Author Topic: Christianity Helps Women  (Read 1555 times)

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Offline poche

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Christianity Helps Women
« on: December 21, 2013, 03:17:50 AM »
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  • A researcher at Washington D.C.'s Georgetown University has found that impoverished women in India are more likely to improve their economic circumstances after converting to Christianity.

    “Conversion actually helps launch women on a virtuous circle. A woman feels better, she's part of an active faith community, she works more, she earns more money: the extra money she earns and saves encourages her to earn more and save more and plan and invest in the future,” said Rebecca Samuel Shah, research fellow at Georgetown's Berkley Center for Religion, Peace, and World Affairs.

    Shah presented her initial findings of a pilot study looking at “patterns and directions where conversion had an impact” on Dalit women in Bangalore, India at a conference on “Christianity and Freedom” held in Rome on Dec. 13-14.

    Shah and her team studied 300 women who lived in a Dalit slum community over the course of 3 years. When they began their research, they did not know that 23 percent of the women being interviewed were actually converts to Christianity.

    Dalits are considered the “outcasts” of or “pariahs” of society in India.

    “One is actually born a Dalit, you cannot leave a Dalit status. You’re born and you live and you die a Dalit,” Shah explained. “Dalits are employed in the some of the worst jobs…they scavenge, they sweep, they’re tanners. They do the smelliest, dirtiest work, and therefore they 'polute'... they’re 'untouchables.'”

    Moreover, “Dalits are not allowed to go near a (Hindu) temple, or touch a religious object that is used in worship.”

    Because “they don’t want to live on the margins” of society, “they are converting to Christianity,” she noted.Shah's study yielded some surprising results about the impact of Christian conversion on the lives of Dalit women in “a very violent urban slum.”

    The majority of Hindu, Muslim and Christian Dalit women interviewed were illiterate. Many belong to a microfinance program which gives them access to loans which they then use towards their children's education or to run a small business.

    The first “unexpected pattern” Shah encountered was in housing. “The converts converted their loans to purchasing houses, and turned dead capital into resources to generate additional capital.”

    Housing is an exceptionally important issue because “these people live in a slum community. It’s a transient community, they’re originally migrant workers, they had de facto rights to the property, but did not have legally enforceable title,” said Shah.

    The impact of home ownership is crucial, since “by being able to own a house, these poor women were able to get bank loans, commercial loans, which they didn’t have access to before that. When you have a house you can get a loan at 3 percent, instead of from a money lender at 18 percent.  So having a house is a very important investment in your future, so you can have access to very affordable credit.”

    The second “dramatic” finding in Shah’s study concerned domestic violence.  

    A national family health survey in India in 2005-2006 indicated that 86 percent of the women interviewed nationally had never told anyone that they had been abused.  

    According to Shah, this large scale study indicated that a woman’s religion was an important indicator of whether or not she would seek help. “Only 24 percent of Hindu women sought help, and 22 percent of Muslim women, but 32 percent of Christian women sought help,” she noted.

    Shah’s own study “echoed” the national health data, in that “57 percent of women – a very large number of women – actually tell their pastor” about domestic violence.

    She pointed to two key factors in the higher reporting of abuse. “These women are very closely involved, very actively involved, in their faith community. When they arrive in their weekly prayer meetings and they’ve got a gash across their face, or they’re lacking a few teeth, they get noticed.”

    Furthermore, “pastors that are usually male visit the homes, and they repeatedly visit the homes, so at some point, the husband who’s beating up his wife is shamed into stopping beating his wife.”

    This indicates a “very interesting connection” between home ownership and seeking help for domestic abuse, “because many of those women literally open the doors and bring their pastors into this very violent and very dark situation of their homes.”

    “It was a unique finding. We were not looking for this,” added Shah.

    The Georgetown researcher then pointed to the underlying factors that accompany an improvement in circumstances after conversion.

    “Conversion activates in the converts a powerful new concept of value and initiative,” she explained.

    It offers “a radically different way of seeing themselves: seeing themselves as a new creation, a new identity, made in the image of God, seeking a better life for themselves.”

    “Poverty is inherently depressing. It’s discouraging. It’s debilitating. It breeds hopelessness: ‘why bother?’” she reflected.

    Yet with a new Christian vision, “The future is not terrifying. It can be achieved. Because God is with them, they can invest in the future. It’s not something to ignore, not something to be terrified of.”

    Moreover, through the combination of a new sense of identity and access to credit in microfinance, “the converts may harness their agency and capability into investing in the future to improve their lives.”

    Conversion, then, first “changes who they believe themselves to be, it changes their self-conception, their belief in who they are, and secondly, it changes how they can change their family’s future and themselves.”

    Shah noted that although she has completed a pilot study, “we’re in the process of doing more rigorous research which will confirm these findings.”

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/christianity-helps-women-rise-out-of-poverty-economist-finds/




    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    Christianity Helps Women
    « Reply #1 on: December 21, 2013, 08:33:56 AM »
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  • Hmm I wouldn't want other nations to embrace the feminist model of "women's rights" which we seem hellbent on forcing on the rest of the world. We can see where "women's rights" has given us here and that is a massive decline of birthrates to where we're in threat of extinction.

    Anyway to borrow from feminists themselves the Bible is a very "sexist" text since St. Paul in the New Testament says that women should not preach, should not run any aspect of the Church, should cover their heads, etc. and I don't think we even need to mention the Old Testament laws on women.


    Offline stbrighidswell

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    « Reply #2 on: December 21, 2013, 11:46:54 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Hmm I wouldn't want other nations to embrace the feminist model of "women's rights" which we seem hellbent on forcing on the rest of the world. We can see where "women's rights" has given us here and that is a massive decline of birthrates to where we're in threat of extinction.

    Anyway to borrow from feminists themselves the Bible is a very "sexist" text since St. Paul in the New Testament says that women should not preach, should not run any aspect of the Church, should cover their heads, etc. and I don't think we even need to mention the Old Testament laws on women.


    Is it feminism these women practice if they say no to domestic violence?
    Is it feminism these women practice if they actually want to put a roof over their head for their family?

    I have heard of this race who are literally treated like they are no better than dog poo and a conversion hopefully for the love of God is so much better for their souls aswell as their position in life.  

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    « Reply #3 on: December 21, 2013, 12:33:11 PM »
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  • Quote from: stbrighidswell
    Is it feminism these women practice if they say no to domestic violence?


    What's your definition of domestic violence? Is it meaning that a man should have the final say on any matter? One thing you can give Islam is that they DO NOT have feminism in their way of life, even though America seems hell-bent on imposing feminism on the Islamic world.

    Quote
    Is it feminism these women practice if they actually want to put a roof over their head for their family?


    Yes, since it is the man's job to put a roof over the head of the woman and children and any woman who works takes away the job from a man.

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    I have heard of this race who are literally treated like they are no better than dog poo and a conversion hopefully for the love of God is so much better for their souls aswell as their position in life.  


    This race? Well it is obvious that some races are superior to others and one race is superior above all others. The same could be applied to genders. Men are superior to women in the sense that women don't have the competitive edge or confidence to succeed that men do.

    Now let's drop the Gloria Steinem-Betty Frieden garbage and admit that feminism comes from Jewish women. :wink:

    Offline holysoulsacademy

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    « Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 01:11:44 PM »
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  • Quote
    Now let's drop the Gloria Steinem-Betty Frieden garbage and admit that feminism comes from Jewish women. :wink:


    No TradGuy20, it comes from men who do not act like men.


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    « Reply #5 on: December 21, 2013, 05:55:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: holysoulsacademy
    No TradGuy20, it comes from men who do not act like men.


    Fair enough, however the ideals behind feminism come from Marxist and liberal ideals first of all, and in our modern day the Frankfurt School of Cultural Marxism, whose leaders were Jewish, and Jewish women like Betty Freiden and Gloria Steinem.

    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #6 on: December 21, 2013, 11:06:41 PM »
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  •  :dancing-banana:Any woman who works?????  What about single women?  Widows?  The abandoned?   I challenge any man out there to do my job.  Tradguy, where do you live, because Fran, the Dancing Ban is moving in!  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    « Reply #7 on: December 21, 2013, 11:17:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Frances
    :dancing-banana:Any woman who works?????  What about single women?  Widows?  The abandoned?   I challenge any man out there to do my job.  Tradguy, where do you live, because Fran, the Dancing Ban is moving in!  


    Well any job outside secretary, typist, salegirl, teacher, or nurse openly conflicts with a patriarchal society.

    Women should not be involved in business, medicine, law, the military, etc. since that openly conflicts with men and pushes them aside.

    The career woman these days is very vain, thinking only of herself and how well she can perform, not about the greatness of being a wife and mother by being humble, not proud.


    Offline poche

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    « Reply #8 on: December 22, 2013, 01:27:02 AM »
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  • What's your definition of domestic violence? Is it meaning that a man should have the final say on any matter? One thing you can give Islam is that they DO NOT have feminism in their way of life, even though America seems hell-bent on imposing feminism on the Islamic world.

    Beating his wife is how the original article defined domestic violence. Wife beating is contrrary to Catholic morality.  

    Offline stbrighidswell

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    « Reply #9 on: December 22, 2013, 01:55:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Quote from: stbrighidswell
    Is it feminism these women practice if they say no to domestic violence?


    What's your definition of domestic violence? Is it meaning that a man should have the final say on any matter? One thing you can give Islam is that they DO NOT have feminism in their way of life, even though America seems hell-bent on imposing feminism on the Islamic world.

    You do know that men abuse this natural order of being in charge and have beaten wives because they have had a bad day at work or because they had a few too many drinks or because they are just a bully or because the dinner was not hot enough.  I know plenty of these men and they are not Catholic even if they pretend to be.  Now it is common for women to abuse men by their feminist ways and this disgusts me every bit as much as men abusing their role as fathers and husbands  

    Quote
    Is it feminism these women practice if they actually want to put a roof over their head for their family?


    Yes, since it is the man's job to put a roof over the head of the woman and children and any woman who works takes away the job from a man.

    What if the man is not bothered about working, what if there is no man, what if he died, what if he left her with kids to run off with another woman.  There are times when the woman has to work unfortunately and it shouldn't be that way but it is there.

    Quote
    I have heard of this race who are literally treated like they are no better than dog poo and a conversion hopefully for the love of God is so much better for their souls aswell as their position in life.  


    This race? Well it is obvious that some races are superior to others and one race is superior above all others. The same could be applied to genders. Men are superior to women in the sense that women don't have the competitive edge or confidence to succeed that men do.

    All men are made in the image and likeness of God.  Yes some are born to lead some are born to work in unskilled areas but that does not take away the responsibility of all men to work towards God and bring his fellow men with him.  One of the sins crying out for vengeance is the exploitation of the poor.  But you think that condemning a race to being treated like they are vermin is fine??????? These people are not let into hospitals, schools and are literally stepped over on the street.  The Indians call them the untouchables and look at them like they are pests.

    Now let's drop the Gloria Steinem-Betty Frieden garbage and admit that feminism comes from Jewish women. :wink:



    I am far from Gloria Steinem than you can get, feminism did nothing for me or my children and I could quite happily burn them if I was allowed.  Feminism caught on very quickly and had fertile ground to work from because of attitudes like yours.  A man can do what he likes according to you as he is head of the family...not so, he has a soul to save and if he treats his wife like a punchbag he will have to answer for it.  Had men been real men as what God wants feminism would not have been a success.

    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    « Reply #10 on: December 22, 2013, 09:10:40 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    What's your definition of domestic violence? Is it meaning that a man should have the final say on any matter? One thing you can give Islam is that they DO NOT have feminism in their way of life, even though America seems hell-bent on imposing feminism on the Islamic world.

    Beating his wife is how the original article defined domestic violence. Wife beating is contrrary to Catholic morality.  


    Yes, although before 1900, before women were given rights, no one really cared what a man did to his wife. Does that mean the whole of human history was full of sexism?

    Catholic teaching also teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman and yet in the whole of human history polygamy has seemed to be a natural recourse of mankind and is more natural than homosexuality.


    Offline Traditional Guy 20

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    « Reply #11 on: December 22, 2013, 09:35:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: stbrighidswell
    You do know that men abuse this natural order of being in charge and have beaten wives because they have had a bad day at work or because they had a few too many drinks or because they are just a bully or because the dinner was not hot enough.  I know plenty of these men and they are not Catholic even if they pretend to be.  Now it is common for women to abuse men by their feminist ways and this disgusts me every bit as much as men abusing their role as fathers and husbands


    Well I would hope so, considering that feminism is the main reason right now why America, Canada, and Europe are dying. Once women were able to push men out of the workforce men were then stripped of their responsibilities of being father and husband, and went to prison on account of being in trouble.

    Quote
    What if the man is not bothered about working, what if there is no man, what if he died, what if he left her with kids to run off with another woman.  There are times when the woman has to work unfortunately and it shouldn't be that way but it is there.


    Well even in a case like that where the man runs off with another woman, it is usually because the woman in question is wearing erotic clothing to create passion for his desires to go with her.

    Quote
    All men are made in the image and likeness of God.  Yes some are born to lead some are born to work in unskilled areas but that does not take away the responsibility of all men to work towards God and bring his fellow men with him.  One of the sins crying out for vengeance is the exploitation of the poor.  But you think that condemning a race to being treated like they are vermin is fine??????? These people are not let into hospitals, schools and are literally stepped over on the street.  The Indians call them the untouchables and look at them like they are pests.


    Well in our own country Blacks and Hispanics show lower intelligence, since when you look at their cranium it has a smaller brain size than those from Europe. Because of this smaller intelligence they perfrom poor in school, one major reason as to why school test scores are at an all-time low, and get low jobs on the totem pole. To them however it is because white Americans "exploit them" and because we are "racist."

    To give another example, there is a reason I would never stop my car off the side of the road to pick up a Black or Hispanic hitchhiker and that is because they are more likely to kill me if I let them in my truck.

    You know whatever one may think of the British Empire they helped India out infinitely, giving them clean water, roads, hospitals, etc. In fact India wouldn't be advanced enough today had it not been for the British.

    Quote
    I am far from Gloria Steinem than you can get, feminism did nothing for me or my children and I could quite happily burn them if I was allowed.  Feminism caught on very quickly and had fertile ground to work from because of attitudes like yours.  A man can do what he likes according to you as he is head of the family...not so, he has a soul to save and if he treats his wife like a punchbag he will have to answer for it.  Had men been real men as what God wants feminism would not have been a success.


    So I assume that to you the whole of human history is oppression of women? In the Islamic world there has never been feminism and you can see the results: a birthrate that just keeps on rising. And feminism would have never happened had there been no Marxism or liberalism in the Western world.

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #12 on: December 22, 2013, 10:52:53 AM »
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  • Traditional Guy 20 makes pertinent and excellent points.

    Offline stbrighidswell

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    « Reply #13 on: December 22, 2013, 10:55:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Traditional Guy 20
    Quote from: stbrighidswell
    You do know that men abuse this natural order of being in charge and have beaten wives because they have had a bad day at work or because they had a few too many drinks or because they are just a bully or because the dinner was not hot enough.  I know plenty of these men and they are not Catholic even if they pretend to be.  Now it is common for women to abuse men by their feminist ways and this disgusts me every bit as much as men abusing their role as fathers and husbands


    Well I would hope so, considering that feminism is the main reason right now why America, Canada, and Europe are dying. Once women were able to push men out of the workforce men were then stripped of their responsibilities of being father and husband, and went to prison on account of being in trouble.

    Quote
    What if the man is not bothered about working, what if there is no man, what if he died, what if he left her with kids to run off with another woman.  There are times when the woman has to work unfortunately and it shouldn't be that way but it is there.


    Well even in a case like that where the man runs off with another woman, it is usually because the woman in question is wearing erotic clothing to create passion for his desires to go with her.

    It just does not occur to you at all that Men can commit sin all by themselves and not always is there a woman to blame.  If a man runs off with another woman both have committed a serious sin and both equally responsible.




    Quote
    All men are made in the image and likeness of God.  Yes some are born to lead some are born to work in unskilled areas but that does not take away the responsibility of all men to work towards God and bring his fellow men with him.  One of the sins crying out for vengeance is the exploitation of the poor.  But you think that condemning a race to being treated like they are vermin is fine??????? These people are not let into hospitals, schools and are literally stepped over on the street.  The Indians call them the untouchables and look at them like they are pests.


    Well in our own country Blacks and Hispanics show lower intelligence, since when you look at their cranium it has a smaller brain size than those from Europe. Because of this smaller intelligence they perfrom poor in school, one major reason as to why school test scores are at an all-time low, and get low jobs on the totem pole. To them however it is because white Americans "exploit them" and because we are "racist."

    I do not doubt at all that some races are superior at certain things than others. Such as the Africans are by far the more athletic and are stronger than white men.  Someone has to be the brain surgeon and someone has to be the postman.  That does not give the surgeon cart blanche to treat the postman as an inferior being and make their lives any more difficult.

    To give another example, there is a reason I would never stop my car off the side of the road to pick up a Black or Hispanic hitchhiker and that is because they are more likely to kill me if I let them in my truck.

    You know whatever one may think of the British Empire they helped India out infinitely, giving them clean water, roads, hospitals, etc. In fact India wouldn't be advanced enough today had it not been for the British.

    Quote
    I am far from Gloria Steinem than you can get, feminism did nothing for me or my children and I could quite happily burn them if I was allowed.  Feminism caught on very quickly and had fertile ground to work from because of attitudes like yours.  A man can do what he likes according to you as he is head of the family...not so, he has a soul to save and if he treats his wife like a punchbag he will have to answer for it.  Had men been real men as what God wants feminism would not have been a success.


    So I assume that to you the whole of human history is oppression of women? In the Islamic world there has never been feminism and you can see the results: a birthrate that just keeps on rising. And feminism would have never happened had there been no Marxism or liberalism in the Western world.


    Absolutely not but please if you are going to quote the muslims as role models remember they believe their women folk do not get to heaven.  They view women as objects for their own purpose and nothing more than vessels to be used.  That is wrong.  They would not think that Our Lady would deserve a place in heaven.  Ask yourself would St Joseph treat Our Lady this way.  He knew the treasure he had and he treated her kindly.  St Joseph is the ideal of a true man and Our Lady is the ideal of a true woman.  

    Offline John Grace

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    « Reply #14 on: December 22, 2013, 10:59:34 AM »
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  • stbrighidswell,

    You have missed the point made by Traditional Guy 20.I take it you are not political? I am on the side of Traditional Guy 20.


     

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