Author Topic: Children  (Read 1645 times)

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Offline chichi is my cat

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Children
« on: July 13, 2011, 01:58:58 PM »
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  • what is the largest number of children that you have seen from among Trad families?

     If one marries, there is the possibility that you could be deluged with 20 kids  :shocked:

     How do you deal with that money wise if you are not well off?

     You need to accept all of the children that God were to send you.

     One example are the Duggars but they are well off.

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #1 on: July 13, 2011, 02:03:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: chichi is my cat
    what is the largest number of children that you have seen from among Trad families?

     If one marries, there is the possibility that you could be deluged with 20 kids  :shocked:

     How do you deal with that money wise if you are not well off?

     You need to accept all of the children that God were to send you.

     One example are the Duggars but they are well off.


    In my experience there are plenty of traditional Catholics who are still single well into their 20's.  

    That's "Irish birth control": Marry late

    Seriously, though, it's hard to have 20 children when you can't find a decent spouse until well into your twenties (or later).

    And unless husband and wife both work, or for some other reason the baby is weaned "ASAP", you're not going to have kids 1 year apart.

    Fertility also tapers off. Plenty of modern Americans (both Catholic and non-Catholic) hear about women giving birth at 49 years old, but seem to conveniently forget the part of the story where she underwent expensive in-vitro fertilization.

    There is actually an epidemic of ignorance about fertility. How many women are waiting until their "low 30's, the perfect time!" to have kids, only to find out they CAN'T. Male fertility isn't static either.

    I'm serious -- it seems like some people have a VERY simplistic/ignorant notion about fertility "I hear about women giving birth in their 40's. 33 < 40, so I'm good to go!"

    Nevermind the fact that fertility goes down little by little over the years.

    I hope this helps.
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    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2011, 02:06:24 PM »
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  • I've seen a family where I go to Mass with 15.

    I don't like your terminology when you say, "deluged" with 20 "kids."

    This is disturbing to me.

    God gives you what you can handle, and no more.

    Think about the fact that God loves the poor. How much more does He love those that have the Faith?

    I have one on the way, and 5 already. I am not scared in the least of having more, because I leave that up to God. I have 8 (give or take) more years to have children before I would be physically unable to have more children.

    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #3 on: July 13, 2011, 02:09:05 PM »
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  • Yes, I agree some people worry too much, often for nothing.

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    Offline momofmany

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    « Reply #4 on: July 13, 2011, 02:57:11 PM »
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  • I've been attending traditional Catholic chapels all over the US for 20 years and used to run a traditional Catholic mothers email loop for many years. I no longer run it but it's still going and we've all been in touch for 15 years or so. I've got a fairly large sample to observe.

    I have two friends with 15 children, a sil with 12 and another sil with 13. All these women stopped having successful pregnancies by 45.  I have more than a handful of friends with only 1 child and that was by *GOD*'s design, not theirs.
    Of the dozens of Catholic women I consider friends, all faithful Catholics who do not use birth control family size is on a bell curve. A few with 1-2, a few with 12-15 with the average settling around 7-9. Fertility is finite and decreases with age. If you truly trust God then you don't count off how many babies YOU think you will have because YOU don't know. God does. I have a sil who had 3 girls in 3 years..oh no a baby year she is going to end up with 20 kids!! nope, she had 1 more girl a few years later and then God closed up shop. I've got a dear friend who has 3 children and has been waiting for more. Nope. Not in His plan.
    There is nothing wrong with a small family, remember the Holy Family was small too.

    The only one of all my friends with more than 9 children in the house at once is my friend with 15. She has 15 under 17. She is highly unusual. The rest of us, even with 'super-sized' families? Don't have more than 9 children at home at a time. They do grow up and move on. My other friend with 15? Had her last two after she was already a grandmother :D

    This whole fear that someone will be 'deluged' with 20 children is quite unrealistic. A large family isn't some kind of punishment and unless you use unethical technology the babies come 1 and possibly 2 at a time (I have three friends whose #9 and #10 were twins). We don't have 10 2 year olds to contend with or 7 hormonal 14 yo girls.  Having 4 under 6 or 5 under 8 can be overwhelming for a few years but it doesn't last long. Before you know it you have helpful tweens and teens.

    So stop counting everyone elses blessings, stop calculating future fertility based on limited info...just live your life and do the best you can for your children and be supportive of the other families in your parish. This really isn't hard.


    Offline Kailyn

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    « Reply #5 on: July 13, 2011, 03:17:40 PM »
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  • In all fairness to the OP, I think his/her concern *was* doing the best for future children - i.e. feeding them and keeping a roof over their heads.  

    Perhaps what would be more helpful then second guessing fertility rates would be a discussion of how families with many children who are not well off make ends meet?

    Offline the smart sheep

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    « Reply #6 on: July 13, 2011, 03:30:18 PM »
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  • I'm an "Irish twin", anybody else?

    My father has 43 grandchildren and counting.  :baby:

    Have as many children as God will give you. He will provide.

    sheep

    Offline chichi is my cat

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    « Reply #7 on: July 13, 2011, 04:03:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    I've seen a family where I go to Mass with 15.

    I don't like your terminology when you say, "deluged" with 20 "kids."

    This is disturbing to me.

    God gives you what you can handle, and no more.

    Think about the fact that God loves the poor. How much more does He love those that have the Faith?

    I have one on the way, and 5 already. I am not scared in the least of having more, because I leave that up to God. I have 8 (give or take) more years to have children before I would be physically unable to have more children.



     I am saying that many trads have a lot of kids and I am not against that. I am just wondering how do the finances of having a large family work out.


    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 04:35:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: chichi is my cat
    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    I've seen a family where I go to Mass with 15.

    I don't like your terminology when you say, "deluged" with 20 "kids."

    This is disturbing to me.

    God gives you what you can handle, and no more.

    Think about the fact that God loves the poor. How much more does He love those that have the Faith?

    I have one on the way, and 5 already. I am not scared in the least of having more, because I leave that up to God. I have 8 (give or take) more years to have children before I would be physically unable to have more children.



     I am saying that many trads have a lot of kids and I am not against that. I am just wondering how do the finances of having a large family work out.


    I'll give you the unequivocal answer to which there can be no argument:

    God takes care of it.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline momofmany

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    « Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 04:41:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: chichi is my cat
    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    I've seen a family where I go to Mass with 15.

    I don't like your terminology when you say, "deluged" with 20 "kids."

    This is disturbing to me.

    God gives you what you can handle, and no more.

    Think about the fact that God loves the poor. How much more does He love those that have the Faith?

    I have one on the way, and 5 already. I am not scared in the least of having more, because I leave that up to God. I have 8 (give or take) more years to have children before I would be physically unable to have more children.



     I am saying that many trads have a lot of kids and I am not against that. I am just wondering how do the finances of having a large family work out.


    TBH, they don't always work out. Fathers are laid off, family members become ill, mothers die, some men marry before they have any skills or education for more than a minimum wage job. When that happens hopefully family, friends and fellow parishioners step in to help. WIC and Medicaid are often utilized by families who are having trouble making ends meet.
    It isn't easy being primary breadwinner for a large family but it is not impossible.
    The men who make a higher wage have it easier in some ways, harder in others. Along with a higher wage usaully comes more responsibilty and often longer more stressful hours away from home.

    Some occupations of fathers of large families that we are personally friends with:
    drywaller, fireman, fighter pilot, airline pilot, dir of purchasing for a medium sized city, court reporter and a few who are self employed. For example, the man who owns and runs Aquinas and More Catholic Goods store is a father of 10.

    My husband makes a good wage but we are hand to mouth and often come up short but when it seems that when we think we are going to be in trouble for  a week some little extra money comes our way. Just a few weeks ago we got a $200 check from a lab company from a hospital visit over 2 years ago. Completely out of the blue.

    You have to trust in God and also use prudence. Of course striking that balance between trust and prudence can be tricky. A young man with no means to support himself let along a wife and children has no business getting married but at what point/salary/wage etc...should a young man be considered 'good enough' to support a family? That is quite subjective. When my grandfather proposed to my grandmother he had enough money saved to buy their first house outright. Is that reasonable now? Not really. But what is?

    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 04:56:42 PM »
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  • One should not confuse adroitness and sagacity with prudence.

    Prudence is a cardinal virtue. Adroitness and sagacity are intellectual gifts.

    One does not need adroitness and sagacity to be a father, however, in moral issues, they do need to exercise prudence, which is defined as an intellectual habit enabling us to see in any given juncture of human affairs what is virtuous and what is not, and how to come at the one and avoid the other. This is referring to moral, and not to material things. If one is prudent, it will follow that they will make the correct material distinctions on what is a prudent act. But to apply the virtue of prudence to someone devoid of morals is quite erroneous.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 04:57:46 PM »
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  • How to raise a Catholic family in the modern (messed-up) economy is a subject for a whole sub-forum, not just a thread :)

    There are lots of threads here on CathInfo about frugality and living simply.

    Matthew
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    Offline parentsfortruth

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    « Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 05:07:38 PM »
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  • The world today focuses way too much on material possessions, and not enough on what parents' jobs are when it comes to eternity, which is sending souls to heaven via their parenting.

    Everyone worries about college education costs, vacations, vehicles... in general, STUFF.

    God takes care of the things we need. If He sends us an immortal soul to be in charge of, then He will send what is necessary to get that soul to heaven.

    In the modern world, people doubt this, and try to make excuses as to why they should not follow a divine plan in their lives, and want to control things on their own, not really relying on God, but relying on what appears to be ideally (in a material sense) their idea of "financially sound."

    This world is temporary. We all came into the world with nothing, and none of us are taking anything with us when we leave.

    Instead of making things so complicated, it should be viewed simply. God is going to take care of everything.

    We should be happy if God sends us sufferings because that means He's paying attention to us, and is giving us opportunities to gain more graces in heaven. If we unduly avoid these sufferings out of selfishness, we're doing it to our own detriment, at least, through not obtaining the graces we could be by accepting the will of God, and at the worst, to the loss of our souls.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline momofmany

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    « Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 05:42:39 PM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth

    God takes care of the things we need. .


    yes, he does and there are many ways He may provide.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 07:39:59 PM »
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  • Whenever I see a family that has a lot children attending Mass and receiving the Sacraments devoutly, it provides such a wonderful consolation and it edifies me in a way that I cannot express in words.

    If a man and his wife can raise children and they as a family strive to live good Catholic lives (whether at home, at Mass, at the social halls after Mass, &c.), it enables one to attain to a radiant glimpse of the unfathomable power of God's holy grace to rehabilitate communities, societies and nations, and restore Holy Mother Church, even in these dark days.

    The attack upon Christendom that has brought about the present-day crises did not begin with the Prelates of the upper ecclesiastical hierarchies, nor did it begin with the dignitaries that ruled over the various republics and federations: it began with the family, with the destruction of masculinity by means of vice and effeminacy (the attack upon fatherhood), with a delusional and self-destructive enfranchisement of women (the attack upon Christian womanhood and motherhood), and with the poisoning of the printed press, secularized education, and the celebration a false supra-ethical economy in the media (e.g., Disney) that led directly to the outright cultural glorification and political institutionalization of immorality (the attack upon children and youth).

    To see a big family comporting themselves in a reverent and decorous manner at Mass and elsewhere does not really remind me of "the ways things were," rather it presages "the way things ought to be" and shall be if we only cooperate with grace; of the glorious restoration of the Christian family and of civilization that Our Lord will vouchsafe us through the Immaculate Heart of His Mother.
    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

     

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