Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: Michaelknoxville on November 21, 2025, 01:27:35 PM
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I’ve really been struggling with this. Someone mentioned the Byzantine rite as an alternative. I’ve never considered it but looking into it, it appears to be a legitimate alternative. I’m relying on your opinions to guide me. From what I read in here you are people I love and respect. God bless all of you! I will remain Roman Catholic where ever I end up regardless. Despite my perceived poor formation I must have retained something from my baptism and or just being born again has shown me the light either way I want to do things right and staying home is not that.
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I voted for the Franklin TLM. Even if you cannot make it weekly, make it whenever you can until God provides you with one closer.
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I’ve really been struggling with this. Someone mentioned the Byzantine rite as an alternative. I’ve never considered it but looking into it, it appears to be a legitimate alternative. I’m relying on your opinions to guide me. From what I read in here you are people I love and respect. God bless all of you! I will remain Roman Catholic where ever I end up regardless. Despite my perceived poor formation I must have retained something from my baptism and or just being born again has shown me the light either way I want to do things right and staying home is not that.
I was confirmed in the Byzantine Rite when I was 6 years old and went to a Byzantine Rite chapel for a couple of years. They are likely valid but some of them can be as bad/worse than the novus ordo.
I highly recommend the Franklin chapel occasionally and watching a Mass when you can not go over the other options. Praying for you. Please keep us posted. :pray:
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According to tradition, you need permission from a bishop to change rites on a case by case situation.
(As an aside you weren't even allowed to make your Easter duty outside your home parish.)
Anyway, trads today seem to think they aren't bound by the pre Vat II rules and regulations. So are they just cherry picking what they agree with? That's not tradition.
The archbishop when he formed the SSPX out of necessity changed nothing.
Is the Byzantine rite in union with Rome?
Do you know the rite well enough that you'd recognize that it's been/being changed/modernized?
Three people I know in three different states/provinces all say it's no better than the Novus Ordo with regard to the irreverence of the people at Mass and of course they've no idea if things have changed from the traditional to the modern...and then there's the language. Just because the priest looks devout while offering Mass...so do a lot of Novus Ordo priests.
Catholicism has a number of valid rites. You belong to one of them.
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Well ... why don't you take the initiative with all the other disaffected folks who were kicked out to START UP YOUR OWN CHAPEL. You get enough people and I'm sure you could get either an SSPX or one of the other groups. of "Resistance" priests not only to go there on the weekends but possibly even to set up a prior. I saw some decent and affordable church properties for sale in the area.
If you have enough people, this is easil convertible to a Traditional Catholic chapel, and while it seems rather pricey, if you get 100 people together, it's not a problem to afford the payments, and it looks like it's in great shape and in little need of repairs.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/438-W-Race-St-Kingston-TN/37866302/
They're asking 1.5 million, but you could likely talk them down, and the mortgage payments would be about 10,000 a month. That's about $100 per month or $25 per week per person if you can get a group of 100 people together, which I'm sure you could do rather easily.
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According to tradition, you need permission from a bishop to change rites on a case by case situation.
(As an aside you weren't even allowed to make your Easter duty outside your home parish.)
Anyway, trads today seem to think they aren't bound by the pre Vat II rules and regulations. So are they just cherry picking what they agree with? That's not tradition.
The archbishop when he formed the SSPX out of necessity changed nothing.
Is the Byzantine rite in union with Rome?
Do you know the rite well enough that you'd recognize that it's been/being changed/modernized?
Three people I know in three different states/provinces all say it's no better than the Novus Ordo with regard to the irreverence of the people at Mass and of course they've no idea if things have changed from the traditional to the modern...and then there's the language. Just because the priest looks devout while offering Mass...so do a lot of Novus Ordo priests.
Catholicism has a number of valid rites. You belong to one of them.
Oh, nonsense.
No, you do not need to change Rites to simply assist at Mass there, even sign up as a parishioner, and even receive the Sacraments. They are more than willing to give the Sacraments (including Baptism, Confirmation, and Matrimony) to those who join their parish even without switching Rites, though they would require the change for you to receive Holy Orders.
Unless it's the Maronite Rite, it's utterly absurd to claim that it's "no better than the Novus Ordo". But even with the Maronites you can find some better chapels. Byzantine / Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian Rites are typically just fine ... even if the Maronite has in places gone off the rails, since they've always been somewhat Romanized (for better, or now, for worse). Are the people who go there liberal/Modernist? Yes, though less so than the Novus Ordites, and ... you don't think that any Latin Rite Catholic Church in the 1940s and 1950s was thoroughly infested with Modernists? They absolutely were.
As for the language, most of them offer at least one English Liturgy, the Ruthenians nearly always use English (with an occasional Old Slavonic for nostalgia purposes). Tridentine Masses are offered in Latin ... which the vast majority do not know.
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Well ... why don't you take the initiative with all the other disaffected folks who were kicked out to START UP YOUR OWN CHAPEL. You get enough people and I'm sure you could get either an SSPX or one of the other groups. of "Resistance" priests not only to go there on the weekends but possibly even to set up a prior. I saw some decent and affordable church properties for sale in the area.
If you have enough people, this is easil convertible to a Traditional Catholic chapel, and while it seems rather pricey, if you get 100 people together, it's not a problem to afford the payments, and it looks like it's in great shape and in little need of repairs.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/438-W-Race-St-Kingston-TN/37866302/
They're asking 1.5 million, but you could likely talk them down, and the mortgage payments would be about 10,000 a month. That's about $100 per month or $25 per week per person if you can get a group of 100 people together, which I'm sure you could do rather easily.
As Protestant meeting halls go, that is a very nice facility. That price is probably entirely negotiable, church buildings by their very nature are not as in demand as are single family homes.
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As Protestant meeting halls go, that is a very nice facility. That price is probably entirely negotiable, church buildings by their very nature are not as in demand as are single family homes.
Yes, that one might be workable. Agreed that you could probably talk them down, possibly even do a lease-to-own scenario. Looks like it's well maintained and not in need of repair, and you could easily see turning that main "santuary" area into a very Catholic-looking chapel for the Tridentine Mass.
Let's say 200 familes in the area are looking for a church building for a Tridentine Mass. Given a mortgage of about $10,000 per month, that's $50 per familiy per month, about $15 per week, though of course there would be other expenses.
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According to tradition, you need permission from a bishop to change rites on a case by case situation.
(As an aside you weren't even allowed to make your Easter duty outside your home parish.)
Anyway, trads today seem to think they aren't bound by the pre Vat II rules and regulations. So are they just cherry picking what they agree with? That's not tradition.
The archbishop when he formed the SSPX out of necessity changed nothing.
Is the Byzantine rite in union with Rome?
Do you know the rite well enough that you'd recognize that it's been/being changed/modernized?
Three people I know in three different states/provinces all say it's no better than the Novus Ordo with regard to the irreverence of the people at Mass and of course they've no idea if things have changed from the traditional to the modern...and then there's the language. Just because the priest looks devout while offering Mass...so do a lot of Novus Ordo priests.
Catholicism has a number of valid rites. You belong to one of them.
I wish I could thumb up you guys advice it won’t let me…… but basically yes we have become Protestants in that sense shopping for churches. I’m offended by people I’ve never met. I was so eager for tradition and went through hell to get here. Both physically and spiritually. Just to be kicked in the teeth by the smiling bishop. I’m basing my judgements off articles I’ve read about people I’ve never met. To say the struggle isn’t real id be lying to you. I’m broken hearted over this. So how do I get myself to calm down and sit with these shepherds as a sheep left to the wolves is my issue. 😵💫 i have no detachment from it. I can’t get over it. I suppose collecting myself shutting my mouth and just jumping in is the best I can do. I mean that sincerely. I’m having trouble collecting myself enough to not
be furious at them. But I guess it’s what I have to do.
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Oh, nonsense.
No, you do not need to change Rites to simply assist at Mass there, even sign up as a parishioner, and even receive the Sacraments. They are more than willing to give the Sacraments (including Baptism, Confirmation, and Matrimony) to those who join their parish even without switching Rites, though they would require the change for you to receive Holy Orders.
Unless it's the Maronite Rite, it's utterly absurd to claim that it's "no better than the Novus Ordo". But even with the Maronites you can find some better chapels. Byzantine / Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian Rites are typically just fine ... even if the Maronite has in places gone off the rails, since they've always been somewhat Romanized (for better, or now, for worse). Are the people who go there liberal/Modernist? Yes, though less so than the Novus Ordites, and ... you don't think that any Latin Rite Catholic Church in the 1940s and 1950s was thoroughly infested with Modernists? They absolutely were.
As for the language, most of them offer at least one English Liturgy, the Ruthenians nearly always use English (with an occasional Old Slavonic for nostalgia purposes). Tridentine Masses are offered in Latin ... which the vast majority do not know.
This is what I’ve heard. I think I will try Holy Ghost first and just see it, if doesn’t work out and they are as against the tradition as I assume I have a fall back only a couple miles away. It’s nice to have options. I wish I didn’t even have to consider it. But it’s nice to have options. I need accountability. I don’t need halfway. I just want to be around people who get it and love God.
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https://www.complicitclergy.com/2025/10/13/leos-knoxville-bishop-kills-the-latin-mass/
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Oh, nonsense.
No, you do not need to change Rites to simply assist at Mass there, even sign up as a parishioner, and even receive the Sacraments. They are more than willing to give the Sacraments (including Baptism, Confirmation, and Matrimony) to those who join their parish even without switching Rites, though they would require the change for you to receive Holy Orders.
Unless it's the Maronite Rite, it's utterly absurd to claim that it's "no better than the Novus Ordo". But even with the Maronites you can find some better chapels. Byzantine / Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian Rites are typically just fine ... even if the Maronite has in places gone off the rails, since they've always been somewhat Romanized (for better, or now, for worse). Are the people who go there liberal/Modernist? Yes, though less so than the Novus Ordites, and ... you don't think that any Latin Rite Catholic Church in the 1940s and 1950s was thoroughly infested with Modernists? They absolutely were.
As for the language, most of them offer at least one English Liturgy, the Ruthenians nearly always use English (with an occasional Old Slavonic for nostalgia purposes). Tridentine Masses are offered in Latin ... which the vast majority do not know.
How would matrimony work? If it were two Latin Rite Catholics marrying in an Eastern Rite parish (is that even possible?), would there be the crowning, and the concept that the priest confers the sacrament, rather than the spouses conferring it upon each other?
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https://www.complicitclergy.com/2025/10/13/leos-knoxville-bishop-kills-the-latin-mass/
If you are ever over in Nashville you could stop in at the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church (Assumption Church Nashville - Latin Mass Community (https://www.assumptionnashville.org/) ) where Candace Owens who lives in Nashville attends Mass.
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If you are ever over in Nashville you could stop in at the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary Church (Assumption Church Nashville - Latin Mass Community (https://www.assumptionnashville.org/) ) where Candace Owens who lives in Nashville attends Mass.
That would be awesome Matt! I would love to meet Candace.
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Oh, nonsense.
No, you do not need to change Rites to simply assist at Mass there, even sign up as a parishioner, and even receive the Sacraments. They are more than willing to give the Sacraments (including Baptism, Confirmation, and Matrimony) to those who join their parish even without switching Rites, though they would require the change for you to receive Holy Orders.
Unless it's the Maronite Rite, it's utterly absurd to claim that it's "no better than the Novus Ordo". But even with the Maronites you can find some better chapels. Byzantine / Ruthenian, Melkite, and Ukrainian Rites are typically just fine ... even if the Maronite has in places gone off the rails, since they've always been somewhat Romanized (for better, or now, for worse). Are the people who go there liberal/Modernist? Yes, though less so than the Novus Ordites, and ... you don't think that any Latin Rite Catholic Church in the 1940s and 1950s was thoroughly infested with Modernists? They absolutely were.
As for the language, most of them offer at least one English Liturgy, the Ruthenians nearly always use English (with an occasional Old Slavonic for nostalgia purposes). Tridentine Masses are offered in Latin ... which the vast majority do not know.
First of all I hit the thumbs up instead of the quote, it definitely was a mistake.
Secondly, of the three parishes I spoke with, thousands of miles apart, my claim that they are "no better than the NO" is right on.
In ALL THREE the majority of the women wear pants and jeans to church.
In ALL THREE the women do NOT cover their head.
In ALL THREE they now stand for the Consecration. (they previously knelt)
In ALL THREE they were instructed during covid to receive under only one kind IN THE HAND. and in the third diocese the bishop wanted that to continue to be the norm. I didn't ask the other two.
In the Nicene Creed which reads "the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father and the Son" in the old church prayer books, "the Son" has been stroked out and in the new prayer books the Son is in brackets. (Does that mean it's optional to mention Him?)
In one church Holy water is not available and the Asperges is only done on Palm Sunday. The other churches have Holy Water.
None of the churches have an absolution much less two but maybe that's just their rite.
People at two of the sites stated that their bishops were definitely trying to copy the changes of Vat II to bring their churches up to modern times in line with Rome as they are in communion with Rome. The third person is new to tradition so doesn't always recognize modernization entering the traditional.
All three did state that much depends on the priest but if the priest's wife is wearing pants it doesn't really matter what he says does it.
My advice to Michaelknoxville would be to park outside the church before a Mass and observe the parishoners going in and you might get some idea of how traditional the parish is. Their dress alone will tell you how much influence the priest has on his flock and how much they actually practice their faith.
Coming from the Novus Ordo to Tradition is a big change so side tracking to the Byzantine would probably add even more uncertainty.
Despite my perceived poor formation I must have retained something from my baptism and or just being born again has shown me the light either way I want to do things right and staying home is not that.
I'm not sure I understand what you meant by "being born again". That phrase usually sends up red flags.
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I'm not sure I understand what you meant by "being born again". That phrase usually sends up red flags.
Nichodemus!!! You are a teacher of the laws but you do not understand these things? Haha born again is when you spend 30 years as a modernist heretic and through prayer, fasting and countless hours of research you realize your errors and hit your rock bottom you repent and turn from your sick life of filth. Fair enough!?
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I wish I could thumb up you guys advice it won’t let me…… but basically yes we have become Protestants in that sense shopping for churches. I’m offended by people I’ve never met. I was so eager for tradition and went through hell to get here. Both physically and spiritually. Just to be kicked in the teeth by the smiling bishop. I’m basing my judgements off articles I’ve read about people I’ve never met. To say the struggle isn’t real id be lying to you. I’m broken hearted over this. So how do I get myself to calm down and sit with these shepherds as a sheep left to the wolves is my issue. 😵💫 i have no detachment from it. I can’t get over it. I suppose collecting myself shutting my mouth and just jumping in is the best I can do. I mean that sincerely. I’m having trouble collecting myself enough to not
be furious at them. But I guess it’s what I have to do.
Remaining peaceful at all times is of highest importance. Agitation is from the devil and leads to sin. Be at peace always even during your own personal failures and have confidence in God.
I would drive up to 3-4hrs away as much as possible or move rather than attend an Eastern rite, mainly because I don't know much about them, but if they are schismatic, I want nothing to do with them. I'd stay away from the diocesan indult TLM as well.
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I’ve really been struggling with this. Someone mentioned the Byzantine rite as an alternative. I’ve never considered it but looking into it, it appears to be a legitimate alternative. I’m relying on your opinions to guide me. From what I read in here you are people I love and respect. God bless all of you! I will remain Roman Catholic where ever I end up regardless. Despite my perceived poor formation I must have retained something from my baptism and or just being born again has shown me the light either way I want to do things right and staying home is not that.
Contact a Resistance Priest.
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Just not any associated with Boston, KY and Bishop Pfieffer.
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Just not any associated with Boston, KY and Bishop Pfieffer.
THE TWILIGHT ZONE THEME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk)
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THE TWILIGHT ZONE THEME (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVSRm80WzZk)
Haha yes I’m in the twilight zone! Boston didn’t can their Latin mass. They are expanding. Especially In towns like Lawrence. As it gets worse on the streets it gets more packed in the pews. I suppose I’ve made worse decisions. But that’s not good standard.
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As a Roman rite Catholic it would be worth the cross to travel 2hrs each way every Sunday for the true mass. If you can't do that you can fall back on the Byzantine Divine Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy ia fully Catholic and much closer to the true Mass than even the most "reverent Novus Ordo"