Author Topic: Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea  (Read 982 times)

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Offline ggreg

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Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
« on: August 21, 2013, 10:43:03 AM »
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  • It's probably fair to say there is a widely held consensus on here that it would do no harm for Trad couples to get married a few years earlier than they current do.

    What is disputed and debated is how much financial security is prudent to have and how difficult it is to obtain a measure of security in one's twenties.

    I read that Bishop Williamson once proposed/floated the idea of a fund that would help Trad Couples get started.  I cannot find a link to his comments themselves so if you can reference it please do that below.

    What, in the reader's opinion, is required and how would the funding model work?  Grants, interest free loans, interest baring loans?  How would it raise funds and from which demographic?  Parents, grandparents leaving money in their wills?

    Would it be productive or prudent to adapt the terms of the loan to reward certain behaviours/outcomes?  For example, and this is a throwaway example, if a couple had 3 children within five years of marriage 33% of the principal of the loan would be written off.  Not enough money to produce babies faster as a result but enough to be a pleasant surprise and reduce the cost of three children.

    What would the incentive be for people to pay back the money lent to them?  How would you handle non-payment, default, situations

    This is a thought exercise.  I realise that practically speaking with all the rivalries it would be nigh on impossible to implement but assuming you were trying to solve the problem and produce a sustainable model, how would you envisage it functioning.  When families lend, peer pressure and family bonds normally mean delinquency and default rates are very low.

    If you are in such a situation yourself, what do you think would be the best way of helping you that meant the funds were there to help a generation 5 to 10 years below you.

    Apart from the Amish do any religious groups operate this sort of funding, lending in order to perpetuate themselves?

    Is this idea of Williamson's silly?  Would Trads be better off just encouraging nepotism and introducing other trads into their corporations/employers to boost incomes and employment levels?

    Offline jmid

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #1 on: August 24, 2013, 12:00:11 PM »
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  • Greg

    In the area I grew up in, for the wedding people give a gift of money. At the reception the bride and groom walk to each table with a white fancy bag and thanks each person for coming and then each guest gives her an envelope with a cash gift. This is where they get there starter money for a house etc. A good friend of mine received over 15k with this , I received 8k  we both used that cash as down payments on our first home.


    Offline Frances

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #2 on: August 24, 2013, 12:43:57 PM »
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  •  :surprised:Pay to produce children?  And if God doesn't give any, or doesn't meet the quota, the couple gets punished?  That is not charity!  
    A gift is exactly that, a gift--no strings attached.  The next best might be interest-free or low interest loans. There are numerous ways to support young couples.  A chapel fund that gives one-time gifts or loans, material gifts or low-cost rentals, vehicles, food, possibilities are endless.  The reason it rarely happens is self-centeredness and pride.  How often do young people hear, "We survived the Depression by eating homegrown potatoes every night.  And we raised 17 kids.  No reason why you can't do the same."
    But there ARE reasons; good reasons.  Conditions are very different than during the Depression.  You raised enough potatoes to feed 19 or more for years?  Then you owned or had access to land.  You did not grow them in plastic margerine tubs on the window sill of your apartment.  When someone got sick, the country doctor accepted pay in potatoes.  Your children went to Catholic schools taught by religious who did not require a union and a salary package with benefits.  If they had to attend public school, it never crossed your mind that they'd study "human sexuality" in second grade.  Life was much simpler.  If your son needed his driver's licence, he walked in to the town hall, was greeted and tested by people known to him, and if he passed, he got a handshake and his licence.  Today, he needs to go on line in advance, pay lots of money, keep track of his practice hours, get two adult signatures, prove he isn't a felon or sex-offender...Everything is much more time-consuming, fraught with red-tape, impersonal to the point of dehumanising, and costs money.  
    Case in point.  The job my father got with a high school diploma and four years in the Navy enabled him to work his way up through a doctorate in particle physics.  He supported his wife, children and mother-in-law, owned a home, vacation property, three vehicles.  He retired after 45 years with the same company.  Although greatly altered, the company still exists.  What was an entry-level job in 1959 now requires a minimum of a masters degree in engineering and eight years experience.  With high school and military, the only job available is custodian.  He wouldn't work for the company, he'd be an employee of the cleaning firm with which the company contracts.  
    Catholics are in great need of coming out of their traditional shells to give alms and perform acts of corporal charity.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  

    Offline jmid

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #3 on: August 24, 2013, 01:16:36 PM »
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  • Frances

    This is off topic, but I could really relate to your post.

    My Father worked for a Fragrance Company in Jersey out of High School in the mail room. They had an opening in the accounting dept, he moved into that job, today you would need a BS in Accounting , he did it out of HS !! Then his buddy was in the production side mixing chemicals for the fragrances, he moved into a position there, he said today you would need a masters just to apply for the job.
    He would go on business trips with the sales guys as the technical person when they were selling. He was in Chicago once sitting in a bar and the some of the guys he was suppose to meet the next day,  just happened to come in and sit by him, he joked with them all night. The next day when they went into the meeting the sales guy introduces my dad, and they laugh and say " We know Jim" shaking his hand. The sales guy goes back to Jersey and tells his boss , "Wow Jim knows a lot of people" they offer him a sales position. He used to get a car every 2 years , went to France multiple times, became the VP, all without a College degree!! today they never would have given him a chance as a janitor with just High School.

    My Uncle : My Mom got him a job loading trucks out of High School, for a Publishing company, he became the CEO all with no College !! I onced asked him , how he did it?? He said all his secretaries have Degrees , but he doesn't, he said he was blessed to be born when he was, .How times have changed

    Offline ggreg

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #4 on: August 24, 2013, 02:04:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: jmid
    Greg

    In the area I grew up in, for the wedding people give a gift of money. At the reception the bride and groom walk to each table with a white fancy bag and thanks each person for coming and then each guest gives her an envelope with a cash gift. This is where they get there starter money for

    a house etc. A good friend of mine received over 15k with this , I received 8k  we both used that cash as down payments on our first home.


    Works if you have well off friends, but you are still borrowing money from pretty unforgiving banks.  Perhaps there is a better way?


    Offline jmid

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #5 on: August 24, 2013, 03:01:07 PM »
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  • Greg

    That was in a working class neighborhood, of course your talking 200 plus  people at these weddings.

    How about a a system where catholics buy a bond ( no interest) with the money raised a couple buy a home with no interest( they would pay lets say a $500. fee for paperwork etc.)  , the catch is that the Lending Association actually owns the home, if the couple wants to sell they get back what they paid into it plus a certain amount for upkeep, the remainder goes back to the association for helping another couple.

    With no interest the homes would be able to be paid off in 10 to 15 years very affordably.

    Ideas ??

    Offline Graham

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #6 on: August 24, 2013, 03:22:35 PM »
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  • I don't know much about finances, but I do know that one of the first things to do is to look into how comparable funds/charities/organizations operate. Habitat for Humanity comes to mind. Here briefly is what they do:

    Quote

    We make this possible for our partner families by:
    - Building homes using volunteer labour and donated materials
    - Selling these homes to partner families with a required commitment of 500 volunteer hours
    - Offering families an affordable and sustainable no-interest, no down-payment mortgage, with monthly payments set at 25 % of gross income (this includes principal repayment and property tax - at the discretion of the affiliate, homeowner insurance may be collected as well, in which case payments would not exceed 30% of gross household income)


    More info: http://www.habitat.ca/en/how-we-help/building-and-ownership-process

    Offline Tiffany

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #7 on: August 24, 2013, 03:44:59 PM »
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  • Quote from: Graham
    I don't know much about finances, but I do know that one of the first things to do is to look into how comparable funds/charities/organizations operate. Habitat for Humanity comes to mind. Here briefly is what they do:

    Quote

    We make this possible for our partner families by:
    - Building homes using volunteer labour and donated materials
    - Selling these homes to partner families with a required commitment of 500 volunteer hours
    - Offering families an affordable and sustainable no-interest, no down-payment mortgage, with monthly payments set at 25 % of gross income (this includes principal repayment and property tax - at the discretion of the affiliate, homeowner insurance may be collected as well, in which case payments would not exceed 30% of gross household income)


    More info: http://www.habitat.ca/en/how-we-help/building-and-ownership-process


    Good luck on getting qualified unless you are a black never married young mother with six children who have different incarcerated fathers. I do know one white family who received a house though. They do discriminate against whites. Why white people primarily fund it, volunteer to build it, white wealthy churches will furnish them, I have no idea.

    Rural housing loans are probably a more realistic option.


    Offline wallflower

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #8 on: August 24, 2013, 04:58:47 PM »
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  • Low or no interest loans might be very helpful. A lot of people complain of debt but it isn't really the debt that kills them, it's the usury. The usury and excessive charges for every single thing a company can think up really kicks people when they're down.

    At the same time, there's a philosophy that seems smart to me -- Don't loan anything you aren't willing to give. IOW, even with low or no interest loans, you may not get the money back and putting more money into loan recovery is an expensive pursuit (which probably explains the high interest charges). Loaning with mercy is not a game I'd be willing to play, probably because I don't have the money for it, but maybe someone out there is ambitious enough.  

    It goes a bit beyond a "young couples'" fund, but I've often thought that trads need a specialized non-profit to help them out of jams or with education costs or with dowries etc... There are many costs and worries associated specifically with having large families (or any trad family at all) and it would be uplifting if there were somewhere they could go that would be glad to help them and not look down on them with the modern world's philosophies against large/religious families.

    It could have a dollar amount cap and only be accessible once a year or every two years per family. They could get a reference from their parish priests to verify the need. Perhaps it wouldn't hand out cash but services. Gas or Grocery cards for a year. Maid service for 6 months after a difficult birth. A professional organizer for a small house with many children. New appliances. A retreat.

    Sometimes the practical little things make all the difference in the world, physically, mentally and spiritually. Especially since many (most?) trads fall in the range where they don't qualify for substantial aid but can't make ends meet either. There's that spot right above the qualifying line that seems poorer than the poor because that $100 they make above it doesn't make up the difference of what the aid would provide. It seems to me that a lot of people ride that line and really struggle. They usually need just that extra boost to make it all possible. Instead of more comfortable trads donating to secular charities, they could start at home so to speak and donate to a specifically trad non-profit. The more that's done anonymously, the better.  



    Offline Graham

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #9 on: August 24, 2013, 05:25:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Tiffany
    Quote from: Graham
    I don't know much about finances, but I do know that one of the first things to do is to look into how comparable funds/charities/organizations operate. Habitat for Humanity comes to mind. Here briefly is what they do:

    Quote

    We make this possible for our partner families by:
    - Building homes using volunteer labour and donated materials
    - Selling these homes to partner families with a required commitment of 500 volunteer hours
    - Offering families an affordable and sustainable no-interest, no down-payment mortgage, with monthly payments set at 25 % of gross income (this includes principal repayment and property tax - at the discretion of the affiliate, homeowner insurance may be collected as well, in which case payments would not exceed 30% of gross household income)


    More info: http://www.habitat.ca/en/how-we-help/building-and-ownership-process


    Good luck on getting qualified unless you are a black never married young mother with six children who have different incarcerated fathers. I do know one white family who received a house though. They do discriminate against whites. Why white people primarily fund it, volunteer to build it, white wealthy churches will furnish them, I have no idea.

    Rural housing loans are probably a more realistic option.


    I'm sure that's true. I was only suggesting that a traditional Catholic organization with similar goals might look into their methods.

    Offline Frances

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    Bishop Williamsons Young Couples Fund idea
    « Reply #10 on: August 24, 2013, 10:31:12 PM »
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  •  :whistleblower:
    What Tiffany says is sad, but true.  HFH definitely discriminates by race and marital status.  Favors non-white, unmarried.  Also sad is that I cannot think of a single Catholic charity that is similar.  
     St. Francis Xavier threw a Crucifix into the sea, at once calming the waves.  Upon reaching the shore, the Crucifix was returned to him by a crab with a curious cross pattern on its shell.  


     

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