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Traditional Catholic Faith => Catholic Living in the Modern World => Topic started by: de Lugo on December 17, 2022, 10:13:47 PM

Title: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: de Lugo on December 17, 2022, 10:13:47 PM

Pope Francis laicizes America’s best loved pro-life priest Fr. Frank Pavone
According to the pope's U.S. representative, the order for dismissal from the priesthood was a result of 'blasphemous communications on social media' and 'persistent disobedience of the lawful instructions of his diocesan bishop,' but Pavone said he had no knowledge of the Vatican's decision.
(https://www.lifesitenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/fr_p_good_hands-scaled-810x500.jpg)
Fr. Frank Pavon
e speaking at the 2019 HELP Crisis Pregnancy center fall dinnerStephen Kokx / LifeSiteNews


(LifeSiteNews (https://www.lifesitenews.com/)) — America’s best loved pro-life priest, Fr. Frank Pavone, the National Director of Priests for Life as well as the President of the National Pro-Life Religious Council, has apparently been laicized (dismissed from the priesthood) by order of Pope Francis.


Catholic News Agency (CNA) reported that a December 13 letter from the Pope’s representative in America –  Papal Nuncio Archbishop Christophe Pierre – sent to all bishops in America says that Fr. Pavone was laicized for “blasphemous communications on social media” and “persistent disobedience of the lawful instructions of his diocesan bishop.”

In a separate statement, the papal nuncio wrote that the Prefect of the Dicastery for the Clergy – the head of the Vatican’s department dealing with priests – said that there was “no possibility of appeal” of the decision.

“Father Pavone was given ample opportunity to defend himself in the canonical proceedings, and he was also given multiple opportunities to submit himself to the authority of his diocesan bishop,” explains a separate statement attached to Pierre’s letter. “It was determined that Father Pavone had no reasonable justification for his actions.”

According to CNA, which confirmed the letter with several bishops, the statement calls Fr. Pavone “Mr. Pavone.” “Since Priests for Life, Inc. is not a Catholic organization, Mr. Pavone’s continuing role in it as a lay person would be entirely up to the leadership of that organization,” the statement says.

The statement noted that the decision on the matter by the Dicastery for the Clergy was issued on November 9, but Fr. Pavone had not heard of the decision from the Vatican until CNA called him for comment.

Developing …

Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: de Lugo on December 17, 2022, 10:20:29 PM
"Blasphemous communications?"

Laicized for...disobedience???

I'll await more information before making a firm judgment, but at the moment, the message seems to be that even "conservative" BXVI-hermeneticists are not safe in the Bergoglian church.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on December 18, 2022, 05:14:16 AM
“Blasphemous communications”?   

Blasphemous to who God or wannabe god Bergolio?

Priests for Life was mild compared to most other priests and of course us.  
For priests for life ever mention the vax???

Lol

Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 18, 2022, 06:15:49 AM
This NYT articles suggests he may have been laicized, in part, for saying GD in a 2020 Twitter post.

Seems Francis has refrained from laicizing other clerics for MUCH worse that this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/18/us/vatican-removes-anti-abortion-leader-priesthood.html

Supposing this, and disobedience to the Bishop of Amarillo, were the reasons, a laicization seems way out of proportion (you could possibly make an argument for suspension, but laicization?).

Unless there’s more to the story, the seething hatred for life (look at Francis’s recent appointments to the Pontifical Academy for Life!), seems to be manifesting itself in parallel to his contempt for Tradition.

But a bought and paid for hierarchy let him persist, so they are punished by their inaction.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 18, 2022, 07:17:55 AM
Quote from: SeanJohnson on December 18, 2022, 06:15:49 AM
This NYT articles suggests he may have been laicized, in part, for saying GD in a 2020 Twitter post.

Depending on the context, GD may not be blasphemous.  God does in fact damn (condemn) both people and things.  It would not necessarily be blasphemy to refer to an abortionist as GDed.  In any case, peanuts compared to the crimes of Peℓσѕι and Biden, who continue to be Catholics in good standing with Bergoglio.

According to Salza, of course, Pavone is not a Catholic priest now, while Peℓσѕι and Biden are still Catholics.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 18, 2022, 07:19:11 AM
Using GD at best would call for a public rebuke, and Bergoglio does worse on a daily basis.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 18, 2022, 07:23:59 AM
Looking it up, he referred to Biden with GD ... which I hold to be factually correct.  That man is damned by God (in the sense of condemned).  Not irrevocably, of course, since there’s time for him to repent, but damned nonetheless until such a time.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: AMDGJMJ on December 18, 2022, 07:32:29 AM
Maybe Matthew or someone who lives in Texas can look him up and suggest he join the traditional Catholic movement...  :cowboy:
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 18, 2022, 07:44:41 AM
I’m wondering if BXVI’s 2009 measure is coming into play here?  I speculated at the time that it could be used punitively to eliminate tradition-minded priests who were at odds with their more modernist bishops (eg., A priest who converts to Tradition and becomes independent is, on that account, accused of abandoning his ministry or engaging in scandalous behavior, which triggers the measures described below at the 5-year mark):


June 3, 2009
https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/congregation-can-more-easily-laicize-priests 

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict XVI has granted the Congregation for Clergy new powers to dismiss from the priesthood and release from the obligation of celibacy priests who are living with women, who have abandoned their ministry for more than five years or who have engaged in seriously scandalous behavior.
The new powers do not apply to cases involving the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors by a priest; those cases continue to be subject to special rules and procedures overseen by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

The new faculties were announced by Cardinal Claudio Hummes, prefect of the clergy congregation, in an April 18 letter to the world's bishops. Catholic News Service obtained a copy of the letter in early June.
Cardinal Hummes told CNS June 3 that the new, quicker administrative procedure for dismissing priests was prompted by "many situations where canon law did not seem adequate for meeting new problems."
As an example, the cardinal said the 1983 Code of Canon Law made no provision for a bishop to initiate a process to laicize a priest who had abandoned his ministry.
Usually when a priest leaves the ministry of his own accord, he informs his bishop and sooner or later will request a formal dispensation from the obligation of celibacy, the cardinal said.
But others "leave, they marry [in a civil ceremony], they have children. In these cases, the bishops did not have a way to proceed because it was up to the person who left," he said.
"But if the one who left is not interested (in regularizing his situation), the good of the church and the good of the priest who left is that he be dispensed so that he would be in a correct situation, especially if he has children," the cardinal said.
Cardinal Hummes said a priest's "children have the right to have a father who is in a correct situation in the eyes of God and with his own conscience. So helping these people is one of the reasons there are new procedures. In these cases, the initiative begins with the bishop."
The cardinal said he did not have statistics on how many priests have abandoned their ministry without seeking laicization, but it was a problem bishops have raised with the congregation.
Cardinal Hummes' letter to the world's bishops said that while the church teaches that properly performed sacraments are valid whether or not the priest officiating is living in a situation of holiness, the discipline of the Latin-rite Catholic Church is to insist that priests strive for moral perfection and to imitate Christ, who was chaste.
"The church, being the spouse of Jesus Christ, wishes to be loved in the total and exclusive manner with which Jesus Christ loved her as her head and spouse. Priestly celibacy is, therefore, the gift of oneself in and with Christ to his church, and expresses the service of the priest to the church in and with the Lord," the cardinal wrote.
"The vast majority of priests live out their priestly identity daily with serenity and exercise faithfully their proper ministry," he wrote, but when situations of scandal arise a bishop must be able to act quickly and firmly.
The cardinal's letter dealt separately with the situation of priests who simply abandoned their ministry for "a period of more than five consecutive years." It also addressed the more serious cases of those priests who have attempted or contracted a civil marriage, are having a consensual sɛҳuąƖ relationship with a woman or have violated another church or moral law in a way that caused serious scandal.
"Situations of grave lack of discipline on the part of some clergy have occurred in which the attempts to resolve the problems by the pastoral and canonical means foreseen in the Code of Canon Law are shown to be insufficient or unsuitable to repair scandal, to restore justice or to reform the offender," the letter said.
In every case, however, Cardinal Hummes' letter insisted that the local bishop carry out a careful investigation of the facts and, when the evidence confirms wrongdoing, "he should proceed formally to correct or admonish the accused."
"Yet when this does not suffice to repair the scandal, restore justice and bring about the rehabilitation of the person, the bishop should proceed with the imposition of penalties," the letter said, outlining the obligatory steps to be taken.
At every stage of the process, the cardinal told CNS: "The right of a priest to defend himself is sacred, including in these cases. The right to defend oneself is internationally recognized and always preserved."
Prior to Pope Benedict's approval of the new norms Jan. 30, bishops seeking to dismiss a priest for abandoning the ministry or attempting marriage had to initiate a formal juridical trial against the person.
In the interview, Cardinal Hummes said that although the procedures have been streamlined, "each case will be reviewed individually, including with the aim of ensuring that the rights of the person interested were protected."
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: 2Vermont on December 18, 2022, 08:16:54 AM
Something off about this report....
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: SimpleMan on December 18, 2022, 10:04:30 AM
Quote from: Ladislaus on December 18, 2022, 07:19:11 AM
Using GD at best would call for a public rebuke, and Bergoglio does worse on a daily basis.
There are people who can't open their mouths without saying GD every other word.  

It's not a good thing, but there are things that are far worse.  Some people are just crude.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: SeanJohnson on December 18, 2022, 10:34:11 AM
Backlash:


Say NO to Pope Francis removing pro-life hero Fr. Frank Pavone from priesthood
We've had enough of attacks on good priests while bad priests are promoted to the heights of the hierarchy. Have you?
(https://www.lifesitenews.com/cdn-cgi/mirage/00e608107659e9253188f647f8ec1f62ce93b049fdd47a4db72fa3eb053adf38/1280/cdn-cgi/mirage/00e608107659e9253188f647f8ec1f62ce93b049fdd47a4db72fa3eb053adf38/1280/https://www.lifesitenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Fr._Frank_Pavone_March_for_Life_2018-810x500.jpg)Fr. Frank Pavone at the National Prayer Service on January 19, 2018 in Washington D.C.John-Henry Westen / LifeSiteNews


LifeSite (https://www.lifesitenews.com/author/)

(LifeSiteNews (https://www.lifesitenews.com/)) — LifeSiteNews was shocked to learn that Father Frank Pavone, the National Director of Priests for Life, has been dismissed from the priesthood.
To add to our feelings of outrage, Fr. Pavone himself had no idea that this had happened until a reporter called him for comment.

In response, LifeSiteNews has launched a petition (https://lifepetitions.com/petition/breaking-pope-francis-laicizes-fr-frank-pavone-cancelling-america-s-best-loved-pro-life-priest)in which you may say “NO” to Pope Francis on this unprecedented attack on the pro-life movement and the Catholic Church in the USA.
— Article continues below Petition —
BREAKING: Pope Francis laicizes Fr. Frank Pavone, cancelling America’s best loved pro-life priest
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Given all the rhetoric we have heard during the first year of the so-called Synod on Synodality, it is clear that the “listening Church” is making a mockery of justice.
Here’s what we know so far: Catholic News Agency reports that a December 13 letter to all bishops in America, sent from the Pope’s representative in America – the Papal Nuncio Fr. Christophe Pierre – says that Fr. Pavone was laicized for “blasphemous communications on social media” and “persistent disobedience of the lawful instructions of his diocesan bishop.”
Faithful Bishop Joseph Strickland of Tyler, Texas has a response to that:
“The blasphemy is that this holy priest is canceled while an evil president promotes the denial of truth & the murder of the unborn at every turn, Vatican officials promote immorality & denial of the deposit of faith & priests promote gender confusion devastating lives…evil,” he said on Twitter.


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In a separate statement, the papal nuncio wrote that the Prefect of the Dicastery for the Clergy – the head of the Vatican’s department dealing with priests – said that there was “no possibility of appeal” of the decision.
This, during a week in which Pope Francis is receiving criticism for his lenient behavior towards Slovenian priest-artist—and alleged sɛҳuąƖ abuser—Fr. Marko Ivan Rupnik. This, in the midst of never-ending scandals–financial, moral, and theological–involving  Vatican-based prelates like suspected embezzler Cardinal Giovanni Angelo Becciu and the egregious president of the once great Pontifical Academy for Life, Cardinal Vincenzo Paglia. This, while clerical heretics attempt to destroy the Catholic faith in Germany from within.
This, this is beyond belief.
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We’re not going to stand for this spiritual rape of Fr. Pavone, and we ask you to read Fr. Pavone’s story and join us in our protest by signing our new petition. (https://lifepetitions.com/petition/breaking-pope-francis-laicizes-fr-frank-pavone-cancelling-america-s-best-loved-pro-life-priest)
We’ve had enough of attacks on good priests while bad priests are promoted to the heights of the hierarchy. Have you?




Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 18, 2022, 12:44:41 PM
Well, it would be nice if more the "conservative Novus Ordite" crowd would turn on Bergoglio ... and this is one way to do it.

McCarrick was known by the Vatican to have been sodomizing and raping seminarians for nearly a decade (more likely since 2000) before he was finally laicized ... and that was only because +Vigano blew the whistle on them.  Otherwise he would still be behind some desk at the Vatican continuing to sodomize young men.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 05:58:24 AM
I tell you what- 
considering who The Vatican doesn't laicize (Like Homo Martin), Fr Pavone should never have been targeted.....

BUT Fr Pavone did do one thing , that if not blasphemous, was highly irregular and improperly dramatic.
 He placed a dead aborted baby on the Altar during NO Mass. I understand the intention completely but I'm pretty sure it was a desecration. I would be more upset if I had any confidence in the validity of the NO Mass, but still, if you hold the NO consecration as valid this was very wrong.

Of course, I doubt this was the reason he was laicized as Bergoglio put actual dirt from the Amazon on the altar- also a beachball.
I'm sure Pavone was targeted because he was so politically involved with the Trump campaign (s)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/modify_inline.gif)




Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 06:05:22 AM
Sorry Father Pavone DID NOT put the aborted baby on the altar during NO Mass- he DID put the baby on the altar for a video in 2016- presumably for the election of the pro-life candidate.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 19, 2022, 06:22:30 AM
Quote from: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 06:05:22 AM
Sorry Father Pavone DID NOT put the aborted baby on the altar during NO Mass- he DID put the baby on the altar for a video in 2016- presumably for the election of the pro-life candidate.

He said later that it was a table, but with the Novus Ordo (of course) you can't tell.

Despite this blatantly unjust laicization action, he's still carrying water for Bergoglio ... and in that case he deserves what he gets.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 06:52:35 AM
 He was vested like it was a Mass- but I apologize if I was not correct and it was just a table. My bad.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 07:03:59 AM
QuickPod: Fr. Pavone Put What on His Altar? | Padre Peregrino (https://www.padreperegrino.org/2022/12/fr-pavone-put-what-altar/)
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Ladislaus on December 19, 2022, 07:06:28 AM
Quote from: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 06:52:35 AM
He was vested like it was a Mass- but I apologize if I was not correct and it was just a table. My bad.

See, he thinks he's doing good by not calling out Jorge Bergoglio, but Bergoglio needs to be called out, and he could have done a great service toward waking people up had he denounced him.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: 2Vermont on December 19, 2022, 07:09:53 AM
I don't see the actual statements posted/linked in this thread so far, so here they are:

Letter from Apostolic Nuncio of US:

pavone-letter.pdf (docuмentcloud.org) (https://s3.docuмentcloud.org/docuмents/23466013/pavone-letter.pdf)

Fr Pavone's Response:

Priests for Life Library: Fr. Frank Comments on Latest Developments (https://www.priestsforlife.org/library/9624-fr-frank-comments-on-latest-developments)

Novus Ordo Watch is updating this story here:

UPDATED: Vatican laicizes Rev. Frank Pavone of ‘Priests for Life’ Anti-Abortion Group – Novus Ordo Watch (https://novusordowatch.org/2022/12/vatican-defrocks-father-frank-pavone/)



Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Miser Peccator on December 19, 2022, 07:13:52 AM
Quote from: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 07:03:59 AM
QuickPod: Fr. Pavone Put What on His Altar? | Padre Peregrino (https://www.padreperegrino.org/2022/12/fr-pavone-put-what-altar/)
God bless Fr Nix, but he does have connections to Opus Dei and is still at this very late stage promoting Trump.

Trying to stop the genocide of babies by means of scalpel or suction

while actively promoting the genocide of babies by means of gene editing clot shot which is proven to cause miscarriages

as well as the ghoulish abortion derived testing during the production of the serum is

not congruent with Catholic teaching.

Both are evil and murderous.

One is NOT better than the other.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: BernardoGui on December 19, 2022, 07:26:59 AM
Quote from: Miser Peccator on December 19, 2022, 07:13:52 AM
God bless Fr Nix, but he does have connections to Opus Dei and is still at this very late stage promoting Trump.

Trying to stop the genocide of babies by means of scalpel or suction

while actively promoting the genocide of babies by means of gene editing clot shot which is proven to cause miscarriages

as well as the ghoulish abortion derived testing during the production of the serum is

not congruent with Catholic teaching.

Both are evil and murderous.

One is NOT better than the other.
I used to watch Fr Nix but it seems like he can't make it through one video without some boomer level take on politics or history, which usually involves a reference to nαzιs as the summit of all evil. He seems utterly clueless when it comes to the JQ. His better videos are just a summation of Lapide, which we can all read on our own.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 07:53:00 AM
Not supporting Fr Nix- he is NO- but posting his opinion of the altar subject
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: 2Vermont on December 19, 2022, 07:55:22 AM
Quote from: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 07:53:00 AM
Not supporting Fr Nix- he is NO- but posting his opinion of the altar subject
Yes.  I think his comments were informative about that despite the fact that he stated he would be "open to aborted children being martyrs" despite also saying that this was not the teaching of the Church for centuries.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: SimpleMan on December 19, 2022, 09:19:23 AM
Quote from: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 05:58:24 AM
I tell you what-
considering who The Vatican doesn't laicize (Like Homo Martin), Fr Pavone should never have been targeted.....

BUT Fr Pavone did do one thing , that if not blasphemous, was highly irregular and improperly dramatic.
 He placed a dead aborted baby on the Altar during NO Mass. I understand the intention completely but I'm pretty sure it was a desecration. I would be more upset if I had any confidence in the validity of the NO Mass, but still, if you hold the NO consecration as valid this was very wrong.

Of course, I doubt this was the reason he was laicized as Bergoglio put actual dirt from the Amazon on the altar- also a beachball.
I'm sure Pavone was targeted because he was so politically involved with the Trump campaign (s)
(https://www.cathinfo.com/Themes/DeepBlue/images/icons/modify_inline.gif)

His intent was probably similar to that of Emmett Till's mother, when she left his coffin open to show precisely what the lynch mob did to him.

Even if the young man did make a lewd suggestion to the lady shopkeeper (we'll never know), that does not justify killing him and tying his body to a piece of heavy machinery and dumping him in the river.  I think we all know that, just stating the fact.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: josefamenendez on December 19, 2022, 09:48:57 AM
I realize the intent. It's good. What I was worried about was desecration of the altar of Sacrifice/Consecration
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on December 19, 2022, 09:58:24 AM
Most of the novus order is mostly boomer women and young immigrants with their own Mass. 

Many of these people are good Catholics but poorly catechized.  

Then there are the mostly feminist boomers who are narcissists who embrace mortal sins as the norm. 
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: confederate catholic on December 21, 2022, 05:40:37 AM
He was clear that it wasn't an altar but he said he said mass on it? 

This is mass? 

I don't get how this is some great priest
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: Cera on December 21, 2022, 01:01:04 PM
Quote from: 2Vermont on December 19, 2022, 07:55:22 AM
Yes.  I think his comments were informative about that despite the fact that he stated he would be "open to aborted children being martyrs" despite also saying that this was not the teaching of the Church for centuries.
I'm curious about the basis of what you say. Please elaborate on the centuries-long teaching of the Church on aborted babies.
Title: Re: Bergoglio Sends Message: Nowhere to Hide!
Post by: 2Vermont on December 21, 2022, 03:46:32 PM
Quote from: Cera on December 21, 2022, 01:01:04 PM
I'm curious about the basis of what you say. Please elaborate on the centuries-long teaching of the Church on aborted babies.
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