Author Topic: Car seats for children (Read 1409 times)

Thed0ctor · « **on:** August 15, 2023, 01:20:00 PM »

So I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on car seats for kids. Is this something that's actually helpful or just a cash grab? Sometimes I wonder like with other "conventional" things

FarmerWife · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2023, 01:40:08 PM »

Well, it's illegal (get fined and may get demerit points) not to have one but you could always get a cheap car seat. We got the 4-in-1 Graco Convertible (around $500 CAD) from Infant to Toddler. They last for 10 years and then you'd have to get a new one. Also you have the booster seats (which apparently is up to 9-years-old).

It's weird since i think there are exemptions for when you're in a taxi or bus.

And I think you have to replace a car seat if you've been a crash. It kind of does seem like a cash grab especially if you have lots of kids.

HeavyHanded · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2023, 03:45:39 PM »

I’d be interested to see some crash recreations with and without a car seat. They seem like they are a good idea, like a helmet on a motorcycle. I can across this the other day, they are very expensive but not as expensive as a big van.
https://www.multimac.com/range

AMDGJMJ · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2023, 03:59:36 PM »

Quote from: Thed0ctor on August 15, 2023, 01:20:00 PM

So I'm curious what everyone's thoughts are on car seats for kids. Is this something that's actually helpful or just a cash grab? Sometimes I wonder like with other "conventional" things

I think that there is some safety help from car seats but I think that there is also some money making scheming involved as well.

Car seats used to only be necessary until 4 years and now a child has to be at least in a booster until 8 years old. That seems a bit much especially as I have seen some 7 year olds who were nearly 5 ft and 100 lbs!

Thankfully, we have had hand-me-down car seats for most of our children. So, the price isn't too bad. Our boys also grow fast. So our 4 year old and 2 1/2 year old are already in booster seats. 😅

Nadir · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2023, 04:25:28 PM »

It is a rort. It is more than a money making. It was one of the earlier steps to control of the people.

I remember as a child sitting with all my brothers in the dickie seat of my uncle's car. Then standing on the back of another uncle's truck with my brothers and cousins, yelling "put a penny in it" at any vehicle coming in the opposite direction. Great fun. Nobody came to any grief. To be continued.....

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #5 on:** August 15, 2023, 08:52:09 PM »

Quote from: Nadir on August 15, 2023, 04:25:28 PM

Quote from: Nadir 8/16/2023, 5:25:28 AM
It is a rort. It is more than a money making. It was one of the earlier steps to control of the people.

I remember as a child sitting with all my brothers in the dickie seat of my uncle's car. Then standing on the back of another uncle's truck with my brothers and cousins, yelling "put a penny in it" at any vehicle coming in the opposite direction. Great fun. Nobody came to any grief. To be continued.....

Yeah it's feels like a scam to make us buy all these different kinds of seats and also make children submissive. This is the law in Western Australia.

Quote

Quote Drivers are legally responsible for ensuring that children are suitably restrained in a vehicle:
Aged 0 to 6 months are restrained in a rear-facing child restraint (e.g. infant capsule).
Aged 6 months to under 4 years are restrained in either a rear or forward-facing child restraint with in-built harness.
Aged 4 years to under 7 years seated in either a forward-facing child seat or booster seat restrained by a fastened seatbelt or child safety harness.
Aged 7 years to 16 years are either in a suitable child seat or a seatbelt.
Aged under 7 years must not be in the front row of seats if the vehicle has two or more rows of seats.
Aged between 4 years and 7 years can travel in the front seat if all other rear seats are filled with passengers aged under 7.
When riding in a bus or taxi, if there is no suitable approved child seat available, children under the age of seven years must not be in the front row of seats where the bus or taxi has two or more rows of seats.
Children seven years and over can be restrained in an adult seatbelt or booster seats.
If a child is not wearing a seatbelt or a suitable child restraint as required by the law, then the driver risks being fined and incurring demerit points. You must not drive your vehicle with unrestrained children in it if there are positions with seatbelts available.
Before you buy or install a child restraint, make sure it complies with Australian Standards.
For more information about fitting child restraints and the Road Safety Council's network of Child Car Restraint Fitters in Western Australia, read our Child Restraint information bulletin.

This is ridiculous that they want them in the seats until 7......

Nadir · « **Reply #6 on:** August 15, 2023, 09:58:16 PM »

Continuing from

Quote from: Nadir on August 15, 2023, 04:25:28 PM

It is a rort. It is more than a money making. It was one of the earlier steps to control of the people.

I remember as a child sitting with all my brothers in the dickie seat of my uncle's car. Then standing on the back of another uncle's truck with my brothers and cousins, yelling "put a penny in it" at any vehicle coming in the opposite direction. Great fun. Nobody came to any grief. To be continued.....

When we had our three children in the eighties, each of them travelled by car in a wicker basket on the back seat. The basket itself was not secured and there was of course no way to secure a baby in a wicker basket. I never even thought of such a thing. We only acquired one child car seat for our own convenience, and that one seat served each child in his/her turn.

Our family, back in the fifties our family lived half way up a high steep hill. We would drag our billycarts to the top and come racing to the bottom, of course no brakes, no helmets, no injuries.

As for bike helmets they were unheard of, except for professional competition racing, or for motorbike riders.

They too are a means of control. Do we really believe that the corporation, aka “government” really cares for our health and that of our progeny? I see toddlers riding bikes wth training wheels wearing helmets - ridiculous. The same kids will have had their shots of course, which also keep them safe.

Bit by bit, the screws tighten.

Bonaventure · « **Reply #7 on:** August 15, 2023, 10:49:09 PM »

Abstract: We show that laws mandating use of child car safety seats significantly reduce birth rates, as many cars cannot fit three child seats in the back seat. Women with two children younger than their state’s age mandate have a lower annual birth probability of 0.73 percentage points [a relative drop of 7.8%]. This effect is limited to third child births, households with access to a car, and households with a male present, where both front seats are likely to be occupied.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/c4daDbQD398BmW5k5/on-car-seats-as-contraception

Bonaventure · « **Reply #8 on:** August 15, 2023, 10:51:38 PM »

Abstract
Since 1977, U.S. states have passed laws steadily raising the age for which a child must ride in a car safety seat. These laws significantly raise the cost of having a third child, as many regular-sized cars cannot fit three child seats in the back. Using census data and state-year variation in laws, we estimate that when women have two children of ages requiring mandated car seats, they have a lower annual probability of giving birth by 0.73 percentage points. Consistent with a causal channel, this effect is limited to third child births, is concentrated in households with access to a car, and is larger when a male is present (when both front seats are likely to be occupied). We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017. Simultaneously, they led to a permanent reduction of approximately 8,000 births in the same year, and 145,000 fewer births since 1980, with 90% of this decline being since 2000.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046

Nadir · « **Reply #9 on:** August 15, 2023, 11:53:17 PM »

Good finds, Bonaventure. I was thinking that too, but did know what to search for.

See, it’s not just about making money, it’s control, control, control.

Yeti · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2023, 12:03:22 AM »

Quote from: Bonaventure on August 15, 2023, 10:51:38 PM

Abstract
Since 1977, U.S. states have passed laws steadily raising the age for which a child must ride in a car safety seat. These laws significantly raise the cost of having a third child, as many regular-sized cars cannot fit three child seats in the back. Using census data and state-year variation in laws, we estimate that when women have two children of ages requiring mandated car seats, they have a lower annual probability of giving birth by 0.73 percentage points. Consistent with a causal channel, this effect is limited to third child births, is concentrated in households with access to a car, and is larger when a male is present (when both front seats are likely to be occupied). We estimate that these laws prevented only 57 car crash fatalities of children nationwide in 2017. Simultaneously, they led to a permanent reduction of approximately 8,000 births in the same year, and 145,000 fewer births since 1980, with 90% of this decline being since 2000.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3665046

.

Oh wow, this is a very interesting point.

I remember being an infant in the 80s (well, you know what I mean). Kids had to sit in a car seat maybe up until three years old, or probably younger. Now I think kids have to sit in them practically into their teens ...

Of course neither me nor any of my siblings were ever killed in a car crash.

I was stunned a few years ago to see a kid in second grade sitting in a car seat. Some things are ridiculous.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2023, 06:55:07 AM »

Quote from: AMDGJMJ on August 15, 2023, 03:59:36 PM

I think that there is some safety help from car seats but I think that there is also some money making scheming involved as well.

There's no good way to keep an infant or toddler secure / safe inside a car without a car seat, as they simply don't fit with the seatbelts. I've always ignored the nonsense about requiring car seats for older children. As soon as I judge that they're adequately restrained by the regular seat belt system, I dispense with the car seat. I think it's ridiculous for the older children. I think most state laws base it on weight, but it's more about height and how the seatbelt fits them. And of course there's always money involved, even when the concern is legitimate.

dxcat40 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2023, 07:37:06 AM »

Quote from: Yeti on August 16, 2023, 12:03:22 AM

.

Oh wow, this is a very interesting point.

I remember being an infant in the 80s (well, you know what I mean). Kids had to sit in a car seat maybe up until three years old, or probably younger. Now I think kids have to sit in them practically into their teens ...

Of course neither me nor any of my siblings were ever killed in a car crash.

I was stunned a few years ago to see a kid in second grade sitting in a car seat. Some things are ridiculous.

It sounds interesting, but plenty of people either find a way to make it work or just ignore it outright. It is true, though, that the government based its push for car seats on safety studies and not based on any high-profile incident, etc. We should still consider that early cars just weren't very safe, and that a lot of other safety features have been created at about the same time: airbags, crumple zones, anti-lock braking systems (ABS), and electronic stability control (ESC). From the 70s to now, it has been possible for insurance to cover the costs of car seats and to receive a "safe driver discount" for meeting certain criteria, which might include car seats.

Probably any one of us reading this thread has the greatest chance of death in a car, even today. Some older members might be able to better comment on the progression of car safety.

Bonaventure · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2023, 08:19:23 AM »

Quote from: Nadir on August 15, 2023, 11:53:17 PM

Good finds, Bonaventure. I was thinking that too, but did know what to search for.

See, it’s not just about making money, it’s control, control, control.

All of these laws were passed under the guise of the Leftist canard, "If it saves but one child...." All it takes is one or two accidents where a child was killed, input stories of the grieving mother and voilà, you can get just about any absurd law passed. But again, as is shown the studies linked to above, whether good intentioned or not, the net/net result is fewer children being born. And we all know that that actually means more children being contracepted away, most likely through chemical abortifacients (i.e., "the pill").

So a law whose purpose was supposedly to save the lives of children ends up killing more.

Bonaventure · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2023, 08:30:54 AM »

Quote from: Yeti on August 16, 2023, 12:03:22 AM

.

Oh wow, this is a very interesting point.

I remember being an infant in the 80s (well, you know what I mean). Kids had to sit in a car seat maybe up until three years old, or probably younger. Now I think kids have to sit in them practically into their teens ...

Of course neither me nor any of my siblings were ever killed in a car crash.

I recall riding not only in the very back seat, but in the space between the seats in old station wagons, and climbing back and forth, to and fro. Sometimes with the rear window open wherein the exhaust fumes made us nauseous. No car seats. No seat belts. Granted, I would not to have liked to have been in any of those positions in the event we actually got into a car crash, but at the same time, this is how everyone drove back then, and I don't know anyone who died as a result.

And if you think about it... I probably had close to 100,000 miles in a school bus, going to and from school, by the time I graduated high school, and not a single one of those buses even had seatbelts. Why not? AFAIK, it's still like that today. If a car seat is required for passenger cars, why are not school buses required to at least have seat belts? Makes no sense, other than to fuel the (not so crazy) "conspiracy theory" that mandatory car seats are more for population control than they are for child safety.

Quote from: Yeti on August 16, 2023, 12:03:22 AM

I was stunned a few years ago to see a kid in second grade sitting in a car seat. Some things are ridiculous.

It is ridiculous.

Author Topic: Car seats for children (Read 1409 times)

Thed0ctor

Car seats for children

FarmerWife

Re: Car seats for children

HeavyHanded

Re: Car seats for children

AMDGJMJ

Re: Car seats for children

Nadir

Re: Car seats for children

AnthonyPadua

Re: Car seats for children

Nadir

Re: Car seats for children

Bonaventure

Re: Car seats for children

Bonaventure

Re: Car seats for children

Nadir

Re: Car seats for children

Yeti

Re: Car seats for children

Ladislaus

Re: Car seats for children

dxcat40

Re: Car seats for children

Bonaventure

Re: Car seats for children

Bonaventure

Re: Car seats for children