Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation  (Read 1813 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1765
  • Reputation: +1446/-127
  • Gender: Female
Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
« on: June 21, 2020, 02:18:32 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • I tried the search feature since I'm sure there must be multiple volatile buried threads on this subject, but nothing pertinent comes up. I'm hoping to be directed to specific parts of the catechism or writings of the saints etc regarding these subjects. A supposedly Catholic person just floored me with the statement that there will be separate heavens for different races, and insists that being racist is not a sin. Thanks. 1MT
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #1 on: June 21, 2020, 03:06:33 AM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
    • From Pope Pius XI;

     8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.

    http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html
    Logged

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #2 on: June 21, 2020, 03:16:33 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: poche on June 21, 2020, 03:06:33 AM
    From Pope Pius XI;

     8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.

    http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html

    "The Church of Jesus Christ is the repository of His wisdom; she is certainly too wise to discourage or belittle those peculiarities and differences which mark out one nation from another. It is quite legitimate for nations to treat those differences as a sacred inheritance and guard them at all costs. The Church aims at unity, a unity determined and kept alive by that supernatural love which should be actuating everybody; she does not aim at a uniformity which would only be external in its effects and would cramp the natural tendencies of the nations concerned. Every nation has its own genius, its own qualities, springing from the hidden roots of its being. The wise development, the encouragement within limits, of that genius, those qualities, does no harm; and if a nation cares to take precautions, to lay down rules, for that end, it has the Church's approval."

    - Pope Pius XII, Summi Pontificatus, 20 October 1939

    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #3 on: June 21, 2020, 03:17:25 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Do religious and those of the same family communicate together?
    In Purgatory, as in Heaven, religious and those of the same family are not always together. Souls do not all merit the same punishment or the same reward. Still in Purgatory we do recognize others and if God permits it we may communicate with one another.


    https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6253
    Logged

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #4 on: June 21, 2020, 03:21:54 AM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on June 21, 2020, 02:18:32 AM
    A supposedly Catholic person... insists that being racist is not a sin. Thanks. 1MT

    "Racism" is a moral category invented in the 20th Century by Jєωιѕн Marxists. It goes without saying (or certainly should) that Catholics are not obligated to abide by moral categories invented by Christ's enemies. It goes without saying (or certainly should) that we should reject such moral categories.

    As to "segregation" God Almighty Himself segregated the races by separating them physically by seas, mountain ranges, vast deserts, etc. and formed physical and mental differences between the races that suited them to their native environments, and continue to "segregate" them from one another, even when they are brought artificially into close physical proximity with one another.

    If "segregation" is wrong, then what does that say? That (((multiculturalism is our strength)))? On what grounds do we reject globalism, then?

    Remember the Tower of Babel.
    Logged

    Offline Arnaldo

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 47
    • Reputation: +7/-25
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #5 on: June 21, 2020, 02:05:38 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on June 21, 2020, 02:18:32 AM
    I tried the search feature since I'm sure there must be multiple volatile buried threads on this subject, but nothing pertinent comes up. I'm hoping to be directed to specific parts of the catechism or writings of the saints etc regarding these subjects. A supposedly Catholic person just floored me with the statement that there will be separate heavens for different races, and insists that being racist is not a sin. Thanks. 1MT


    Different heavens for different races? That's a new one.  But whether or not it's a sin to be a racist depends on the definition of the term.  Here's how Webster's defines it: "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."

    It's not a sin for someone to have the opinion that race is the primary determinate of human traits or capacities.  The opinion might be right or it might be wrong, but it wouldn't be morally wrong.  

    As to the second part, if someone has concluded by life experience that a certain race is superior to another, how is that a sin?  Most races have a particular common trait or two that is better than others.  Blacks are usually good athletes, Chinese are prudent, Jєωs are greedy good savers, while whites are, of course, superior in everything else (only kidding).  And who can deny that if you put blacks together in a neighborhood, it will go down the tubes?  

    If it's not morally wrong to acknowledge racial differences, or to draw common sense general conclusions based on experiential knowledge, how can it be wrong to draw the conclusion that one race is, all things considered, superior to others?   And why would it be morally wrong to apply the general conclusion, along with other common sense factors, to a particular case by stereotyping someone?  

    None of that is morally wrong.  It's only politically incorrect.

    What would be wrong, on the other hand, is hating people because they are of a certain race, or assuming that everyone of a certain race is evil or immoral.  There are good and bad in every race. But to have the opinion that one race is superior to the others is morally indifferent, in my opinion.
    Logged

    Offline claudel

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1776
    • Reputation: +1335/-419
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #6 on: June 21, 2020, 02:52:04 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant on June 21, 2020, 02:18:32 AM

    A supposedly Catholic person just floored me with the statement that there will be separate heavens for different races, and insists that being racist is not a sin.

    Assume for a moment that the quoted sentence had read as follows: "A supposedly Catholic person just floored me by insisting that the moon is made of green cheese and that two plus two is always four, even when people don't want it to be."

    Had it been written thus, would anyone fail to see that grammar and orthodox sentence structure were being employed manipulatively; specifically, to link a plain truth with an even plainer absurdity, the object being to weaken and subvert assent to the truthful part of the statement?

    Please follow the example of BTNYC: be alert to deception via insinuation, to manipulative persuasion masquerading as rational association.
    Logged

    Offline SimpleMan

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4385
    • Reputation: +1629/-194
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #7 on: June 21, 2020, 02:59:54 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: BTNYC on June 21, 2020, 03:16:33 AM
    "The Church of Jesus Christ is the repository of His wisdom; she is certainly too wise to discourage or belittle those peculiarities and differences which mark out one nation from another. It is quite legitimate for nations to treat those differences as a sacred inheritance and guard them at all costs. The Church aims at unity, a unity determined and kept alive by that supernatural love which should be actuating everybody; she does not aim at a uniformity which would only be external in its effects and would cramp the natural tendencies of the nations concerned. Every nation has its own genius, its own qualities, springing from the hidden roots of its being. The wise development, the encouragement within limits, of that genius, those qualities, does no harm; and if a nation cares to take precautions, to lay down rules, for that end, it has the Church's approval."

    - Pope Pius XII, Summi Pontificatus, 20 October 1939

    Yes, and when explorers and colonists find some brand new real estate (at least "brand new" to those who found it!), come to various degrees of understanding (or not) with the people who are already there, settle many different nationalities upon it, some voluntarily, some not, and then keep absorbing people from every other nation under the sun for 300+ years, the results are going to be, well, interesting.

    I'm surprised it has ever worked out as well as it has.
    Logged

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2020, 06:44:11 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: SimpleMan on June 21, 2020, 02:59:54 PM
    Yes, and when explorers and colonists find some brand new real estate (at least "brand new" to those who found it!), come to various degrees of understanding (or not) with the people who are already there, settle many different nationalities upon it, some voluntarily, some not, and then keep absorbing people from every other nation under the sun for 300+ years, the results are going to be, well, interesting.

    I'm surprised it has ever worked out as well as it has.

    It's worked out as well as it has by judicious application of the Monopoly of Force, both by those legally invested with that Monopoly, and by the Majority Class, who had it through sheer force of numbers. 

    Now that the latter are fewer in number and utterly subverted and demoralized, and even the former have been neutered into inaction and dereliction of duty by (((leftists))) and their proxy warrior golems, we can see the result rapidly unfolding before our eyes: total societal collapse.

    I think we can now admit that many of the West's adventures into imperialism - and its concomitant dalliance with chattel slavery - have proven most ill advised in the long run. However, I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for those "mistakes" (none of which were made by any of my direct ancestors) by yielding the "privilege" which is nothing less than my children's birthright. 
    Logged

    Offline BTNYC

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2777
    • Reputation: +3122/-97
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #9 on: June 21, 2020, 07:03:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Arnaldo on June 21, 2020, 02:05:38 PM


    What would be wrong, on the other hand, is hating people because they are of a certain race, or assuming that everyone of a certain race is evil or immoral.  There are good and bad in every race. But to have the opinion that one race is superior to the others is morally indifferent, in my opinion.

    A sensible post, and I agree with most points you made therein.

    What you cite in the quoted and bolded portion above as being "wrong," would indeed by wrong, though its wrongness would consist in a want of charity, and an attributing to God the Creation of whole groups of people who are intrinsically and ontologically evil. That said, I've never met - or even heard of - any Catholics who espouse the latter error (it'd be pretty hard to justify, considering that the Church teaches that even Satan is not intrinsically / ontologically evil), and as for the former, yes, any Catholic should be on guard against failing in the duties of Charity, occasions for which are manifold, and which we all encounter every day.

    None of that, of course, has anything to do with the invented Jєωιѕн Marxist moral category of "Racism," however. And I believe it's a disastrous - and disastrously common - error for Catholics to use the word "racism" to refer to those aforementioned errors, and thereby grant legitimacy to that Jєωιѕн Marxist concept, and - metaphorically speaking - provide our enemies with the ammunition with which they will destroy us.

    And, inasmuch as racial bigotry is the real and grave problem that so many moderns (inside and outside the Church) believe it to be, anyone with half a brain who gives it half a moment's thought can see that it is a symptom and not the disease itself. The disease itself, from which the symptom inevitably springs, is multiculturalism. Restore religious, racial, and cultural homogeneity to a society and the disease is cured, and its symptom disappears.

    "Diversity" is indeed a strength. (((Their))) strength.
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #10 on: June 21, 2020, 11:22:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Sins against charity is what displeases God. 
    Logged

    Offline OHCA

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2833
    • Reputation: +1866/-111
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #11 on: June 21, 2020, 11:33:23 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: poche on June 21, 2020, 03:06:33 AM
    From Pope Pius XI;

     8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental value of the human community - however necessary and honorable be their function in worldly things - whoever raises these notions above their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level, distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life which that faith upholds.

    http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xi/en/encyclicals/docuмents/hf_p-xi_enc_14031937_mit-brennender-sorge.html

    Since this seems to be one of your favorite quotes, please indulge me a moment, steinberg, and give me a few examples near the threshold of the notion of race being “diviniz[ed] to an idolatrous level.”
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #12 on: June 22, 2020, 12:58:14 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: OHCA on June 21, 2020, 11:33:23 PM
    Since this seems to be one of your favorite quotes, please indulge me a moment, steinberg, and give me a few examples near the threshold of the notion of race being “diviniz[ed] to an idolatrous level.”
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #13 on: June 22, 2020, 12:58:57 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: OHCA on June 21, 2020, 11:33:23 PM
    Since this seems to be one of your favorite quotes, please indulge me a moment, steinberg, and give me a few examples near the threshold of the notion of race being “diviniz[ed] to an idolatrous level.”
    Logged

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Church Teaching on Racism/Bigotry/Segregation
    « Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 12:59:58 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: OHCA on June 21, 2020, 11:33:23 PM
    Since this seems to be one of your favorite quotes, please indulge me a moment, steinberg, and give me a few examples near the threshold of the notion of race being “diviniz[ed] to an idolatrous level.”
    Logged
    Pages: [1] 2
    « previous next »