.

I heard about a protestant religious community in Malibu that
needed a choir conductor, so they put out the word, and a
local man who had a lot of experience with so-called Rock
'music' applied for the job.  The so-called pastor was impressed
by his experience, which included dozens of paid performances
at venues that were not small by most standards.  

There was only one rehearsal, though, and the choir, as if in
one voice, came to the so-called pastor to beg his mercy and
to relieve them of this man for their director.  

Why were they so moved?  

From the start, the new director began each piece in the
following manner:  

"Ah-ONE ......... TWO ........ ah-One, Two, Three, Four..."



Seriously.  :guitar:

Neil, I think you'd get a good laugh out of this. :)

Shows how empty minded the people writing the music think we are.

Is there a difference between rock n roll and 'rock' music?  What are they?  I'm not trying to be difficult.  But a categorical boycott of a genre implies that the genre itself is evil, which is a case I've never seen made.  You can say 'boycott pornography films' because the genre itself is necessarily evil, and there are tangible and identifiable attributes that are objectively evil, and necessarily part of the genre.

But to boycott 'rock' music (I am assuming this is the same thing as rock n roll) is a difficult claim to make because rock music itself is divided into a million and a half sub genres.  I don't know if there's really any 'just plain' rock music out there anymore, but I don't listen to the radio so I can't say.  

As far as the liberalism, that's dependent on the lyrics.  Music without lyrics can't really be liberal.  I think, that with very rare exception, popular music (read: as a general rule, music that is on the radio and makes money) is liberal because it's based on some sort of inordinate self esteem or obsession with another thing or person.  The same can be said for almost all hip hop music, which is not rock music at all, but as far as a percentage of songs in the genre, is probably the worst offender in this regard, and it isn't part of the rock genre at all.  So I wonder if you mean to say popular music, instead of rock music.  I could agree with you on that, very easily.

So what are the musical qualities that define rock?  Is it guitars, bass and percussion?  There's a lot of instrumental music out there that I've not only found to be naturally good, well arranged and thoughtful, but, as odd as it sounds, very Catholic.
.  I'll give you a few examples:

, by Godspeed You! Black Emperor (hyper link included in case youtube embed below doesn't work)

This group writes in movements, and their songs are usually between ten and thirty minutes long (usually only two to four songs on an album) and it's the first six or so minutes of this song that I am positing.

This particular movement (first 6:15 of song) is titled 'lift yr. skinny fists like antennas to Heaven'  

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed?v=61LZKhBgDso[/youtube]

Anyways, this song reminds me of martyrdom and receiving a crown of glory, of Christ gathering the Elect into Heaven, of the Ascension or the Resurrection.  I'm not a musician so I'll sound like an idiot talking about this, maybe someone who is a musician can help me out.  First two minutes, just guitar with the occasional horn and then the oncoming violin.  It's a slow and steady climb, not particularly defined but not formless-- imagine a martyr bloodied and bruised, taking his last breaths, or Christ when He first awoke in the tomb and began to sit up out of the sepulcher, preparing to walk out into the world after three days in the tomb, or Christ's kind, instructive parting to the apostles right before his Ascension.  Then from the two to three minute mark, it climbs higher, violin becomes fuller (maybe one is added) and closer to the three minute mark you can hear horns over the violin.  Imagine the martyr at his very last moment, where he is no longer approaching death, but beginning to approach life.  Or Christ walking from the tomb to the stone of the sepulcher, ready to roll it back and announce redemption to the world.  Or during the Ascension, the very last words spoken, and Christ's feet begin to lift off the ground so subtly, as he bids his apostles farewell.  Then at the three minute and ten second mark, enter triumphant march with cymbals, guitar, pretty sure the violins still there.  This is the martyr being drawn towards the Bosom of Our Lord and Lady, to receive his crown.  This is Christ emerging from the tomb, radiant and blinding.  In the Ascension, it is standing on the ground, watching the Savior ascend into Heaven, as legions of angels surround his cloud.  Then at 4:30 the horns enter in above everything else, and we're still climbing until the end.  From here until the end of the movement is the final ascent, ending in the crown of glory for the martyr or the Elect, and Christ taken His place at the right hand of the Father.

This all happens in, as far as I can tell, a rock song.  Maybe I'm delusional and everyone else will hear something different, but when I hear this music it reminds me of sainthood.  

That is one of the only songs that I've systematically sat down with to pin point exactly what is happening at each point, but I have a list of quite a few more songs (all non-lyrical) that, at the very least, are naturally good, well arranged, thoughtful, and not provoking towards anger or vice-- perhaps not reminding me of a specific revealed truth, but nevertheless a boon rather than a bane.  Here are some more examples:








^ This entire album played succesively reminds me of a valiant death, followed by purgatorial fire and Heaven.  I have yet to formulate my thoughts on exactly how and why, but it is directed towards the album as a whole, which really plays as if it were one song.

(not rock, but I think electronic falls under the 'rock' category, doesn't it?)







I don't listen to music with Lyrics except for liturgical music usually, but here's one song I'll link to that has lyrics.  Very powerful social commentary, also some very Catholic themes (They put angels in the electric chair, and no one knew or no one cared, but burning stars lit up their hair and crawled to Heaven on Golden stairs)




So the 'too long, don't read' version of this is that I think you mean popular music.  Once you turn off the radio, there's plenty of good and edifying music out there.  

As far as the liberalism, that's dependent on the lyrics.  Music without lyrics can't really be liberal.

Maybe it stretches the term somewhat, but insofar as liberalism connotes an existential rejection of the logos and embrace of thumotic and erotic chaos, rather than simply an academic-style ideology, I think that instrumental music crafted to help effect such an irruption of false ecstasy can be called liberal. Likewise I think that insofar as the harmonic structure is imprecise (distortion, vocals and instruments out of tune or even 'wailing', background noise, excessive modulation, etc.) and brings about a state of nervous confusion in the listener, some music can by analogy be called modernist.

Regarding the song you posted (‘Storm’). The first three minutes are a simple prelude establishing the harmonic and rhythmic structure of the song, which although simple, is not unmusical. I notice a waltz rhythm, and perhaps Neil can identify the actual intervals used. However, we should take note of the reverb and background noise which serve to obfuscate the structure through a certain discord. This creates a neurotic tension in the listener. Rather than being relieved, this tension is aggravated at the 3 minute mark with the noisy intrusion of the drum and the guitar. There is a temporary resolution between 3:45 and 4:00 as the piano recites a descending major arpeggio, following by a renewed and more vigorous aggravation at 4:21 caused by some kind of dreadful guitar noise. Soon after that point I began to feel angry and tense, so I turned it off.

From what I could tell, this song has the basic theatrical order you described, and this structure combined with the intervals used give it a vaguely ‘inspirational’ significance, in the debased sense of that word. Beyond that I think it is a wishful projection to associate it with the Resurrection and Ascension, and frankly I find it impossible to associate any sounds so grating as that with the transcendent Peace of Christ. Ultimately, I think it is most fruitful to pay attention to how this song and others affect the different parts of your soul, especially according to the Platonic psychology which was Christianized by the Fathers. Abstract classifications ("rock music") and genre-wide boycotts can be useful, but this interior concentration, guided by the teachings of the Saints on the spiritual combat, is really the surest guide to determining which music is good for us, and which isn’t. To do this, of course, you have to be able to identify erotic, thumotic, and noetic movements within yourself. If you are able actively to situate your listening on a noetic level, rather than passively being pulled around by the music, I think you’ll notice how abrasive this piece is.

Quote from: Mith

As far as the liberalism, that's dependent on the lyrics.  Music without lyrics can't really be liberal.

Maybe it stretches the term somewhat, but insofar as liberalism connotes an existential rejection of the logos and embrace of thumotic and erotic chaos, rather than simply an academic-style ideology, I think that instrumental music crafted to help effect such an irruption of false ecstasy can be called liberal. Likewise I think that insofar as the harmonic structure is imprecise (distortion, vocals and instruments out of tune or even 'wailing', background noise, excessive modulation, etc.) and brings about a state of nervous confusion in the listener, some music can by analogy be called modernist.

Regarding the song you posted (‘Storm’). The first three minutes are a simple prelude establishing the harmonic and rhythmic structure of the song, which although simple, is not unmusical. I notice a waltz rhythm, and perhaps Neil can identify the actual intervals used. However, we should take note of the reverb and background noise which serve to obfuscate the structure through a certain discord. This creates a neurotic tension in the listener. Rather than being relieved, this tension is aggravated at the 3 minute mark with the noisy intrusion of the drum and the guitar. There is a temporary resolution between 3:45 and 4:00 as the piano recites a descending major arpeggio, following by a renewed and more vigorous aggravation at 4:21 caused by some kind of dreadful guitar noise. Soon after that point I began to feel angry and tense, so I turned it off.

From what I could tell, this song has the basic theatrical order you described, and this structure combined with the intervals used give it a vaguely ‘inspirational’ significance, in the debased sense of that word. Beyond that I think it is a wishful projection to associate it with the Resurrection and Ascension, and frankly I find it impossible to associate any sounds so grating as that with the transcendent Peace of Christ. Ultimately, I think it is most fruitful to pay attention to how this song and others affect the different parts of your soul, especially according to the Platonic psychology which was Christianized by the Fathers. Abstract classifications ("rock music") and genre-wide boycotts can be useful, but this interior concentration, guided by the teachings of the Saints on the spiritual combat, is really the surest guide to determining which music is good for us, and which isn’t. To do this, of course, you have to be able to identify erotic, thumotic, and noetic movements within yourself. If you are able actively to situate your listening on a noetic level, rather than passively being pulled around by the music, I think you’ll notice how abrasive this piece is.

Wow, Graham, thanks!  I'll be thinking about this for a while.  

...a categorical boycott of a genre implies that the genre itself is evil, which is a case I've never seen made.  You can say 'boycott pornography films' because the genre itself is necessarily evil, and there are tangible and identifiable attributes that are objectively evil, and necessarily part of the genre.

But to boycott 'rock' music (I am assuming this is the same thing as rock n roll) is a difficult claim to make because rock music itself is divided into a million and a half sub genres...

Can't see how the number of subgenres is relevant. Re pornography, there is "straight" pornography, "gαy" pornography, "kiddie porn," and different kinds of pornography featuring a whole host of other categories of vile perversions and whatnot, most of which I've never even heard of, thankfully, but which no doubt nevertheless exist and would constitute "subgenres."

All forms of modern "music" like, rap, heavy metal, 60s, 50s, jazz, rock, pop,, r´nb, blues, house and the lot of it, is not music in it purest sense, it is merely rhythm coming from the untamed impulses and desire of sin within man. Even though it might sound like a cliché, pure music is only the European classical music with real instrument which need a genuine intellect and deep concentration to master. Sacred christian chants and hymns are also Bona Fide music because it brings out the best within man and speak directly to the human heart.

But something I find important is that all form of modern rhythm that I mentioned above is all non-white. The origin is all African from the beginning. It is all a form of manifestation and subtly and desperate longing for casual sex and total lacking of impulse control and restatement. And we all know who finance it...

For the tradcat. Only classical music, Gregorian and vocal sacred choir music. Only. That's catholic all others is pure sinful and evil. The only purpose modern rhythm has is to bring out the worst in man. The sound of the anti-Christ.