the university is totally, diametrically opposed to Catholicism.  Women do not have a legitimate need to be highly paid professionals.

    And just because certain professions require certain training doesn't necessarily make the training acceptable.

    Someday soon it may be impossible for a Catholic to in good conscience be trained to be a physician and be accepted by the government.  They may require the participation in immoral acts as part of the certification.


    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    « Reply #12 on: May 01, 2013, 03:04:52 PM »
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  • Yes, I am not saying that college should be totally forbidden, I am just saying that Marsha's post ignores several important things to consider.
    Please ignore ALL of my posts. I was naive during my time posting on this forum and didn’t know any better. I retract and deeply regret any and all uncharitable or erroneous statements I ever made here.

    Offline Stubborn

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    « Reply #13 on: May 01, 2013, 04:34:35 PM »
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  • If you think that institutions by and large are cesspools of scandal and sin these days, consider what they'll be like in another 18 years!

    If other reasons are needed to do what you can to avoid college, then there are other things to consider aside from what young adults are exposed to at these so called "learning" institutions.


    Although the two are intertwined, forget the crisis in the Church just for the moment and just consider what is actually being taught in these institutions................

    Consider that every major (and a lot of minor) company(s) that employs "white collar" workers and management staff will not accept new hires without a degree, no degree = no employment. This goes for the biggest companies out there including all government/political office positions - - Chase Bank, Goldman Sachs, IBM, Ford, GM, DOW, Chrysler and the list goes on and on and on and on.

    Now consider the shape the economy is in - not just the US, but every country - high unemployment, inflation, insurance costs sky high and on and on and on.........................what is something they all have in common? Simple - -- all the idiots in charge who have succeeded in driving the economies of the world into the dirt are all college educated. Every single idiot who helped and continues to help kill the economies are college educated idiots.

    The ones who are thought to "know better" because of their higher education have been taught how to help carry out the demise of nations.
     
    This is some of what they've been teaching our young adults in college for the last 45 years. What the heck will they be teaching them in 18 years from now?

    The proof is in the pudding that colleges all over the world have been an instrument of destruction - let's hope trads in the future do their best to find income in a field that does not require a college degree - especially 18 years from now if Holy Mother the Church is still in crisis mode.



     
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    « Reply #14 on: May 01, 2013, 10:28:24 PM »
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  • I would say college should only be an option among others like going to a trade school or gaining experience in a company to move up in the ranks, but it also depends on what kind of college someone chooses to attend. I definitely discourage the attendance of a "Catholic" university, but it also depends on how bad it is. It depends also on the field of study. If it's something like, let's say, going into pre-med, pre-law, education, or accounting, those would be worthwhile in obtaining a college degree, for they are necessary and productive professions that do require degrees. Other than good professions such as those that are foundational to human society and require degrees, college is not necessarily needed for advancing in other fields.
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)