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Author Topic: Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven  (Read 2786 times)

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Offline MrsZ

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  • I was raised in the world by a couple of hippie atheist/new age type parents.  I was baptised Orthodox because of my maternal grandparents.

    I married my H in 1990 after 5 years of worldly "dating."  My H was a Novus Ordo kum-bye-yah Catholic ...

    I contracepted from the beginning.  Then my mother died a month before our second daughter was born.  We were struggling financially and I was in a state of desperation and devastation with the death, the money problems ...

    My solution?  Tubal ligation in 1994 at the age of 27.  My H didn't put up a fight and I went through with it.  

    Then God began to work on me ... I eventually became a Catholic in 2000.  

    Now what?  I read over and over how sinful sterilization is ... I hate to give the appearance of the typical modern nuclear family, the 2 kids only.

    I've confessed this sin and been absolved.  

    But other than the shame and regret that I have to live with my whole life ... what are my H and supposed to do?  Not have relations because we are permanently contracepting?

    And I just finished reading another blog entry that was put on this site ... that describes contracepting as equivalent to sodomy.  Basically sex cut off from it's purpose other than the using of the each other for "pleasure."

    I am at fault for making this decision ... My decision meant that my H would never have more children (with me) ... am I now to cut him off from relations as well?

    I agree with all of you who attack contraception but what is your advice for one who has already done the damage and is now forever a mutilated, half a woman ?


    Offline Raoul76

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #1 on: April 26, 2010, 10:07:45 PM »
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  • Being the site's resident anti-NFP gadfly, I will now surprise the CathInfo-reading masses ( all four of them ) with what may seem like liberalism.

    You had it done before you knew that it was wrong.  You committed a sin and bear responsibility but it was done before you were Catholic and so is greatly, greatly mitigated.  Your baptism wiped this sin away although you should still feel badly about it, and from your wrenching last paragraph it sounds like you do.  Your contrition is clearly sincere.

    Your husband however, who was at least a nominal Catholic at the time, bears most of the guilt for not stopping you, in my view.  It would be fitting for HIM to devote himself to celibacy for the rest of his life.  You should bring this up to him and tell him that you feel God wants you to be celibate from now on, but do it in a way that is beseeching rather than demanding, giving him the choice.  Don't drive him away by being gloomy and morbid.  Don't go around in a hairshirt moaning about your mistake.  Just tell him matter-of-factly that you think it is the best thing to do to atone for the past, but make it clear you are willing to accept his final decision and that there is no resentment on your end.

    If he doesn't want to be celibate, that's his problem, not yours, and if he asks for the marriage debt, you not only should but must provide.  The key is to keep the family together.  Try to maneuver him slowly towards celibacy while giving him his due maritally i.e. act warmly towards him.  I've seen you here bashing his gambling and bashing him in general and you should stop all of that.  Be patient with him.  Make St. Monica your patron saint and read about her life.


    That is just a layman's advice, mind you; talk this over with your priest or "priest."  Where do you stand on the spectrum, you go to a traditional Mass but are still within Vatican II?  
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.


    Offline Raoul76

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #2 on: April 26, 2010, 10:14:02 PM »
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  • P.S. You talk about your kids being disappointed in their father, your husband, but that may be because you are poisoning them against him.  He is the head of the family and should be treated with respect, whatever his faults.  Be careful about making him out to be a loser in the eyes of his own children.
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Alex

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #3 on: April 26, 2010, 10:51:30 PM »
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  • The Church teaches that a couple can get married even if one of the spouses is infertile. But they cannot get married if the husband is impotent since he cannot perform the conjugal act at all. Therefore, if you are infertile, you can still have sɛҳuąƖ relations with your husband. Having made yourself infertile is another issue- which you say you have already confessed to, so you have been forgiven for that.

    Offline MrsZ

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 12:01:50 PM »
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  • Raoul76 - you have me mistaken for someone else.

    My H does not have a gambling problem and I have not engaged in "bashing" him for any reason.  The only thing that I have asked for help on is the fact that my H occasionally smokes marijuana and has only friends who are not Catholic and mostly aren't practicing Christians at all. I also have not talked to my children negatively about their father, and they do not know about his occasional use of marijuana.  I have been concerned that they would find out.  I have not poisoned them against him at all.

    I have tried to search my  posts under my user name to re-read what I've written that would have given you that impression of me ... but I don't know how to do that.  

    Since I know my H problems do not include gambling, I think you've mistaken me for someone else.

    The advice you and Alex have given seems to be the two "choices" if I have any choice at all in this matter.  Either celibacy as penance for the sin.  Or proceeding as if I were infertile .. as the sin itself has been purified by the confession and absolution that I've received.







    Offline MrsZ

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 12:03:11 PM »
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  • Re: Mass.


    We live hundreds of miles from the nearest traditional mass.  We have to attend a Novus Ordo parish in our neighborhood for our regular Sunday obligation.

    Offline sedetrad

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 02:37:47 PM »
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  • If you refuse the marriage debt, he will leave you and you both will be mortally sinning. You cannot deny him the marrige debt because you had a sterilization procedure.

    Offline Alexandria

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 02:50:25 PM »
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  • Mrs Z

    Why don't you talk to a priest about this?  Or make a novena to Our Lady for guidance?

    The internet is hardly the place to come to for solutions to personal problems.  It will only confuse you more.



    Offline sedetrad

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 03:26:23 PM »
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  • I was giving the cold harsh reality. She should talk toa  priest.

    Offline sedetrad

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 03:29:36 PM »
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  • I don't know any modern wordly man that would abide by enforced celibacy because his wife was sterilized. He would leave her for another woman and the "world" would be on his side because she would be deemed a nut. According to the Church, she also would not have the right to enforce this on him so she would look bad in both the eyes of the world and the Church.

    Offline treadingwater

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #10 on: April 27, 2010, 04:39:26 PM »
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  • Get it reversed.. You know it was wrong, you say have been forgiven, now correct the problem.
    http://www.tubalreversalusa.com/html/tubal_ligation.html


    Offline sedetrad

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #11 on: April 27, 2010, 04:42:03 PM »
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  • She may not have medical insurance and the procedure might financially burden her family. That would not be prudent. Of course if the above is not true, then get it reversed.

    Offline MrsZ

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #12 on: April 27, 2010, 07:00:15 PM »
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  • I agree that a face to face talk with a priest is superior to asking a question on the internet of a bunch of lay people.

    However, we live hundreds of miles from a Traditional Mass parish ... and I can't just call one of the priests on the phone to ask him about this .... at least I don't think I can.

    The N.O. priest we have here is a very nice man.  However, he doesn't think a lot of things are a very big deal.  For example he didn't think the sin of immodesty was that important.

    As far as a reversal goes .... I did look into that years ago ... it would cost a minimum of $10,000.  The "success" depends on the type of procedure done .... Mine was the most destructive possible (thanks Dr. M).  It is not covered by insurance.  It also increases the possibility of an ectopic pregnancy which causes the embryo to attach to the interior of the fallopian tube instead of the uterine wall.  The pregnancy cannot continue, and the mother and baby would die.

    I already have two children.  I felt that because of the cost, the risk, and the fact that I alread have two children who needed me during those still-fertile years, I opted not to try to have the procedure done (also, the procedures were being done by doctors in North Carolina and other places that were extremely far from our home .... and there would have been thousands more costs for travel expenses).

    These are not excuses.  They are well thought out reasons that I decided not to try to have this reversed.

    These verses I was thinking about:

    1 Cor 7:3

    "Let the husband render the debt to his wife: and the wife also in like manner to the husband."

    1 Cor 7:5

    "Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer: and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency."

    St. Paul doesn't make a distinction about the age of the wife and so it doesn't seem to matter whether she is fertile or not.  Now granted there's no situation that is like one who is intentionally infertile.  But apparently, an old, infertile wife is still suppose to render the marriage debt, even if it is impossible for the husband and wife to conceive.

    The other reason that I mentioned this problem on this forum is because so often you read people lambasting those who practice contraception.  

    And while I agree wholeheartedly that it is a grave evil.  Not all who've practiced this horrible act, can just undue it...stop doing it, simply and easily.  Obviously, the fact that I can't have any more children, has been the greatest pain and regre tof my life.  Not only for the bad I've done to our Lord, but also to myself, my husband and our children. I will live with the pain of this my whole life.

    The work of my Purgatory .... I remember reading a book called "The Great Magdalenes."  I was surprised to learn that even though these great, public sinners had confessed and been absolved, they still lived out the rest of their lives paying penance for their sins.  They dressed in rags, sold all their material possessions and gave the money to the poor, fasted and prayed and confessed regularly, and publicly announced their sinfulness to the public they'd previously scandalized.

    That was the first time I learned that being absolved in Confession didn't pay the debt.  My H thought that that was the case as well .... in the N.O. church that's the teaching.  

    I've told several people about what I've done to hope to help them to either not do the same, or to go to Confession for it ...

    I have to pay for this sin the rest of my life .... in real terms and in spiritual terms.

    Thank you for your prayers and help.

    God Bless,
    MrsZ

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #13 on: April 27, 2010, 10:09:56 PM »
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  • I was working on a response to you last night, but didn't finish.
    Today I return and see that someone has mentioned many of the things I was thinking ... it was YOU!
    It seems you already know the answers to your question, but I'll try and finish my response nonetheless.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Online Ladislaus

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    Being unable to rectify a sinful decision even though forgiven
    « Reply #14 on: April 27, 2010, 11:11:35 PM »
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  • In short, you are no longer actively, intentionally, and formally "practicing contraception".  So carry on just as if you had been rendered infertile due to circuмstances beyond your control.  Only refusal to reverse the procedure if there were a reasonable chance of success would prolong the formal aspect of the sin.  I think that many if not most of us have committed sins for which we cannot reverse the material or temporal consequences.  We can only abandon ourselves to Our Lord's Sacred Heart and plead for His Mercy.

    Now, the $10K is probably something you should offer up to God as a penance for your sin, and a heroic effort on your part would go a long way toward making satisfaction for even the temporal consequences of your sin.  So the question remains as to how little a chance there really might be of success.  I don't put much stock in the opinions of the medical establishment, and with God all things are possible.  Seek a second medical opinion, and speak to a priest.  Your distance from a Traditional priest should make no difference, since we now benefit from that marvel of modern technology known as the telephone.  I'm sure than any Traditional priest would be happy to speak with you about it, and the SSPX for instance has certain priests who specialize in so-called bioethical moral theology.  Many of us on this forum have connections with Traditional priests with whom we could facilitate contact.