Author Topic: Check your Bible ! (Read 991 times)

Miseremini · « **on:** November 29, 2022, 10:45:53 PM »

Fasting removed from Bibles after 1960

https://www.lifesitenews.com/episodes/astonishing-bibles-after-1960-withheld-best-weapon-against-satan/?utm_source=daily-canada-2022-11-30&utm_medium=email

Miseremini · « **Reply #1 on:** November 29, 2022, 11:08:09 PM »

Remember the curses in the 4th and 3rd last verses of the Bible.

The Apocalypse chapter 22

18. For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.

19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

Nadir · « **Reply #2 on:** November 29, 2022, 11:49:30 PM »

I wonder why he doesn’t give any examples, or name the particular versions.
This looks more like an advertisement for his precious metals partnership.

Miseremini · « **Reply #3 on:** November 30, 2022, 12:24:04 AM »

Sorry, I used the wrong link. Should have been this written one.

Did you know there's a missing Bible verse in the Gospel of Matthew? - LifeSite

Miseremini · « **Reply #4 on:** November 30, 2022, 12:28:50 AM »

error

Mark 79 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 30, 2022, 01:01:04 AM »

This is far from exhaustive, but does bullet point several problems with a variety of "Bibles," especially the "Hebrew Bible" and the homo's KJV: http://judaism.is/hebrew-bible.html

See also:

The Canon of the Old Testament by Bp. Tobias Mullen (Co-author: Monsignor Thomas A. Casey, whose death is shrouded in mystery). This rather large book very extensively covers how the canon of the Old Testament came to be, which "version" is the correct one, and details how it was mutilated, and by whom. download here: https://judaism.is/assets/mullen--canon_of_ot.pdf

A Discovery of the Manifold Corruptions of the Holy Scriptures by Fr. Gregory Martin. Published in 1582, but still very relevant today. In this book, Fr. Martin proves conclusively that the Protestants have deliberately mistranslated the Bible to remove anything Catholic, and goes into the original Greek and Hebrew to prove his points. Never be confused by Protestant arguments again! download here: https://judaism.is/assets/martin_-manifold-corruptions.pdf

TKGS · « **Reply #6 on:** November 30, 2022, 06:42:59 AM »

The verse in question is literally skipped in the bible used by the USCCB:

https://bible.usccb.org/bible/matthew/17

They do have a footnote at the end of the webpage that says that the verse in included in "some variants". The fasting aspect is also deleted from this account in Mark.

I keep thinking that the Conciliar sect can't surprise or shock me anymore...but they keep surprising and shocking me!

DecemRationis · « **Reply #7 on:** November 30, 2022, 07:35:18 AM »

Quote from: Mark 79 on November 30, 2022, 01:01:04 AM

This is far from exhaustive, but does bullet point several problems with a variety of "Bibles," especially the "Hebrew Bible" and the homo's KJV: http://judaism.is/hebrew-bible.html

See also:

The Canon of the Old Testament by Bp. Tobias Mullen (Co-author: Monsignor Thomas A. Casey, whose death is shrouded in mystery). This rather large book very extensively covers how the canon of the Old Testament came to be, which "version" is the correct one, and details how it was mutilated, and by whom. download here: https://judaism.is/assets/mullen--canon_of_ot.pdf

A Discovery of the Manifold Corruptions of the Holy Scriptures by Fr. Gregory Martin. Published in 1582, but still very relevant today. In this book, Fr. Martin proves conclusively that the Protestants have deliberately mistranslated the Bible to remove anything Catholic, and goes into the original Greek and Hebrew to prove his points. Never be confused by Protestant arguments again! download here: https://judaism.is/assets/martin_-manifold-corruptions.pdf

Mark,

Excellent. Thanks for the links.

I've always used the Septuagint in my Bible study as authoritative Scripture. It's legitimacy is proved by the citation of it - and not the Hebrew - in the majority of the OT quotations in the New Testament. The articles you linked just amplify that with reference to the Dead Sea scrolls, etc.

Now this will be a bit complicated, and I wish I had time to fully develop this, but I'll give a very prominent and significant example of the value and legitimacy of the Septuagint: Romans 9:28.

Of course, St. John refers to Our Lord as "the Word" in the first chapter of his gospel. In Greek, the "word" is λόγος, transliterated as "logos." In Romans 9:28, St. Paul uses the same Greek word. If you use Strong's reference system as a tool, "logos" has the number in that system of 3056.

Here's Romans 9:28 with the Strong's number after where it appears in the Greek text:

Quote

Rom 9:28

For he will finish the work,^G3056 and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work^G3056 will the Lord make upon the earth.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3056/kjv/tr/0-4/#lexResults

St. Paul, in the original Greek of the NT in Romans, quotes the Greek Septuagint, "logos," in this verse. That's the King James version from the linked website. Notice how the KJV translates "logos" as "work" there.

What is St. Paul citing there? He's citing Isaiah 10:22, which in the Septuagint has "logos," the same Greek word in Romans 9:28.

The Hebrew lacks a a word equivalent to the Greek "logos" (or English "word") in this verse at Isaiah, obscuring the reference to Our Lord. Here's the KJV - which uses the Masoretiic Hebrew text - translation of Isaiah 10:22-23:

Quote

10:22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

10:23 For the Lord GOD of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

No reference to the "word."

Unfortunately, the Douay Rheims doesn't use the Septuagint either in translating Isaiah 10:22-23.

Quote

22For if thy people, O Israel, shall be as the sand of the sea, a remnant of them shall be converted, the consumption abridged shall overflow with justice.

23For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, and an abridgment in the midst of all the land.

It follows the KJV in using the Hebrew, Masoretic text word כָּלָה, which in the numbering system for the Hebrew in Strong's is 3617 - translated as "consumption" by the KJV and DR - and which replaces the Greek "logos," or "word" in the Septuagint. Unfortunately, St. Jerome also followed the Hebrew it appears in Isaiah 10, using the Latin words "consummatio"and "Consummationem."

Here's an interlinear Greek/English of the Septuagint of Isaiah 10:22-23:

Quote

[ is.10.22 ] και [AND] εαν [AS] γενηται [HAS] ο [THE] λαος [PEOPLE] ισραηλ [ISRAEHL] ως [AS] η [THE] αμμος [SAND] της [THE] θαλασσης [SEA] το [THE] καταλειμμα [A VESTIGE] αυτων [OF THEM] σωθησεται [SHALL BE DELIVERED] λογον [WORD] γαρ [FOR] συντελων [IS BEING COMPLETED] και [AND] συντεμνων [BEING RENDERED CONCISE] εν [IN] δικαιοσυνη [RIGHTEOUSNESS]

[ is.10.23 ] οτι [THAT] λογον [WORD] συντετμημενον [IS THE ONE RENDERING CONCISE] ποιησει [WILL DO] ο [THE] θεος [GOD] εν [IN] τη [THE] οικουμενη [INHABITABLE WORLD] ολη [ALL]

Dickey, Joshua. Interlinear Greek Old Testament Septuagint (Kindle Locations 176778-176795). . Kindle Edition.

To paraphrase the Greek Sept. of Isaiah 10:22 and 10:23, "the WORD [Our Lord] is being completed and rendered concise in righteousness," and it is "the WORD [GOD as CHRIST]" Himself who is rendering the world concise in "righteousness" - the "rendering concise" being translated as "cut it short" the KJV.

Now, significantly in Romans 9:28 the DR (and the St. Jerome in the Vulgate, using "Verbum") does highlight the wisdom and truth of the Scriptures by literally following the Septuagint "word" in its translation:

Quote

For he shall finish his word, and cut it short in justice; because a short word shall the Lord make upon the earth.

Unfortunately, the connection between Isaiah 10:22-23 and Romans 9:28 is not clear in the DR and Vulgate translation of Isaiah 10:22-23, but the significant and more important relation between Romans 9:28 and Isaiah 10:22-23 in the Septuagint is preserved and highlighted by the DR and Vulgate translations using "word" and "verbum" in Romans 9:28.

Now, I guess a Greek scholar - which of course I'm not, concedo - can make the argument that the KJV's translation of "logos" as "work" is justifiable, but it's clear that the connection between the Sept. of Isaiah 10 and Romans 9:28, which is pointed to in the DR and Vulgate by its translation of "logos" as "word," is "lost in translation" in the KJV. By using "word" for "logos" in Romans 9:28, the DR and Vulgate make explicit the role of Our Lord, whom Jeremiah calls "our righteousness," in completing God's work and plan in putting away sin.

As I said, this gets very complicated, but the Sept. word for "rendering concise," translated in the KJV and DR as "cut short," also appears in the Sept. of Daniel 9, which famously makes a prophesy of Our Lord. The Greek word is συντέμνω, which in the Strong's numbering system is 4932.

Here's Daniel 9:24 in the interlinear Greek/English:

Quote

[ da.9.24 ] εβδομηκοντα [SEVENTY] εβδομαδες [PERIODS OF SEVEN] συνετμηθησαν [WERE RENDERED CONCISE] επι [AT] τον [THE] λαον [PEOPLE] σου [YOU] και [AND] επι [AT] την [THE] πολιν [A CITY] την [THE] αγιαν [HOLY] σου [YOU] του [THE] συντελεσθηναι [TO FINISH OFF] αμαρτιαν [SIN] και [AND] του [THE] σφραγισαι [TO SET A SEAL] αμαρτιας [SINS] και [AND] απαλειψαι [TO WIPE OUT] τας [THE] ανομιας [LAWLESSNESSES] και [AND] του [THE] εξιλασασθαι [TO ATONE] αδικιας [INIQUITIES] και [AND] του [THE] αγαγειν [TO BRING] δικαιοσυνην [RIGHTEOUSNESS] αιωνιον [EVERLASTING] και [AND] του [THE] σφραγισαι [TO SET A SEAL] ορασιν [VISION] και [AND] προφητην [THE PROPHET] και [AND] του [THE] χρισαι [TO ANOINT] αγιον [HOLY PLACE] αγιων [HOLY PLACE]

Dickey, Joshua. Interlinear Greek Old Testament Septuagint (Kindle Locations 221751-221775). . Kindle Edition.

Here's the DR translation of Daniel 9:24:

Quote

[24] Seventy weeks are shortened upon thy people, and upon thy holy city, that transgression may be finished, and sin may have an end, and iniquity may be abolished; and everlasting justice may be brought; and vision and prophecy may be fulfilled; and the saint of saints may be anointed.

The Greek word for "finish off" or "finish" (DR) is συντελεω, Strong's number 4931, a word related to the word translated as "rendered concise" (Strong's 4932), and you can see it in the lettering.

So the DR glorifies Christ and His work of redemption in signaling the clear connection between Isaiah 10:22-23, Daniel 9:24 and Romans 9:28 by using the Sept. Greek for "word" (Logos, Our Lord), the Word (Logos, Our Lord) that is finishing or cutting short the transgression (Dan. 9:24) - and effectively sealed it at Calvary, and now working it out in time until the consummation or completion of the age - in righteousness (Isaiah 10:22-23).

There is so much more here, and it gets very deep. The Septuagint is worth your meditation and study. Some of the connections that are revealed between it and the New Testament are wonderful and striking, and I hope I gave a sense of that above.

Mark, that's again for those links, which, in elevating the Sept. and pointing out its divergence from the Jєω's corrupted Masoretic text, shows the supremacy of our beloved DR (and Vulgate) over the KJV, and the Catholic Church's true role as the New Israel in preserving and proclaiming God's Word.

DR

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** November 30, 2022, 07:45:01 AM »

Quote from: TKGS on November 30, 2022, 06:42:59 AM

The verse in question is literally skipped in the bible used by the USCCB:

https://bible.usccb.org/bible/matthew/17

They do have a footnote at the end of the webpage that says that the verse in included in "some variants". The fasting aspect is also deleted from this account in Mark.

I keep thinking that the Conciliar sect can't surprise or shock me anymore...but they keep surprising and shocking me!

I'd love to see what they base this on ... some obscure version of the Greek text somewhere, probably accidentally omitted by a scribe. It's very easy when you're transcribing a Bible to just skip a verse. That's why you usually compare a number of different manuscripts.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #9 on:** November 30, 2022, 08:03:50 AM »

https://carm.org/king-james-onlyism/was-matthew-1721-removed-from-modern-bibles/

I found this here. So to fair, there are some older manuscripts that are missing this verse. Just ignore the Modernist crap at the end of the link above.

If you look at it though, it would seem that the significant majority of them do have it. So the Modernists have this simplistic view of looking at Manuscripts, where they go with the "oldest" one that they have ... except that the others out there are undoubtedly based on some older edition, even if the original of that older one is no longer extant.

Catholic rule of thumb should be that if it's in the Vulgate, it should be included in Sacred Scripture because St. Jerome probably had access to manuscripts that are older than what we have around today.

Drolo · « **Reply #10 on:** November 30, 2022, 08:19:11 AM »

Checked. Nácar Colunga 21th edition. It has a letter from Vatican to the director of the editorial dated from 1965. So I guess that's the publication date.

Okay: Matthew 17:20-21

There is not remove. Fasting = Ayuno. Player: Oración.

This verse has an annotation:

Says that this verse is omitted in many códices and versions and It's supposed to come from Mark 9 29.

But the verse is here. To make the images look well you have to right click and open image in new tab.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #11 on:** November 30, 2022, 08:35:20 AM »

On Michael Hoffman's website-I hope to get this .

Banned and burned — the New Testament that would not die — back in print for the first time in nearly a hundred years

“Every corner of England was searched for those books (Rheims New Testaments) — the ports were laid for them, Paul’s Cross is witness of burning many of them, the Prince’s proclamation was procured against them; in the universities by sovereign authority colleges, chambers, studies, closets, coffers and desks were ransacked for them.”

Which New Testament is the most banned and hunted in western history? It is a New Testament you have never heard of — and yet perhaps you have!

Answer: The Rheims New Testament of 1582.

There’s no doubt that a New Testament by the name of Rheims (or “Douay-Rheims” in the case of the entire Bible), will be found in many contemporary Catholic bookshops, and even well-stocked Protestant stores, as well as on the Internet.

But those so-called “Rheims” were actually re-written by Bishop Richard Challoner and though they bear the name “Rheims,” churchmen ranging from Cardinal Nicholas Wiseman to Scripture exegete and translator Msgr. Ronald Knox, have protested against calling the Challoner New Testament, “Rheims.”

The original and true Rheims first published by fugitive Catholic scholars in France, is a slavishly faithful translation of St. Jerome’s Latin Vulgate. It has been out print for nearly a hundred years. We have faithfully printed verbatim the New Testament text of the original, but in modern type and spelling, with easy-to-read, large print. Our edition includes a new introduction by historian Michael Hoffman, and another by Benedictine scholar Gilbert Roger Hudleston, O.S.B.

This is the New Testament that would not die. The Latin Vulgate in English, the authentic voice of Britain’s repressed and hunted Catholics, has returned to print. Smuggled into Britain more than four hundred years ago, it is the magnum opus of the English Counter-Reformation.

From a Lutheran customer:

"I’ve never been a King James-only man and when I learned that the translators of the King James Version quietly used the Rheims New Testament in their work I was determined to study it. Your authentic Rheims has been a great read and I’ve been blessed by it!"— Bill, Pennsylvania

From a lady-buyer in Canada:

“I received the new Rheims New Testament but the American friend I showed it to was so impressed with it I had to give it to her. You would have loved to see her gratitude and delight. I will order another one for myself and maybe two in the event I have another friend so affected! May Our Lord Jesus Christ richly bless you.” Diane

Quality softcover. 8.3 x 5.4 inches. Introductions: 45 pages.

Text: 533 pages. 578 pages total. View a sample page here.

Read free of charge online:

"Translating the Bible into English at Rheims" By J.H. Pollen

For shipping purposes, please select from the menu according to whether you are a U.S., Canadian or Overseas customer:

USA customer for The 1582 Rheims New Testament:

Ladislaus · « **Reply #12 on:** November 30, 2022, 08:37:11 AM »

Quote from: Drolo on November 30, 2022, 08:19:11 AM

Says that this verse is omitted in many códices and versions and It's supposed to come from Mark 9 29.

Yeah, it's a bit misleading from LifeSite to claim that Modern Bibles removed it after 1960. There are early manuscripts that are missing the verse.

Some very few have Mark 9:29 missing the "... and fasting" piece, but all the evidence suggests that it was in fact there, with very little support for dropping the "... and fasting" part. And having the line say "and this kind is not expelled except through prayer" doesn't make any sense. Every attempt to exorcize a demon would involve prayer and would in fact be prayer in itself.

Then with the verse in St. Matthew, the evidence there also strongly suggests that the verse was there in the original and that the manuscripts that omitted it were due to a copyist's error.

When in any doubt, go with St. Jerome. Period. He was early enough where they had access to the best manuscripts, and the Apostolic Tradition was still very fresh.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 30, 2022, 09:16:36 AM »

Quote from: josefamenendez on November 30, 2022, 08:35:20 AM

On Michael Hoffman's website-I hope to get this .

Banned and burned — the New Testament that would not die — back in print for the first time in nearly a hundred years

…

This is the 1610 A.D. Douay Old Testament and the 1582 A.D. Rheims New Testament in Old English:

https://judaism.is/assets/douay-rheims-1610-bible.pdf

Yeti · « **Reply #14 on:** November 30, 2022, 09:21:23 AM »

At the end of the Apocalypse it says:

Quote

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

The passage in which these words occur is read on one of the Sundays in the new Mass, and this verse is omitted from the passage.

Author Topic: Check your Bible ! (Read 991 times)

Miseremini

Check your Bible !

Miseremini

Re: Check your Bible !

Nadir

Re: Check your Bible !

Miseremini

Re: Check your Bible !

Miseremini

Re: Check your Bible !

Mark 79

Re: Check your Bible !

TKGS

Re: Check your Bible !

DecemRationis

Re: Check your Bible !

Ladislaus

Re: Check your Bible !

Ladislaus

Re: Check your Bible !

Drolo

Re: Check your Bible !

josefamenendez

Re: Check your Bible !

Ladislaus

Re: Check your Bible !

Mark 79

Re: Check your Bible !

Yeti

Re: Check your Bible !