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Author Topic: Childless Marriages  (Read 1796 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Childless Marriages
« on: October 19, 2013, 10:06:41 PM »
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    • What sin is it considered for a Catholic couple to get married, decide to remain perpetually continent, and never have children?

    (This is a variant of the "Josephite Marriage" questions that have been frequently cropping up here.)

    Wouldn't this be contrary to the primary end of marriage: the raising and educating of children?
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    Offline poche

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    « Reply #1 on: October 19, 2013, 10:26:44 PM »
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    • It is not a sin.
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #2 on: October 19, 2013, 10:33:31 PM »
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    • If a couple got married and never intended to have children, they wouldn't actually be married.  

    I suppose in a weird objective sort of way, one could say that they are causing scandal by cohabiting.  But presumably they and everyone they know believes they're married, so it's not really scandal.

    It makes a mockery of the sacrament, though.  To "marry" without any intention of begetting or raising children.
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    Offline poche

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    « Reply #3 on: October 19, 2013, 10:35:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    If a couple got married and never intended to have children, they wouldn't actually be married.  

    I suppose in a weird objective sort of way, one could say that they are causing scandal by cohabiting.  But presumably they and everyone they know believes they're married, so it's not really scandal.

    It makes a mockery of the sacrament, though.  To "marry" without any intention of begetting or raising children.

    If the couple got married and remained continent there would be no sin. If the couple got married and used artificial contraception in order to remain childless then there would be major sin there.
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    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #4 on: October 20, 2013, 04:12:13 AM »
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    • If a couple remain continent they are not married. To be a marriage, it must be consumated.
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    Offline poche

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    « Reply #5 on: October 20, 2013, 05:08:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir
    If a couple remain continent they are not married. To be a marriage, it must be consumated.

    How do you explain this from Canon Law?

    Can.  1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.

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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    « Reply #6 on: October 20, 2013, 09:10:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Mithrandylan
    If a couple got married and never intended to have children, they wouldn't actually be married.  

    I suppose in a weird objective sort of way, one could say that they are causing scandal by cohabiting.  But presumably they and everyone they know believes they're married, so it's not really scandal.

    It makes a mockery of the sacrament, though.  To "marry" without any intention of begetting or raising children.

    If the couple got married and remained continent there would be no sin. If the couple got married and used artificial contraception in order to remain childless then there would be major sin there.


    Poche, one thing that makes a valid marriage is consent.  A person who does not consent to the primary end of marriage does not  marry validly.  It would be like someone signing a contract to perform a job, without ever intending to perform the job.  It's not a valid contract.
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    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #7 on: October 20, 2013, 09:55:10 AM »
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    •  :confused1:Why would anyone want to do this?  If it's not a Josephine marriage, what's the point?  Why not remain single?  Doesn't make sense according to natural law.  It sounds like getting a roommate and calling it a marriage for reasons other than children.  But then it's not a marriage!
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    Offline Frances

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    « Reply #8 on: October 20, 2013, 11:19:29 AM »
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    • Correction and Response:-- Make that "Josephite" instead of "Josephine."  This crazy tablet automatically edits.  
    Not necessarily!  While an elderly couple may not engage in marital relations, they are free to enjoy other physical intimacy as is desired so long as it is not sinful, and so long as they are open to receiving the children God may send; a miraculous birth.  But this is not a Josephite marriage.  
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    Offline Nadir

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    « Reply #9 on: October 20, 2013, 09:14:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Nadir
    If a couple remain continent they are not married. To be a marriage, it must be consumated.

    How do you explain this from Canon Law?

    Can.  1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.



    That Canon implies that non-consummated marriage can be annulled. The possibility of annullment means that there was never a marriage if it has not been consumated. This putative couple married with the intention never to consummate the marriage. It really is very simple; if they don't intend to consumate the marriage, they don't intend to marry.

    Frances put it succinctly:
    Quote
    getting a roommate and calling it a marriage for reasons other than children. But then it's not a marriage!


    I am saying: getting a roommate and calling it a marriage for reasons other than children consumating the marriage. But then it's not a marriage!
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    Offline Zeitun

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    « Reply #10 on: October 20, 2013, 11:14:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Nadir
    If a couple remain continent they are not married. To be a marriage, it must be consumated.

    How do you explain this from Canon Law?

    Can.  1142 For a just cause, the Roman Pontiff can dissolve a non-consummated marriage between baptized persons or between a baptized party and a non-baptized party at the request of both parties or of one of them, even if the other party is unwilling.



    Because a couple can marry with the intention of begetting children and one of the parties can freak out and refuse to consummate the marriage.  There are cases of a party not realizing sɛҳuąƖ relations are required in marriage.  

    A couple who marries with the intention of not consummating are NOT married. This would also apply if one of the parties secretly plans to not consummate or not have children.  
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    Offline Cantarella

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    « Reply #11 on: October 20, 2013, 11:50:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan
    If a couple got married and never intended to have children, they wouldn't actually be married.  

    I suppose in a weird objective sort of way, one could say that they are causing scandal by cohabiting.  But presumably they and everyone they know believes they're married, so it's not really scandal.

    It makes a mockery of the sacrament, though.  To "marry" without any intention of begetting or raising children.


    Hey Mithrandylan, finally we can agree on something  :smile:
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