Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 12:31:00 PM

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 12:31:00 PM
 What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this overstimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 25, 2012, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this overstimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.


You have to understand that most women have never had any models of chastity, modesty or true maternity.  Feminism has perverted their minds  regarding gender roles and, as a result, they are so spiritually unhappy that their only means of combating the self-loathing is to convince themselves that they are desirable to as many people as possible.  They don't respect themselves and what it means to be a woman, yet they are continually shocked that no decent men respect them or want them.  Their only attention comes from sɛҳuąƖ libertines who respect nothing but their appetites.  Consequently, most of them have never known love, in the Christian sense, and they falsely equate raw sɛҳuąƖ attraction or emotional obsession with actual love.  The cultivation of the latter two are the root of the immoral dress and behavior, as well as the blatant passive-agressive emotional manipulation that is so prevalent among women these days.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on June 25, 2012, 12:43:52 PM
Alaric it all goes back to feminism and the counterculture, with women wanting to dress like whores or 'swingers.' It is truly a shame but it turned women from wearing dresses to wearing jeans and sweaters, and whatever else. Of course there were whores before then but you could always pick out the whore; these days a lot of women dress like whores.

Of course this goes for men as well, I see men in sloven dress wearing tank tops or boxers or whatever out in public, or you get the 'screaming fairy' type who is too overly dressed with some briefs on if you get my meaning, or you get the white trash type who dresses like a hillbilly.

As for the older women doing it well feminism and whores have been around for a while. But yeah it is truly a shame that most women, instead of acting like whores to get the attention of a man, would instead act like ladies to get the attention of the right man.



Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on June 25, 2012, 12:59:26 PM
Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
But yeah it is truly a shame that most women, instead of acting like whores to get the attention of a man, would instead act like ladies to get the attention of the right man.


Whoops:

It is truly a shame that most women would rather act like whores to get the attention of a man than act like a lady to get the attention of the right man.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Marcelino on June 25, 2012, 01:16:41 PM
good thread.

I'd say if there's a man's part in this, i mean for myself, it would be "rewarding" that kind of behavior and/or giving into it.  It's like they say, "don't give away your power (or self-control)."  

There's the "swarm" attack.  Like the world has decided to make you feel like you're hugh heffner.  

Watch out for the "blitz" attack!   :dwarf:  (some girls won't take no for an answer!)

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 01:20:25 PM
I just believe that woman are too easily influenced and watch too much television and read too much garbage magazines that tell them how to dress, no matter how inappropiatelyin order to get attention.

The crazy thing is, many of these women have wedding bands on and it's obvious that their husbands are either oblivious or ambivalent about the situation.

What is is with men these days approving their wives exposing themselves like this?
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on June 25, 2012, 01:23:49 PM
Quote from: alaric
What is is with men these days approving their wives exposing themselves like this?


There are no men, just a bunch of weenies, pansies, or closet sodomites. Any man that has no courage to stand up to a woman in my opinion should be ashamed of himself and not call himself a man.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ora pro me on June 25, 2012, 01:45:01 PM
I recommend writing a letter to the manager of the pharmacy, insurance office, store etc. and tell them that if their receptionist or clerk doesn't dress more professionally you'll be taking your business elsewhere.  

I've written a few of these letters over the years.  Sign your name if you wish, or sign it "a customer". It might be even better if they don't know who writes the letter since they'll then be wondering each time a customer comes through the door if the person is the letter writer.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 01:46:42 PM
Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this overstimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.


You have to understand that most women have never had any models of chastity, modesty or true maternity.  Feminism has perverted their minds  regarding gender roles and, as a result, they are so spiritually unhappy that their only means of combating the self-loathing is to convince themselves that they are desirable to as many people as possible.  They don't respect themselves and what it means to be a woman, yet they are continually shocked that no decent men respect them or want them.  Their only attention comes from sɛҳuąƖ libertines who respect nothing but their appetites.  Consequently, most of them have never known love, in the Christian sense, and they falsely equate raw sɛҳuąƖ attraction or emotional obsession with actual love.  The cultivation of the latter two are the root of the immoral dress and behavior, as well as the blatant passive-agressive emotional manipulation that is so prevalent among women these days.
Well, yes and no. Like I said, many of these women are older and you can't tell me they don't know right from wrong or they don't know what they're doing, they know exactly what their doing.

I'm not going too much into it, but I just came from an office where their was an older woman and I had no choice but to look down upon her as she was sitting and her boobs were hanging out all over the place, it was impossible not to notice. And she was actually very nice and professional (aside from her top) but the whole message I received was " hey, check these out" the whole time I did business there. It's crazy the women are dressing like this and all we have to here is " you need to control yourself more". That's pure insanity.

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 01:51:39 PM
Quote from: ora pro me
I recommend writing a letter to the manager of the pharmacy, insurance office, store etc. and tell them that if their receptionist or clerk doesn't dress more professionally you'll be taking your business elsewhere.  

I've written a few of these letters over the years.  Sign your name if you wish, or sign it "a customer". It might be even better if they don't know who writes the letter since they'll then be wondering each time a customer comes through the door if the person is the letter writer.  
I think I'd have writers cramp because I'd have to write so many letters and to be frank, I'm sure either they wouldn't care less or like the attention themselves ( sex sells as they say) or terrified of some kind of gender/sɛҳuąƖ harassment for the mere mention about them toning it down and  dressing somewhat more modestly.

This is the world we live in.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Jaynek on June 25, 2012, 02:11:41 PM
Quote from: alaric

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


How do you suggest women be kept under control?  Should their husbands spank them? :rolleyes:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 25, 2012, 02:18:56 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: alaric

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


How do you suggest women be kept under control?  Should their husbands spank them? :rolleyes:
That would be a good start.  :wink:

But really, like I said, we might need some "modesty" laws to keep this under control.

What the heck, they have laws for everything else.

Or at least it should be frowned upon and not permitted in the workplace.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Capt McQuigg on June 25, 2012, 02:20:24 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: alaric

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


How do you suggest women be kept under control?  Should their husbands spank them? :rolleyes:


With a pine board.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 25, 2012, 02:42:13 PM
Quote from: alaric

Well, yes and no. Like I said, many of these women are older and you can't tell me they don't know right from wrong or they don't know what they're doing, they know exactly what their doing.

I'm not going too much into it, but I just came from an office where their was an older woman and I had no choice but to look down upon her as she was sitting and her boobs were hanging out all over the place, it was impossible not to notice. And she was actually very nice and professional (aside from her top) but the whole message I received was " hey, check these out" the whole time I did business there. It's crazy the women are dressing like this and all we have to here is " you need to control yourself more". That's pure insanity.

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


Yes, but how old was she?  Assuming she was in her mid-fifties, that means she was born in the late fifties, a teenager in the late sixties and early seventies.  That's the prime age for the so-called "sɛҳuąƖ revolution."  Anyone born later than the late 1930s would not have been in their formative years before the rise of the counterculture and the sɛҳuąƖ liberation that has demolished respect for gender roles and public decency.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 25, 2012, 02:44:15 PM
Quote from: Capt McQuigg
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: alaric

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


How do you suggest women be kept under control?  Should their husbands spank them? :rolleyes:


With a pine board.


If your wife needs this degree of correction then you're probably already out of luck as it means that she doesn't respect you or your place in spiritual dominion over your family.  Better to be particularly careful in selecting a spouse and, during the courtship, have very frank conversations about what you expect of her as wife and what she can expect of you as a husband.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: MrsZ on June 25, 2012, 02:58:54 PM
I see this all around as well.  It's interesting to me how few men actually do show any obvious reaction.  In fact, I never see it.  When I was growing up and into my teens and twenties .. it seemed that you'd often see (or experience) men turning around when they passed a woman,, or would look at her blatantly, saying something, calling out from a car .. (NOT that this is a good thing, in fact, I hated that type of thing), but I absolutely never observe that anymore at all.  You could see the most attractive woman dressed immodestly and you'll see guys walking by as if she's invisible.  No perceptable response by anyone.  You kind of wonder why women keep doing it when they aren't getting any "positive" feedback!

Sometimes I think that without intentionally trying to, many (even secular) men are forced to practice custody of the eyes (and thoughts too) just to get by in the day to day business of life. I also think that men are both 1) afraid of sɛҳuąƖ harrassment charges, and 2) have become so saturated with these images, that they've become less and less sensitive, i.e., consciously reactive to them.  

I know, alaric that you've noticed otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.  But I think that it's such an aggressive act by the women, ... that most men have just shut off to the stimuli.  And frankly, it's like a female version of attack.  It's less about sɛҳuąƖity, as it is about power.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: sedetrad on June 25, 2012, 03:05:20 PM
Quote
Sometimes I think that without intentionally trying to, many (secular) men are forced to practice custody of the eyes (and thoughts too) just to get by in the day to day business of life. I also think that men are both 1) afraid of sɛҳuąƖ harrassment charges, and 2) have become so saturated with these images, that they've become less and less sensitive, i.e., consciously reactive to them.  


BINGO!
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ServusSpiritusSancti on June 25, 2012, 03:20:25 PM
Quote from: Jaynek
Quote from: alaric

Like I said, women need to be kept in under control because they get out of hand in a hurry and when they get ogled for it, of course, all the guys are "pigs" for giving the attention they so desperately want. Total illogic.


How do you suggest women be kept under control?  Should their husbands spank them? :rolleyes:


I think he means husbands should correct their wives when they dress immodestly.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ora pro me on June 25, 2012, 03:35:24 PM
Quote from: alaric
Quote from: ora pro me
I recommend writing a letter to the manager of the pharmacy, insurance office, store etc. and tell them that if their receptionist or clerk doesn't dress more professionally you'll be taking your business elsewhere.  

I've written a few of these letters over the years.  Sign your name if you wish, or sign it "a customer". It might be even better if they don't know who writes the letter since they'll then be wondering each time a customer comes through the door if the person is the letter writer.  
I think I'd have writers cramp because I'd have to write so many letters and to be frank, I'm sure either they wouldn't care less or like the attention themselves ( sex sells as they say) or terrified of some kind of gender/sɛҳuąƖ harassment for the mere mention about them toning it down and  dressing somewhat more modestly.

This is the world we live in.


Type a letter and keep it on your computer to change according to the need.  That shouldn't be too hard and you won't get writer's cramp.  

As Catholics we need to be proactive.  Think of this as an apostolic action.  

Be sure to tell them that if things don't improve you'll take your business elsewhere.  Money talks.  If a manager sees it, he/she will hopefully say something to the employee for fear of losing business.

Most businesses do have some type of professional dress code, unless you're talking about a very small business, and if it's a small business, they'll be especially worried about losing buinsess over this.  

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ora pro me on June 25, 2012, 03:36:36 PM
You can write your letter directly to the woman who has offended against modesty or to the manager.  

Heck, write to both of them.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Marcelino on June 25, 2012, 06:30:09 PM
Writing letters works.  You might be surprised that you can get results with stuff like that.  Albeit, short lived.  In the end, we seem to be living in an age of immodesty.  So, you don't have much control over anything but yourself.  That shouldn't be taken for granted either.  

 
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Sigismund on June 25, 2012, 07:52:53 PM
Who is Peg Bundy?
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: theology101 on June 25, 2012, 08:06:41 PM
Side boob is the new cleavage.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: theology101 on June 25, 2012, 08:08:07 PM
Quote from: Sigismund
Who is Peg Bundy?


Shame. On. You.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092400/

Al Bundy is my hero. I'm actually writing a comprehensive book on this show, if I ever get around to it. I know everything about it.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Graham on June 25, 2012, 08:45:08 PM
Yeah. I know of certain women at the office who dress like that and I suspect it's because they're next to useless as workers. And on top of that, you go to a bank or a restaurant and they're playing music with sɛҳuąƖ lyrics. It never seems to cross anyone's mind that it's inappropriate. I complained once at my bank about the music they play and the teller actually started arguing with me. Who can even fathom the lack of propriety that causes a bank teller to argue with her customer about such a thing? Fortunately one of the district managers lent a more sympathetic ear.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Telesphorus on June 25, 2012, 09:59:13 PM
Quote
I complained once at my bank about the music they play and the teller actually started arguing with me.


They play music like that in the banks in Canada?  Strange.

It is also strange she would be invested in defending it.  But maybe not.  A large section of women seem to have decided collectively that they are going to besiege men with this sort of thing.  The slutwalks show that it is ideological, thought out, intentional, shameless, not just a fad, no, they're self-righteous about it.  

They want to make men walk on egg shells, they want to make accusations on any pretext.

Society has changed a great deal since this article was written:

http://www.oldandsold.com/books/men-women/men-women-18.shtml
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Philomena on June 25, 2012, 10:15:55 PM
Well, I know this thread is about the woman, but something I find equally offensive on a man, is when he wears his pants hanging off his fat arse, showing...umm, well let's just say it makes a girl gag.  Too gross for words (http://i6.ifrm.com/6294/90/emo/gaah.gif)   (http://i6.ifrm.com/style_images/1/icon8.gif)  


(http://i6.ifrm.com/6294/90/emo/swoon.gif)
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: spouse of Jesus on June 26, 2012, 04:22:18 AM
Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
Quote from: alaric
What is is with men these days approving their wives exposing themselves like this?


There are no men, just a bunch of weenies, pansies, or closet sodomites. Any man that has no courage to stand up to a woman in my opinion should be ashamed of himself and not call himself a man.


  If you ask him he will say:' I am open-minded, I am modern, logical and up-to date. I see my wife as a human person with freedom of choice,she is an adult who knows what is best for her and can decide. spouses have to respect eachother's views and opinions." etc. He is himself as brainwashed as his wife.
  If a guy feels the social pressure to appear ''progressed'' and ''modern'' he will force his wife to dress like that.

 
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ggreg on June 26, 2012, 04:39:56 AM
Story about dressing modestly in China.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-18589737

I don't think it means MODESTLY, just more modestly than a whore.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on June 26, 2012, 06:28:30 AM
Quote from: Philomena
Well, I know this thread is about the woman, but something I find equally offensive on a man, is when he wears his pants hanging off his fat arse, showing...umm, well let's just say it makes a girl gag.  Too gross for words (http://i6.ifrm.com/6294/90/emo/gaah.gif)   (http://i6.ifrm.com/style_images/1/icon8.gif)  


(http://i6.ifrm.com/6294/90/emo/swoon.gif)


Oh you're definitely right about that. I've seen plenty of ghetto wannabe gangsters dressed like that. In fact I mentioned that in my thread about the sloven dress of men.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on June 26, 2012, 06:31:51 AM
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
If you ask him he will say:' I am open-minded, I am modern, logical and up-to date. I see my wife as a human person with freedom of choice,she is an adult who knows what is best for her and can decide. spouses have to respect eachother's views and opinions." etc. He is himself as brainwashed as his wife.
  If a guy feels the social pressure to appear ''progressed'' and ''modern'' he will force his wife to dress like that.


I've never seen a guy force a woman to dress like a whore but you are definitely right about the guys who allow this having liberal views.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ora pro me on June 26, 2012, 07:52:40 PM
Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
If you ask him he will say:' I am open-minded, I am modern, logical and up-to date. I see my wife as a human person with freedom of choice,she is an adult who knows what is best for her and can decide. spouses have to respect eachother's views and opinions." etc. He is himself as brainwashed as his wife.
  If a guy feels the social pressure to appear ''progressed'' and ''modern'' he will force his wife to dress like that.


I've never seen a guy force a woman to dress like a whore but you are definitely right about the guys who allow this having liberal views.


Maybe not "force" but many husbands encourage their wives to dress indecently.  The worldly view is often completely opposite of morality.

Folks, we need to redouble our efforts to make reparation to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary Who are so deeply offended by sins of impurity.

May God have mercy on us poor sinners and on our sinful world!
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Lover of Truth on June 27, 2012, 11:09:22 AM
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.



I agree whole-heartedly.  I'm glad someone feels my pain as it were.  Men have less to show but unlike the women, we don't walk around in the Federal workplace bare-chested.  But that might change as well.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 27, 2012, 01:24:06 PM
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
Quote from: alaric
What is is with men these days approving their wives exposing themselves like this?


There are no men, just a bunch of weenies, pansies, or closet sodomites. Any man that has no courage to stand up to a woman in my opinion should be ashamed of himself and not call himself a man.


  If you ask him he will say:' I am open-minded, I am modern, logical and up-to date. I see my wife as a human person with freedom of choice,she is an adult who knows what is best for her and can decide. spouses have to respect eachother's views and opinions." etc. He is himself as brainwashed as his wife.
  If a guy feels the social pressure to appear ''progressed'' and ''modern'' he will force his wife to dress like that.

 
We used to have a word for guys like that where I come from.

But for decency and respect for the forum, I will not repeat it here.

And I don't think any guy is really that "brainwashed" to believe what you just said.

It's more like he's a spineless and mush when it comes to his domineering wife.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Nylndech on June 27, 2012, 04:51:38 PM
writing letters might help

some places have notecards for comments

I notice fast food and supermarkets have dress codes so no cleavage there

immodest women are seldom near occasion of sin for me

looks so terrible

modest women are more of a risk now
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Roman55 on June 27, 2012, 08:00:25 PM
Quote from: alaric
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
Quote from: alaric
What is is with men these days approving their wives exposing themselves like this?


There are no men, just a bunch of weenies, pansies, or closet sodomites. Any man that has no courage to stand up to a woman in my opinion should be ashamed of himself and not call himself a man.


  If you ask him he will say:' I am open-minded, I am modern, logical and up-to date. I see my wife as a human person with freedom of choice,she is an adult who knows what is best for her and can decide. spouses have to respect eachother's views and opinions." etc. He is himself as brainwashed as his wife.
  If a guy feels the social pressure to appear ''progressed'' and ''modern'' he will force his wife to dress like that.

 
We used to have a word for guys like that where I come from.

But for decency and respect for the forum, I will not repeat it here.

And I don't think any guy is really that "brainwashed" to believe what you just said.

It's more like he's a spineless and mush when it comes to his domineering wife.


I think one needs to be very careful.  The feminists dress that way deliberately to get someones attention.  Any comments like 'flirts' and what have you will be taken as 'ok', but any objectionable remarks, criticisms, or disagreeable comments will be their chance to turn the situation around and have the guy arrested and accused of 'harassment'. Those are the 'thought police' who would claim we can't 'force our morals down their throats', but find it perfectly acceptable to prance their immoral code of conduct where ever they go.  I used to think: "those woman don't go to my church", but not too long ago, while standing in the confessional line I see the church start to fill up with people and low and behold: A young maiden with her boy friend.  She was wearing on of those 'spaghetti strap 'tiny black dresses' with no sleeves  :shocked:and had to be constantly 'pulling it down' as she knew full well it was too short and too tight. To top it off: No veil.  And people would look at me goofy when I said "the spirit of traditionalism is rapidly evaporating from this church".  I wondered then: Should I tell her to leave and return with some clothes on?  After all I'm in what is typically known as a traditional Catholic Chapel.  On another thought, there were two very trad minded woman certainly with in better eye-shot of this person and would have had more 'impact' than me.  What would you have done?  Suggest she take your place in the confessional line and you go sit down?  I don't know.... :geezer:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: morningstar on June 27, 2012, 08:17:29 PM
It is the priest's responsibility to say something when men or ladies are not dressed appropriately for Mass.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: wallflower on June 27, 2012, 08:39:19 PM
I don't know why y'all are looking for psychological reasons why men don't "make" women dress more modestly. Brainwashed, spineless, mush etc... Are we talking about trad men or worldy men?

Trad men might be spineless if they know better but do not correct their wives and daughters. That I can see and it's often true.

But worldy men ruled by their passions actually like immodest dress. They aren't fighting their passions and trying to overcome them like the men contributing here so it's no skin off their backs. They love immodest dress and encourage it wholeheartedly. There's no psychobabble necessary on that one, it's pretty cut and dry. Cleavage? Yes please. And immoral women will correspond.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Telesphorus on June 27, 2012, 08:48:08 PM
Quote
But worldy men ruled by their passions actually like immodest dress.


You overestimate the extent to which men want women to dress that way.  

Maybe some gawking teenage boys want to see that, but the reality is most men understand it's just a form of flaunting and teasing - and it makes the girl look trashy.  The men who are the target audience don't care much, because such men are accustomed to having their way with women, and could care less how they dress.

I've been pleasantly surprised to see some women walking the trail in long skirts recently.  They look quite nice.  Maybe there's a style change?
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 27, 2012, 08:57:49 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus

I've been pleasantly surprised to see some women walking the trail in long skirts recently.  They look quite nice.  Maybe there's a style change?


I wouldn't hold my breath, Tele.  I went to lunch late as I usually do and saw a gaggle of girls, children really that probably weren't over the age of sixteen, wearing tissue-thin "summer dresses" of scandalous brevity.  Their chaperone: a middle-aged woman with cosmetic veneers, highlights in her hair, wearing a spaghetti-strap tank and shorts just this side of daisies.  Nope, girls are learning it early and learning it at home, and I don't see it stopping or even slowing down.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Nylndech on June 28, 2012, 12:15:27 AM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
But worldy men ruled by their passions actually like immodest dress.


Maybe some gawking teenage boys want to see that, but the reality is most men understand it's just a form of flaunting and teasing - and it makes the girl look trashy.  The men who are the target audience don't care much, because such men are accustomed to having their way with women, and could care less how they dress.


This is true

despite lamentable role of modern women

whitecollar workplace enforcement of dresscode strictly enforced

women expected to dress well

boss doing secretary in private office is exception not rule

no one cries foul if woman expected to button top and cover knees

woman not passing interview if dress immodest

ever see uniformed fast food girls showing much skin?

if yes then probably not working there much longer
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 28, 2012, 09:26:40 AM
Quote from: wallflower
I don't know why y'all are looking for psychological reasons why men don't "make" women dress more modestly. Brainwashed, spineless, mush etc... Are we talking about trad men or worldy men?

Trad men might be spineless if they know better but do not correct their wives and daughters. That I can see and it's often true.

But worldy men ruled by their passions actually like immodest dress. They aren't fighting their passions and trying to overcome them like the men contributing here so it's no skin off their backs. They love immodest dress and encourage it wholeheartedly. There's no psychobabble necessary on that one, it's pretty cut and dry. Cleavage? Yes please. And immoral women will correspond.  
We're talking men in general across all cultures and worldviews.

Sometimes I think that trads, male and female, have this misconception that Traditional Catholicism is the only setting for true modesty and high morality.

This couldn't be more wrong. You can check around the globe and outside of maybe primitive Africa and parts of Asia women were held accountable for their appearance, modesty, humility and general respect for the social mores of their respective cultures. There are plenty of non-Catholic men, heck non-Christian men that hold their women to a certain standard of respect and modesty in their dress and the way they carry themselves.

It is more here in the Judaic, counter-culture, pornography addicted "christian" West that women have run amok dressing and acting like two-bit whores.

Most other cultures do not and will not put up with this feminizing, liberation BS.


And their not afraid to tell the women as such.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on June 28, 2012, 10:41:05 AM
Fashion is terrible.  The majority of clothing is low cut in cleavage area.  And nothing has sleeves.

The sad thing is that little girls are wearing high heels and dressing like hookers.   Little boys are wearing t shirts with demonic symbols, black and skulls.  What really irks me is a Irish t-shirt and the shamrock is now replaced with the four leaf clover....

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 28, 2012, 10:43:10 AM
Quote from: alaric

We're talking men in general across all cultures and worldviews.

Sometimes I think that trads, male and female, have this misconception that Traditional Catholicism is the only setting for true modesty and high morality.

This couldn't be more wrong. You can check around the globe and outside of maybe primitive Africa and parts of Asia women were held accountable for their appearance, modesty, humility and general respect for the social mores of their respective cultures. There are plenty of non-Catholic men, heck non-Christian men that hold their women to a certain standard of respect and modesty in their dress and the way they carry themselves.

It is more here in the Judaic, counter-culture, pornography addicted "christian" West that women have run amok dressing and acting like two-bit whores.

Most other cultures do not and will not put up with this feminizing, liberation BS.


And their not afraid to tell the women as such.


Despite the similar effect (modest dress and chaste behavior), radically the cause could not be more different, as far as those other cultures are concerned.  For the most part, those cultures demand modesty of a woman so as to protect their place as chattel of the man to which they are attached in whatever social custom passes for matrimony there.  Furthermore, it's ludicrous to argue that adherence to any cultural norms not founded upon the Christian religion as being indicative of morality, and such actions cannot be construed as being of the same personal sanctity which Christianity engenders.  This is especially true in Asian cultures, where illicit sɛҳuąƖ activity is looked upon as an affront to honor rather than morality, and where abortion is a non-taboo even among nominal Christians.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 28, 2012, 01:11:18 PM
Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: alaric

We're talking men in general across all cultures and worldviews.

Sometimes I think that trads, male and female, have this misconception that Traditional Catholicism is the only setting for true modesty and high morality.

This couldn't be more wrong. You can check around the globe and outside of maybe primitive Africa and parts of Asia women were held accountable for their appearance, modesty, humility and general respect for the social mores of their respective cultures. There are plenty of non-Catholic men, heck non-Christian men that hold their women to a certain standard of respect and modesty in their dress and the way they carry themselves.

It is more here in the Judaic, counter-culture, pornography addicted "christian" West that women have run amok dressing and acting like two-bit whores.

Most other cultures do not and will not put up with this feminizing, liberation BS.


And their not afraid to tell the women as such.


Despite the similar effect (modest dress and chaste behavior), radically the cause could not be more different, as far as those other cultures are concerned. For the most part, those cultures demand modesty of a woman so as to protect their place as chattel of the man to which they are attached in whatever social custom passes for matrimony there. Furthermore, it's ludicrous to argue that adherence to any cultural norms not founded upon the Christian religion as being indicative of morality, and such actions cannot be construed as being of the same personal sanctity which Christianity engenders.  This is especially true in Asian cultures, where illicit sɛҳuąƖ activity is looked upon as an affront to honor rather than morality, and where abortion is a non-taboo even among nominal Christians.
Uhh, have you taken a good look around here lately at the social customs passing for "matrimony" as well? I believe we are in no position to tell any other culture on the planet about their rules or motivation demanding modesty from their women for whatever reasons.

And even if they look at their women as "chattel", at least their men are marrying women, of the female species that is.

Whether you want to admit it or not, even these pagan cultures have more respect for the role and dignified place for women and wives than the predominately ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, sɛҳuąƖly perverted West these days.

Of course things are slowly changing in the East as well as the become more "Westernized".
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Telesphorus on June 28, 2012, 01:48:47 PM
Quote from: JohnGrey
Furthermore, it's ludicrous to argue that adherence to any cultural norms not founded upon the Christian religion as being indicative of morality


You couldn't be more wrong, JohnGrey.  There is such a thing called natural morality.  Now many practice natural morality, and maintain moral standards that so-called "trads" (neotrads, liberals) mock.  Those who practice such morality are not Christians, but it is incorrect to say their customs are not at all founded on the Christian religion because Christ is God and the religion of Christ is the true religion, which encompasses the natural law.

Yes, pagans can and do practice natural morality with more seriousness than most Christians, and many trads.  That is just a fact, and it should be one that is humbling, which might account for the harsh reaction people have when it is brought up.

Another example:

Muslims who are sober are avoiding the sin of drunkenness (which can become a grave sin) and behaving morally in that respect, whereas trads who regularly become drunk are making a mockery of the Catholic religion.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Nishant on June 28, 2012, 03:42:19 PM
It's certainly true that the culture, speech, dress and general way of life of an authentically Christian society is markedly different from the decadent and perverse lifestyle of the "post-Christian" societies today. Once upon a happier time, Europe's Catholic Christians brought the light of faith to all lands. Today, in my experience I find that moral standards in ordinary society in a country like India, though rapidly decaying and hardly impervious to liberal influences, are at least comparably better than in America and Europe.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 28, 2012, 08:12:10 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote from: JohnGrey
Furthermore, it's ludicrous to argue that adherence to any cultural norms not founded upon the Christian religion as being indicative of morality


You couldn't be more wrong, JohnGrey.  There is such a thing called natural morality.  Now many practice natural morality, and maintain moral standards that so-called "trads" (neotrads, liberals) mock.  Those who practice such morality are not Christians, but it is incorrect to say their customs are not at all founded on the Christian religion because Christ is God and the religion of Christ is the true religion, which encompasses the natural law.

Yes, pagans can and do practice natural morality with more seriousness than most Christians, and many trads.  That is just a fact, and it should be one that is humbling, which might account for the harsh reaction people have when it is brought up.

Another example:

Muslims who are sober are avoiding the sin of drunkenness (which can become a grave sin) and behaving morally in that respect, whereas trads who regularly become drunk are making a mockery of the Catholic religion.


My apologies, Tele, I should've been more clear in my response.  When I refer to morality, I'm not referring only to the action of man which is in accord with natural law, but also participation in the edicts of divine law in the form of God's holy religion.  Now, those individuals in other cultures and religions do, at times, act in accord with natural law and the virtue of acts is variably to their merit.  The variability, I would argue, comes in whether the observance of natural law occurs independently or in response to or observation of a false religion, or a more in service of a culture that is inimical to the Christian religion.  While fulfilling the precepts of natural law, which is the basest order, in strengthens the persistence of the man in ignorance or antipathy to the divine law of God's revealed religion, which is the the supreme order of law to which man may be party and have knowledge.  In this way, I would argue that whatever merit or amendment of character the former would give would be destroyed by the latter; I reckon it to the notions of imperfect and perfect contrition in that, while the former is meritorious in seeking the remission of sin so as to avoid the fires of hell, the latter seeks the remission of sin for it's just purpose, in remorse for having offended God, the author of all things.  The latter can justify a soul at the moment of death, even lacking access to the sacrament of penance, whereas the former cannot.

God, as He alone can, is able to bring a temporal good from the exercise of that natural morality, insofar as He is able, by it, to condition men that do not recognize the truth of His religion to cooperating in virtue, but I question, and I don't feel unjustly, to what degree that exercise is meritorious.

I freely admit, however, that moral theology hardly my forte, so I'm humbly open to correction in this matter.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 28, 2012, 08:21:41 PM
Quote from: alaric
Uhh, have you taken a good look around here lately at the social customs passing for "matrimony" as well? I believe we are in no position to tell any other culture on the planet about their rules or motivation demanding modesty from their women for whatever reasons.

And even if they look at their women as "chattel", at least their men are marrying women, of the female species that is.

Whether you want to admit it or not, even these pagan cultures have more respect for the role and dignified place for women and wives than the predominately ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, sɛҳuąƖly perverted West these days.

Of course things are slowly changing in the East as well as the become more "Westernized".


When you say "we as a culture" do you mean "we" as the American nation, or "we" as in the society of all Christians?  The former has no claim to any morality, as it was founded on principles, and by men, hostile in every respect to God, His divine religion, and His Church, which is its only source.

If you mean "we" as in the Church, then we have every right, the sternest commission in fact, to correct any man that lives in ignorance or rebellion of God, no matter if he function according to natural law or no.  Jesus Christ founded, in and by his holy Apostles, with Peter as their Apostolic Lord, the perfect society, in which the bounty of every good, cure of every ill, settlement of every contention, and balm of every suffering is to be found.  It alone, I contend, has the right and duty to correct all, not because we are right but because He was.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Malleus 01 on June 29, 2012, 12:38:15 PM
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this overstimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.


Standards of Modesty in Dress
Imprimatur dated Sept. 24, 1956
"A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat; which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees.  Furthermore, dresses of transparent materials are improper."
The Cardinal Vicar of  Pius XII
"The good of our soul is more important than that of our body; and we have to prefer the spiritual welfare of our neighbor to our bodily comforts. If a certain kind of dress constitutes a grave and proximate occasion of sin, and endangers the salvation of your soul and others, it is your duty to give it up.  O Christian mothers, if you knew what a future of anxieties and perils, of ill-guarded shame you prepare for your sons and daughters, imprudently getting them accustomed to live scantily dressed and making them lose the sense of modesty, you would be ashamed of yourselves and you would dread the harm you are making of yourselves, the harm which you are causing these children, whom Heaven has entrusted to you to be brought up as Christians."
Pius XII to Catholic Young Women's Groups of Italy
THIS LEAFLET DISTRIBUTED BY: THE LEAGUE FOR MODESTY IN DRESS, NY
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 29, 2012, 12:59:58 PM
Quote from: JohnGrey
Quote from: alaric
Uhh, have you taken a good look around here lately at the social customs passing for "matrimony" as well? I believe we are in no position to tell any other culture on the planet about their rules or motivation demanding modesty from their women for whatever reasons.

And even if they look at their women as "chattel", at least their men are marrying women, of the female species that is.

Whether you want to admit it or not, even these pagan cultures have more respect for the role and dignified place for women and wives than the predominately ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖ, sɛҳuąƖly perverted West these days.

Of course things are slowly changing in the East as well as the become more "Westernized".


When you say "we as a culture" do you mean "we" as the American nation, or "we" as in the society of all Christians?  The former has no claim to any morality, as it was founded on principles, and by men, hostile in every respect to God, His divine religion, and His Church, which is its only source.

If you mean "we" as in the Church, then we have every right, the sternest commission in fact, to correct any man that lives in ignorance or rebellion of God, no matter if he function according to natural law or no.  Jesus Christ founded, in and by his holy Apostles, with Peter as their Apostolic Lord, the perfect society, in which the bounty of every good, cure of every ill, settlement of every contention, and balm of every suffering is to be found.  It alone, I contend, has the right and duty to correct all, not because we are right but because He was.
What are you kiddin me? How can you sit there and say Americans at one time, especially in the founding of the nation had no "claim on morality"? Really, John, you're just reaching now.

I understand where you're going as far as the Church is concerned, but to state the founding fathers and people who created this country "had no morals" or were "hostile to God" is ludicrous.

They might've been in error in the truth somewhat but they were far from the Judaic driven demons and deviants that control the thought process today.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: JohnGrey on June 29, 2012, 02:32:44 PM
Quote from: alaric

What are you kiddin me? How can you sit there and say Americans at one time, especially in the founding of the nation had no "claim on morality"? Really, John, you're just reaching now.

I understand where you're going as far as the Church is concerned, but to state the founding fathers and people who created this country "had no morals" or were "hostile to God" is ludicrous.

They might've been in error in the truth somewhat but they were far from the Judaic driven demons and deviants that control the thought process today.


I can say it quite easily because it's factually true.  I'll deal with the issue of the founding fathers before the general population of the colonies.  First, virtually all of them were practicing Freemasons, and it has long since been established by the Church that, at its root, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ functions in the service of Judaism (hence the term ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry), indeed among their ritual oaths is that to work especially for the good of the Jєωιѕн nation, and much of their ritualism is either lifted totally from kabbalism or is a derivative of the same.

Second, a good portion of the brain trust behind the creation of the American nation were deists that denied the very concept of revealed religion, among them Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson (though he espoused Unitarianism to a degree), James Madison, Thomas Paine, and George Washington.  Madison, especially, was inimical to the religious faith in general, which he regarded as superstition from which mankind, he hoped, would one day be free.  Nor, was this trend limited to the colonials; Abraham Lincoln is famous for claiming what is essentially behavioral positivism as his religion.

Third is the Establishment Clause of the Constitution, the docuмent intended by the founders to the single and supreme basis on which to base the civil action of men, and which forbids a religion to be associated with the civil government.  Disregarding the fact that such a notion has been so repeatedly and forcefully condemned as perfidious and heretical by the Pastors of the Church, it is also the means by which religious indifferentism has been inbued into the American spirit to such a degree that it has led to the overthrow of all civil conscience or morality.  How could it not?  The Establishment clause, in essence, removed the primacy of the Christian religion from its correct and necessary place at the center of social order, and placed it on equal footing with all other religions in protection under the law.  The intent was clear: Christianity, as with all other religions, would be subject to the tyranny of democracy.  Christ the King would not be the foundation and definition of civil order and the civil morality on which it would be based and enforced.  If you need further proof, I suggest you look at the Treaty of Tripoli, submitted by President John Adams in 1796 and ratified unanimously by the Senate, one of only three such occurrences in our Nation's history:

Quote from: Treaty of Tripoli, Article XI

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


As for the general population of America, the colonies themselves were founded by radical Puritans, among the most vocal enemies of the Catholic Church and ardent believers in separation of Church and State.  For much of the first one-and-one-half centuries of the nation, to profess the Catholic faith was to invite the confiscation of property, loss of ability to run for public office, brandings with hot irons, and even death.  Nor did the religious situation improve over the intervening decades, with the rise of so many stripes of competing religious lunacy (from the Darbyites and their dispensationalism by which modernists argue the heresy that the Mosaic covenant is still valid, to the Millerites which spawned the Seventh-Day adventists, to the Mormons who claim that Jesus is really the Archangel Michael, etc.) so as to make men exposed to their error and stupidity hostile to any and all religion.  All the while, the population has mourned the loss of "morality" in the nation, while serially electing legislators that openly promised to maintain and expand the laws causing that loss in the first place, simply so that they could reap the economic benefit of whatever malfeasance that their representatives were able to commit.  Wars of imperialist expansion and intervention; unlawful and utterly immoral operations responsible for the indiscriminate killings of tens of thousands, the forced relocation and practical genocide of indigenous peoples, all propagandized as the ushering in of freedom.  Freedom, while men are made to feel ashamed for uttering the name of his Redeemer outside of home or Church; freedom, while thousands are butchered from their mothers' wombs each day; freedom, while many times that are chemically aborted via the contraception with which hardly any, even those Protestant "brethren" to which you ascribed such lofty morality, have the slightest compunction.

These things, and so many more, are how I say, without amendment or hesitation, that the American nation has no claims whatsoever upon moral authority.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: spouse of Jesus on June 30, 2012, 12:58:36 PM
 
Quote
This is especially true in Asian cultures, where illicit sɛҳuąƖ activity is looked upon as an affront to honor rather than morality, and where abortion is a non-taboo.

  Truly! it is indeed the case!
 They don't care about real internal modesty. The only thing they desire is ''honor'' and making sure that your daughter is ''not shamed'' before her future husband's family. They believe that modesty is not needed for men because "they don't have anything to lose".
  In Afghanistan rape of a male child is not a crime, it is very common and even desirable, but rape of a female child is a big offense meeting with bƖσσdshɛd, inter-tribal wars. why? because little boys don't lose honor, little girls do.
  In Iran mollahs are encouraging girls to go after a few muttah (term marriages) and keep the honor (that is doing non-vaginal relationships) so that they are ''virgins'' when they eventually meet the right guy for a life long marriage. It is not a sin. That girl publicly says:"I did it but it honorable". canonically, a muttah marriage can be as short as half an hour.
  But sometimes the honor is lost by a mistake even though the couple decide not to let it be lost. Then what happens do you think? well, the girl commits ѕυιcιdє.
  also, abortion prior the 4th month is allowed. because ensoulment happens after the third month according to them.
  I know it was off-topic and too blunt but people's fascination with ME culture has to be resisted.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on June 30, 2012, 07:44:37 PM
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
 
Quote
This is especially true in Asian cultures, where illicit sɛҳuąƖ activity is looked upon as an affront to honor rather than morality, and where abortion is a non-taboo.

  Truly! it is indeed the case!
 They don't care about real internal modesty. The only thing they desire is ''honor'' and making sure that your daughter is ''not shamed'' before her future husband's family. They believe that modesty is not needed for men because "they don't have anything to lose".
  In Afghanistan rape of a male child is not a crime, it is very common and even desirable, but rape of a female child is a big offense meeting with bƖσσdshɛd, inter-tribal wars. why? because little boys don't lose honor, little girls do.
  In Iran mollahs are encouraging girls to go after a few muttah (term marriages) and keep the honor (that is doing non-####l relationships) so that they are ''virgins'' when they eventually meet the right guy for a life long marriage. It is not a sin. That girl publicly says:"I did it but it honorable". canonically, a muttah marriage can be as short as half an hour.
  But sometimes the honor is lost by a mistake even though the couple decide not to let it be lost. Then what happens do you think? well, the girl commits ѕυιcιdє.
  also, abortion prior the 4th month is allowed. because ensoulment happens after the third month according to them.
  I know it was off-topic and too blunt but people's fascination with ME culture has to be resisted.
I believe this is more because of "culture" than the effects of Islam in Afghanistan which tends to be more of a backwards and primitive culture with some horrifying social customs such as boy-rape which is common among some other pagan cultures as well. I have heard these "man-boy" sex escapades over there from friends and family members serving in the military and they were more than horrified and outraged when they learned of it. But, I don't believe it is any more connected to Islam than pederasty is between Catholic priests and children and the Church, I'm sure the majority of Islamists would be a little more than upset if one of their sons was raped by an older male, I'm sure there would be an issue of "honor" as well.

The case in Iran is just another example of a religion having a back door to get around the rules of celibacy before marriage and if I read you're post correct, a "muttah" is supposedly a platonic relationship?

Anyway it seems in Islam, like Christianity, the rules change from place to place like everywhere else and "culture" takes precedence over religion.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: spouse of Jesus on June 30, 2012, 11:10:12 PM
  No. a muttah is term marriage. that is a marriage with a specific amount of time. And it is not platonic. a woman in muttah has the right to ask the man to avoid ''complete relations'' and limit himself to ''pleasures other than that''. It is option not every muttah is ''incomplete''.
  Unlike catholicism, islam advocates and encourages incomplete unnatural acts between couples.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: alaric on July 01, 2012, 07:47:05 PM
Quote from: spouse of Jesus
 No. a muttah is term marriage. that is a marriage with a specific amount of time. And it is not platonic. a woman in muttah has the right to ask the man to avoid ''complete relations'' and limit himself to ''pleasures other than that''. It is option not every muttah is ''incomplete''.
  Unlike catholicism, islam advocates and encourages incomplete unnatural acts between couples.
Not to beat a dead horse here.....but.

Islam has a lot of sects like Christianity, with a lot of strange social customs and beliefs. This "muttah" thing from what I've read is not accepted in many parts of the Islamic world especially with the Sunni who believe it was condemned in the Hadith by Mohamed himself or one of the early Mullahs. You're in Iran no? It might be rampant there seeing Iran is a Shia dominated state in which they implement this Muttah thing as a form of accepted prostitution, it was not set up originally for the purpose of sɛҳuąƖ pleasure but for Muslim male warriors who were years away from home so they set up this kind of temporary "marriage" in order to avoid adultery and breaking sharia law. I don't know, the whole thing seems bizarre and I'm not researching any deeper because the more I do the more kooky Islam becomes for me, Islam has some really outrageous and downright insane practices in their belief systems.

Too bad the Church never made any real inroads within Persia, personally I think they would've done better if they at least stayed with the Zoroasters than the desert prophet, maybe i'm wrong but Islam has been a disaster for one of early civilizations greatest empires.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ggreg on July 02, 2012, 12:01:21 AM
Quote from: sedetrad
Quote
Sometimes I think that without intentionally trying to, many (secular) men are forced to practice custody of the eyes (and thoughts too) just to get by in the day to day business of life. I also think that men are both 1) afraid of sɛҳuąƖ harrassment charges, and 2) have become so saturated with these images, that they've become less and less sensitive, i.e., consciously reactive to them.  


BINGO!


Probably has far more to do with the widespread consumption of porn making men less interested in the real thing.

They've re-wired their brains.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: spouse of Jesus on July 02, 2012, 01:42:07 AM
 
Quote
This "muttah" thing from what I've read is not accepted in many parts of the Islamic world especially with the Sunni who believe it was condemned in the Hadith by Mohamed himself or one of the early Mullahs.

  Sunni have other forms of temperory marriage. Also, quran allows having female s## slaves.
  OK, this thread was about cleavage but as usual it turned into one of many feminism vs. islam threads.  :mad:
 
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Tiffany on July 02, 2012, 07:19:58 AM
Iran has temporary marriages too, it's called sigheh. Sometimes it is for prostitution but sometimes it's for convenience. For example a man taking a trip with an old widow may temporarily marry her so she doesn't have to keep her head covered but they never touch each other. This happens with maids too.

They do not think of chastity like we do. It's all about the men and their perverion not about the women. There if a girl is raped her own father or brother may murder her. There are no rules for men to be chaste but the girls need to show their private area to a midwife to get an intact hymen certificate before marriage. How sick is that? They also marry prepubuscent girls and they end up locked in a room with their parents downstairs while their husband rapes them. If you see some of these grown mothers and their eldest child they look like spouses or siblings.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Traditional Guy 20 on July 02, 2012, 07:29:45 AM
I didn't know we could be the moral imperialists here. I guess everyone forgets that 14-year old girls would marry men during the Middle Ages...Yeah Islam has polygamy but five wives is the limit and there were hardly any rights for women before 1900.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: CathMomof7 on July 02, 2012, 10:10:59 AM
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice the "eye candy" even if you try not to. I just don't get how they are getting away with it in the workplace these days, I mean years ago employers would frown upon a woman showing up ay her reception desk with her boobs popping out like Peg Bundy or some pin-up in a boys locker room. I can't go anywhere these days, the bank, the dr's office, the pharmacy, the insurance agent, without the obvious selling of sex with the woman's upper body bursting out of her spaghetti straps or halter top.

And I'm not just talking about the young females barely out of puberty but the aging premenopausal forty and fifty somethings who are dressing like they're going out on the town in search of "mister right" or something. This just goes to show just how far women will go without the normal constraints in a moral society, something we have ceased to be in quite some time. Without the fear of some kind of social or moral stigma, many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but all this open sɛҳuąƖ permissiveness , temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this overstimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.


I've been lamenting this for a very long time now.

Back in 1976 my father married for the second time.  His new wife was 10 years younger than my mother.  She was quite fashionable and the fashion in the 70s was hideous for women.  The blouses were all low cut with cleavage hanging out.    I remember my step-mother had this horrible bright yellow polyester pant suit that clung tightly to her hips and was cut really low.  Her breasts always hung out.  I remember many occasions where women's tube tops fell to their belly buttons when they were jumping around.  It was a shock.

I think the 80s brought back this idea that covering up was better.  There was a lot of really punky Victorian styles with lace collars and puffy sleeves. Many girls even got away from wearing bikinis at the beach.  We didn't even wear high heeled shoes really.  I had a pair of Victorian styled boots but they were flat.  Now admittedly, a lot of girls wanted to look like the girls in the music videos, but most of us didn't.  Since I turned 21 in that decade, there was a definite nightclub wear and daytime wear.  My father used to call it "dressing for success."  Depending on what you were trying to be "successful" at is how you dressed.  And there were demarcation lines.

I don't really remember the 90s fashion because I was a young mother then and it was sort of understood that married women dressed more modestly than single women.  There was this fascination, though, with the prostitute lifestyle and pornography.  But mostly women in the work force were not really trampy in their attire.  

But after that, shorts started getting shorter and blouses started getting lower.  Now it is almost impossible to shop at a retail store.  It reminds me a lot of the 70s.  

The shoes though are the thing that bothers me.  Every shoe on every woman is a stilleto.  Whores wear these.  Or women in porn movies.  Now they are everywhere.  It's hard to find a pair of shoes other than these in the stores.  

We live in a sex saturated society.  We also live in a society where fashion rules.  These young girls don't want to be made fun of by their peers, so they just go along.

In the work force, it has become almost a dare to men.  Women honestly looked like prostitutes and they are in the office buildings.  But I dare a man to look at her breasts or her legs.  You will get slapped with a sɛҳuąƖ harassment charge so quick it will make your head spin.  

So men keep silent.  I think many of them find it quietly sɛҳuąƖly arousing.  Why by a porno magazine when you can see it at work.  I wonder how many men are fantasizing in the bathroom on their lunch breaks?

So it's a combination of things.  Men are very perverse these days.  They also don't want to lose their jobs.  Women are much more daring and vain.  They find it exhilarating to have men desire them.  

Ultimately, it's the devil at work.

It can only be fixed from within.

For what it's worth.  When I was younger, I didn't want men looking at me so I dressed modestly.  When I wanted to attract a man, I dressed more provocatively.  Also when I was really into physical fitness, I was proud of my body.  My vanity allowed me to show it off shamelessly.  But I did have limits.  I was not even a Christian then.

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Malleus 01 on July 02, 2012, 01:40:12 PM
Our Lady of Fatima told the Children in 1917 "Certain fashions will be introduced which will offend My Son very much." and  "More souls go to hell because of sins of the flesh than for any other reason."

What else has to be said.

I think that the Gravity of Sin has been lost to a great degree , by all people today and especially by Catholics. Guarding Modesty may very well be the determining factor in whether or not we save our Soul.   Think about that which Our Blessed Mother Warned us.

Today - Immodesty is everywhere. Its commonplace. Therefore - it is more a threat than its ever been before , because people now have a tendency to believe because it is prevalent - that somehow it is less offensive to GOD.

We know from Fatima - Our Lord is Offended deeply and Souls are going to Hell by the Droves because of these Sins - both Women being an occasion and Men because they lack self discipline.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Incredulous on July 07, 2012, 06:51:57 PM
Quote from: alaric
Quote from: ora pro me
I recommend writing a letter to the manager of the pharmacy, insurance office, store etc. and tell them that if their receptionist or clerk doesn't dress more professionally you'll be taking your business elsewhere.  

I've written a few of these letters over the years.  Sign your name if you wish, or sign it "a customer". It might be even better if they don't know who writes the letter since they'll then be wondering each time a customer comes through the door if the person is the letter writer.  
I think I'd have writers cramp because I'd have to write so many letters and to be frank, I'm sure either they wouldn't care less or like the attention themselves ( sex sells as they say) or terrified of some kind of gender/sɛҳuąƖ harassment for the mere mention about them toning it down and  dressing somewhat more modestly.

This is the world we live in.


Don't forget to complain about the "offensive" aspect of cleavage. There are many women with cleavages that are down right disgusting.
Why does anyone have to be subjected to seeing it?

 :detective:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: PenitentWoman on July 07, 2012, 08:36:25 PM
I take it the Traditional crowd is not a big fan of Christopher West?     :thinking:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: catherineofsiena on July 07, 2012, 09:34:29 PM
Quote from: PenitentWoman
I take it the Traditional crowd is not a big fan of Christopher West?     :thinking:


NO.  Stay away from Christopher West.  His ideas are pornographic.  I've read he has a history of sinful challenges himself.  He is in no position to teach anything, particularly his made up theology.

If you want to follow traditional women who write about Catholic modesty and identity, look up Alice Von Hildebrand and Colleen Hammond.  I have not read their materials but I've checked out Colleen's blog from time to time.  There are some other names that I can't think of at the moment.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: PenitentWoman on July 08, 2012, 11:09:08 AM
Quote from: catherineofsiena
Quote from: PenitentWoman
I take it the Traditional crowd is not a big fan of Christopher West?     :thinking:


NO.  Stay away from Christopher West.  His ideas are pornographic.  I've read he has a history of sinful challenges himself.  He is in no position to teach anything, particularly his made up theology.

If you want to follow traditional women who write about Catholic modesty and identity, look up Alice Von Hildebrand and Colleen Hammond.  I have not read their materials but I've checked out Colleen's blog from time to time.  There are some other names that I can't think of at the moment.  


His books  were recommended  to me on another forum. Unfortunately, I've flipped through one,  apparently it is the less graphic one, but it still seemed odd (?)

Thank you for the names/ideas.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: ServusSpiritusSancti on July 08, 2012, 11:39:28 AM
Quote from: PenitentWoman
His books were recommended to me on another forum.


Was this forum "Catholic" Answers, by any chance?
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Roman55 on July 08, 2012, 01:05:01 PM
Quote from: alaric
What is it with woman these days exposing their cleavage at every turn everywhere? I mean everywhere you go in the marketplace some bimbo has her breasts falling our of her flimsy top so that you can't help but notice

And I'm not just talking about the young females but the aging forty and fifty somethings; many women will regress down to the lowest forms of indecency and sɛҳuąƖ degeneracy.

And this is not a thread just to bash women, I know men have a responsibility in all this but temptation and promiscuity is getting out of hand.

I think we need some kind of "humility laws" enacted, at least in the work/market place to get this over stimulation under control before our women totally whore themselves out for good and corrupt the eyes and minds of the up and coming generation.


Editing is me.
I couldn't agree more and they (the woman, for the most part, are the least attractive in every way, to be found- especially the 'over upholstered' with the 'tats' and the over friendly, "like why don't you smile?" kind of idiocy.  But self-flattery seems to be a new trend especially amongst all woman; and this has spilled into the faithful at Church. If you greet some lady with a smile and a friendly hello, she takes that to the 'moon' and starts to tell everyone you've made an 'advance' on her....I mean really! Then, all the husbands are duped by them and they start to be suspicious of your every move.  These 'ladies' are even apt to run to the priest and accuse you of 'rape'...that is how absurd it can get.  These mindless issues are infectious and evil spirits taking good souls eyes off the working out their salvation, hindering prayer life, and causing division (with all its rotten fruits).  This reminds me of the diabolical confusion of the 60's...when seeing adult "Catholics"  "drinking like Dean and Frank, loving the Beatles and Laugh In, but always going to Mass on Sunday.  Its the Devils old tricks, just a new generation.  When I read about the 'engineering' these Masons have on Society, I got the 'willies and the chills'.  The same astounding plots, ploys, tactics and craziness all makes sense to them and the effect is incredible. It can start with something as dumb as 'self-flattery'.  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: stevusmagnus on July 08, 2012, 01:08:28 PM
 "Being immodest is like covering yourself in mud, the only thing you will attract is pigs."
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Telesphorus on July 08, 2012, 01:10:53 PM
Quote
If you greet some lady with a smile and a friendly hello, she takes that to the 'moon' and starts to tell everyone you've made an 'advance' on her....I mean really!


It is feminism run amok.  They make an advance, if the man responds, they feel justified to accuse the man of harassment if by some chance they happen to become embarrassed about things.  That in itself is insane, but what is more insane is that the men, women, even the priests, will go along with what they say regardless of the truth.

Here's a quote from a woman from Latvia who came to the US:

My advice to all women who want to pursue their dreams across the ocean. America is a woman’s paradise, especially for mature women. Here all the laws revolve around the women. The woman will almost always leave the courthouse as a winner — even when it seems incredible that she could win.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Telesphorus on July 08, 2012, 01:13:26 PM
Quote
even when it seems incredible that she could win.


Except it doesn't seem incredible to American women.  They expect it.  They expect complete immunity to defraud and falsely accuse men.

Femitrads are absolutely useless as wives.  Avoid them like the plague.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Roman55 on July 08, 2012, 01:18:22 PM
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
If you greet some lady with a smile and a friendly hello, she takes that to the 'moon' and starts to tell everyone you've made an 'advance' on her....I mean really!


It is feminism run amok.  They make an advance, if the man responds, they feel justified to accuse the man of harassment if by some chance they happen to become embarrassed about things.  That in itself is insane, but what is more insane is that the men, women, even the priests, will go along with what they say regardless of the truth.

Here's a quote from a woman from Latvia who came to the US:

My advice to all women who want to pursue their dreams across the ocean. America is a woman’s paradise, especially for mature women. Here all the laws revolve around the women. The woman will almost always leave the courthouse as a winner — even when it seems incredible that she could win.


No truer words.  "Court-Room Lottery" as one slick-snake attorney once said.
 
BTW, Do you know why when lawyers die they are buried ten feet deeper than other people?

A: Because deep down they are good people!  
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Roman55 on July 08, 2012, 02:09:00 PM
Quote from: stevusmagnus
"Being immodest is like covering yourself in mud, the only thing you will attract is pigs."
 :laugh1: :laugh1:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Marcelino on July 08, 2012, 02:18:47 PM
Quote from: Roman55
Quote from: Telesphorus
Quote
If you greet some lady with a smile and a friendly hello, she takes that to the 'moon' and starts to tell everyone you've made an 'advance' on her....I mean really!


It is feminism run amok.  They make an advance, if the man responds, they feel justified to accuse the man of harassment if by some chance they happen to become embarrassed about things.  That in itself is insane, but what is more insane is that the men, women, even the priests, will go along with what they say regardless of the truth.

Here's a quote from a woman from Latvia who came to the US:

My advice to all women who want to pursue their dreams across the ocean. America is a woman’s paradise, especially for mature women. Here all the laws revolve around the women. The woman will almost always leave the courthouse as a winner — even when it seems incredible that she could win.


No truer words.  "Court-Room Lottery" as one slick-snake attorney once said.
 
BTW, Do you know why when lawyers die they are buried ten feet deeper than other people?

A: Because deep down they are good people!  


Imagine what life would be like, if every lawyer, prosecutor and judge in america had to tell the truth.  

Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Roman55 on July 08, 2012, 02:56:27 PM
 :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1: :laugh1:
That is one outstanding 'remark/question'!  Thanks!

Oh, and I forgot to add: "Blessed Art Thou Amongst Woman, and Blessed is the fruit of Thy womb, Jesus.."

Mary, Mother of God and Virgin Most Pure, pray for us.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: PenitentWoman on July 08, 2012, 03:01:33 PM
Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
Quote from: PenitentWoman
His books were recommended to me on another forum.


Was this forum "Catholic" Answers, by any chance?


Well I can't imagine why you'd think that.  :wink:

This is actually an offshoot group for women only.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: inprincipio on July 12, 2012, 12:25:44 PM
Proverbs 22:11      22 A golden ring in a swine’s snout, a woman fair and foolish.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: inprincipio on July 12, 2012, 12:40:45 PM
Saint John Chrysostom instructed women of all times about dress when in the fourth century he declared:

“You carry your snare everywhere and spread your nets in all places. You allege that you never invited others to sin. You did not, indeed, by your words, but you have done so by your dress and your deportment … When you have made another sin in his heart, how can you be innocent? Tell me, whom does this world condemn? Whom do judges punish? Those who drink poison or those who prepare it and administer the fatal potion? You have prepared the abominable cup, you have given the death-dealing drink, and you are more criminal than are those who poison the body; you murder not the body but the soul. And it is not to enemies you do this, nor are you urged on by any imaginary necessity, nor provoked by injury, but out of foolish vanity and pride.”
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: theology101 on July 13, 2012, 11:50:27 AM
What I find to be much, much worse is that parents often dress their little girls more immodestly than themselves. I'm sorry, but no eight year old girl should be wearing short shorts with the word "juicy" written across the butt...
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: inprincipio on July 13, 2012, 07:50:10 PM
This is what "cleavage" can cause.  AND it is NOT funny!  See 1:38-1:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVzCt0Y2iFA
 :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: theology101 on July 13, 2012, 08:14:16 PM
Quote from: inprincipio
This is what "cleavage" can cause.  AND it is NOT funny!  See 1:38-1:49
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVzCt0Y2iFA
 :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


O my goodness. Well, the baby was funny, I thought. Quick towel work by the one guy. And I like the way that one kid was like, 'meh' when he didn't get communion. As for the priest who dropped the Host, I can only assume that he was very trad and wanted only his sanctified hands touching the Sacred Body... of Christ, that is.

 :scratchchin:
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: inprincipio on July 13, 2012, 09:12:58 PM
I was also thinking that the priest should have used a patten.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Catechist99 on July 24, 2012, 08:44:05 PM
I must confess that I was one of those women with cleavage.  In my defense I was raised by apostate parents and was never even a Christian until I was 30.  I'm ashamed to admit that even after I became a traditionalist I still dressed immodestly out of ignorance.  And my husband didn't complain rather he complimented it.  We were both wrong and the proof of that were the numerous occasions that other men "hit on" me in public places in my husband's presence.

I am now in my mid 40's and feel incredible pressure to stay "hot" even though I am way past the state of life to be attracting men.  At times my husband encourages me to dress sexy even though it is sinful.  I'm not blaming him for my choices but I would say that even trads still want a hot wife.  This is NOT the teaching of the faith at all.

Married women, especially mothers, should NOT be sexy or hot.  Period.  They may maintain facial beauty with moderate cosmetics, but they must conceal rather than reveal their bodies.  Outside of mass a woman may adorn and dress her hair, wear perfume and tasteful Jєωelry.  It took me many years to learn this on my own because my own mother is very immodest.

Ladies, our goal should be to reflect grace, purity, and good health with our appearance.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: MrsZ on July 24, 2012, 09:26:43 PM
Catechist99: I sympathize with you.  I think many H's think that they're wives need to dress "hot" for them in and out of the house.  Many of them take pride in the knowledge that other men think their wives' are attractive.  But that is in fact encouraging the sins of lust and covetousness.  Pride and vanity are in there as well.

I think we've lost sight of the way things used to be.  Now everything is about being "hot."  Which is a sɛҳuąƖ term.  But women used to be and can be nice looking without expressly looking "hot."  

I think the only way to deal with this in a marriage is to express your reasons for not wanting to dress in an immodest way in public (or even in your house in front of your children) ... but that you will dress more alluringly for your H while in private.

I also have struggled with that issue .. because if your H is getting all his "information" about what is "hot" on the street or t.v. and movies .. is it appropriate for a W to dress like that, even in the privacy of one's own bedroom?

Think of any lovely, God-fearing woman from the past, who spends her days caring for her children, maybe her elderly mother, gives food to the poor, attends daily Mass, serves her H and cares for her home .. all while dressing very modestly ....

And then what?  She's going to dress like a streetwalker for her H in their bedroom?  I'm sorry, that just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do.

A H's lusts can be fed by inordinate attention to what "other women" are wearing and I'm just not sure a W is supposed to put herself into some kind of competition with them to please her H.

I see old movies showing lovely women wearing very feminine, modest nightgowns / dressing gowns.  They don't go out in these clothes.  But they are reserved for privacy in their own rooms.  I think there are ways to be very, very attractive in the bedroom .. without degrading oneself to keep a H's interest.

That's my hope anyway.

Sorry, you didn't exactly mention that aspect ..but the talk about clothing in general made me think of that other thing that many Christians think is fine.
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: PenitentWoman on July 24, 2012, 09:45:59 PM
 I've  wondered about what is acceptable night time attire for married ladies. I wish  I had a tradtional Mom to share those things with me. I would imagine men who are attracted  to modesty would still desire very tasteful and feminine nightgowns.  


 
Title: Cleavage....
Post by: Catechist99 on July 25, 2012, 08:20:53 AM
Quote from: PenitentWoman
I've  wondered about what is acceptable night time attire for married ladies. I wish  I had a tradtional Mom to share those things with me. I would imagine men who are attracted  to modesty would still desire very tasteful and feminine nightgowns.  


Anything feminine, meaning the opposite of masculine, would be appealing to a man.  Soft flowing fabrics, pale and shimmery colors, and curves, lots of curves which would mean flounces and ruffles.  Lace is uniquely feminine.  

The Vermont Store has many affordable yet gorgeous modest nightgowns with matching robes.  I know men love when women "match" their undergarments so the same must be true for the sleeping garments.  My H's favorite sleeping outfit of mine was a multi-blue colored long cotton gown with matching long sleeve robe.  It had a cabbage rose design.  He always commented when I wore that.  I recently bought a nightie/robe combo in black satin and lace and he has never once complimented me.  After becoming aware that it was inappropriate to wear in front of my son's I purchased a cheap pink floral zip up housecoat and H immediately complimented me the first time he saw it.  

Go figure.