Happenby,
Thanks for not answering my questions and for interjecting the false assertion that I think the NO is intrinsically evil. I've never said it was; only said that it was extremely doubtful, which doubt you continue to say doesn't matter because "the Church said it's ok".
The people during the Arian heresy were not obliged by the Pope or anyone to become Arian. They chose to do it.
The people during the [V2] heresy were not obliged by the Pope or anyone to become [modernists]. They chose to do it.
You're saying that Pope Paul VI deceived 95% of the Church, placed them under obligation as the authority, put the NO in most every church and that isn't a an epic fail?
You missed the point of my entirely too long (and not very good) olive tree analogy. There are 3 separate olive trees:1. The true, organic, pure olive tree - which had been planted in every diocese for centuries and which was thriving and beautiful.2. The new, hybrid olive tree which the pope had in his personal garden and which he wanted to spread to all dioceses. This tree was meant to be "improved" over the organic tree. More capable of withstanding disease, more fruitful, more "for the people". The pope approved this tree, in theory, BUT THIS TREE WAS NEVER PLANTED IN THE DIOCESES. It was only ever planted in the vatican garden, and NEVER LEFT THE VATICAN. 3. The 3rd tree is the GMO modified one, which was sickly, prone to disease, non-fruit bearing, and needed constant "tweaking" to keep it alive. There were always excuses by the Bishops and priests as to why this or that had to be changed. The soil had to be updated, the tree would be planted on the south side, then re-planted on the east side. One day it would be in a greenhouse; the next day it would be in the open air. Never in the same plot of land, never bearing the same amount of fruit. This 3rd tree is the one that freemasonic bishops and priests gave to THE ENTIRE LATIN CHURCH. It is NOT the one approved by the pope. It was not the 2nd hybrid tree approved by the Church. If the NO is wrong and sinful, the Church by virtue of the Pope made an epic fail. Or, the Church was guided to let down the walls and the bishops and priests went nuts.
There is a BIG difference between the 2nd hybrid tree, which was approved by the Church and the 3rd, GMO crap version used in each diocese. The true NO mass would've been the latin mass said in the vernacular, with a few other non-essential rubric changes. This is all that was truly authorized by the pope. (So if you a person goes to a NO with all the "abuses", they are committing a sin by going to an unauthorized mass!) Instead, what showed up in the diocese was a full-blown protestant service, which was never authorized. ...The bishops are not the church, nor do they have authority to change the liturgy, so the NO, as it is said in 95% of the world, DID NOT COME FROM ROME.The Pope remains guilty for changing the liturgy because Pius V said anyone who did would answer to Peter and Paul. I suspect he's done that. But from my pew, it seems that he could only change it as far as it was technically possible before it was totally useless and couldn't confect the Sacrament.
If the pope sinned in changing the liturgy, by violating Quo Primum, if he called down upon himself the wrath of Sts Peter and Paul, then how can we be sure that the Church was "guided" (I assume you mean "guided by the Holy Spirit", as the modernists love to say) in its presenting of the NO to the laity? Does the Holy Ghost "guide" us when we sin? How can a catholic presume he has God's blessing when he is violating Church law? Doesn't our cathechism teach the exact opposite? Doesn't our Faith teach us that we lose God's grace when we sin? How can the pope be guided by the Holy Ghost when he's rejecting the Holy Ghost at the same time, through sin, by violating Quo Primum and his predecessor St Pius V?How can a liturgy which violates Church law be good? How can a liturgy which does the opposite of another liturgy be correct? Either liturgy A is correct, or liturgy B is correct - but both can't be correct, right? Not saying it was good. Pius V warned for a reason. But, I can't say it is intrinsically evil because it came from the authority of the Church.
So you're saying the NO is not good, and you admit that it violates Church law, but since it's not "intrinsically evil" therefore it's ok? Secondly, you're saying it's not good because it violated Pius V's law, but at the same time, it was approved as law?
Do you know how many sins are wrong, that are not intrinsically evil? Many. So the fact that the NO is not intrinsically evil is irrelevant.
But from my pew, it seems that he could only change it as far as it was technically possible before it was totally useless and couldn't confect the Sacrament.
I agree that the "theoretical" NO which Paul VI made was "technically" ok, but as Card Ottaviani pointed out, it could very well NOT be ok, due to a whole list of problems and land mines. But the mass that Card Ottaviani studied was NOT the one that was given to the laity by the freemasonic/communistic Bishops and priests. The one rolled out on the red carpet to the people was a corruption of a corruption. Paul VI's "pure" NO was a corruption of the True Mass and the protestant version (which most see) is a corruption of that. Just like the 3rd sickly, GMO tree was a corruption of an already corrupted hybrid tree.